104 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

ThatDawg, on 24 April 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

1) thats good to know

2) you realize the combination of words you used would allow an attorney to shred your statement.
The fact you CAN purchase an end game mech clearly indicates that you are bypassing the system.
Profit is not a crime-I hope pgi success, but claiming you are doing something for the "common man", or for the good of "those who can't spend the time", is precisely that, bypassing the system for money!
You can't say two and two is five no matter how its worded.
And hey, bravo, you guys do need a paycheck, but at least they should have the intestinal fortitude to be honest about it and not insult those of us who do take it seriously and buy founders packs, camo, hero mechs etc.
And again, my year old sig rings true.

You can buy an "end game" mech after finishing the cadet bonus with the money made from it anyway. And, as has been said repeatedly, you could always do this in a more round about fashion.

[MrWhite]

They could add a zero to the end of those C-bill numbers and I'd still say NOPE... why any of you would buy anything in this game that you can grind for free is beyond me... Save the MC and wait for sales. That's what I wish I did with all my founders MC... just play the game... have minimally viable fun... and enjoy the grind... mkay?

[Domenoth]

ThatDawg, on 24 April 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

The fact you CAN purchase an end game mech

I don't think this statement is accurate. You have end-game equipment maybe but you still have 0 XP on that chassis.

I think a large portion of the experienced population would agree that no basic and no elite efficiencies handicaps your performance noticeably. Now if you've spent tons of time on another 'Mech which gives you enough GXP to master your new 'Mech, that still means you had to play to get your complete set of end-game content.

Either way, the Cbill purchase alone is not enough to acquire an end-game 'Mech.

Edited by Domenoth, 24 April 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

If you go by PGI's numbers of an average of 80k cbills per match, add premium time for 50%; 300MC for one day of premium time and a few matches gets you more. Time vs. Convenience. *shrug*. Seems like a rather lackluster deal to me.

[IraqiWalker]

ThatDawg, on 24 April 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

well, at least finally they're out in the open about selling the game out for real money.

Totally explains the assaults slinging weapons with abandon I've seen lately- you know, a top tier mech acting like a guy who just downloaded the game?




Actually its EXACTLY the same.
When you grind a mech you learn it, you appreciate it, you understand it.
As I said in an earlier post, some nit BUYS an atlas DDC, and is typing in questions like "does ecm work", "whats the best mech" and a litany of other noob questions- meanwhile my lance got saddled with a character who clearly does NOT know whats going on.
come 3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-this will be a real pain in the ssa

That's more of a pay to lose then.

You're missing the definition of pay to win. Here's a good example of pay to win.

Any of the Facebook games you've seen around like Wartune, or Dawn of Dragons. THAT's pay to win, where if I play for free and someone else doesn't actually play the game and only gets real money equipment, it will take me more than a year after they've stopped playing, to get within their league.

In here, Pay to win would be mechs that start off with +20% movement speed, +30% armor, +30% damage, with weapons that can only be bought by MC such as PPCs that deal twice the damage at half the heat.

THAT is pay to win. What you have right now is pay to speed things up. Not pay to win.

The scenario you used is also WRONG, a cadet who has only played 25 matches, and mostly with non-atlas DDC mechs (there's no DDC trial mech) can buy a DDC right off the bat, they will ask the same questions when they first start piloting it.

Domenoth, on 24 April 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

I don't think this statement is accurate. You have end-game equipment maybe but you still have 0 XP on that chassis.

I think a large portion of the experienced population would agree that no basic and no elite efficiencies handicaps your performance noticeably. Now if you've spent tons of time on another 'Mech which gives you enough GXP to master your new 'Mech, that still means you had to play to get your complete set of end-game content.

Either way, the Cbill purchase alone is not enough to acquire an end-game 'Mech.

Bilbo, on 24 April 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

You can buy an "end game" mech after finishing the cadet bonus with the money made from it anyway. And, as has been said repeatedly, you could always do this in a more round about fashion.

Someone with the their head on straight, thank you for explaining it. Sorry you had to be number 5002481223455, to repeat the statement, let's hope it sticks this time.

Here's an excerpt from Roadbear's excellent thread on why you are wrong about things.

Point 9:

Roadbeer, on 13 April 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

9. Pay2Win:The latest form of monetization implemented has you completely apoplectic about how your pocket is being raided to be competitive.

Why you’re probably wrong: Take the money factor out of it for a second. Is there any way that the system can’t be countered in anyway by normal time sink means? Is there a free equivalent of it in the game that is close but not 100% equal to it? If the answer is yes to either of those questions, then shut up, it’s not P2W.

I’ve played P2W titles, where even if all the time sinks were removed, it would take close to a year to achieve the same power with what can be purchased with (insert X amount of ‘gold’ coins”). We’re not even close to that here.

Hope that drives the point home.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 24 April 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

Can we have a player driven auction house too?

[Caswallon]

Great now we know that somebody at PGI can't do basic maths. Long suspected but thanks for the proof! Honestly does NOBODY check this stuff before you put it live and make yourselves look even more foolish?

You have some great staff slaving away at this game then somebody authorises a "deal" far worse than buying and selling a Mech? And expect the player base to think it cool?

Goodgrief Charlie brown

[IraqiWalker]

Caswallon, on 24 April 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

Great now we know that somebody at PGI can't do basic maths. Long suspected but thanks for the proof! Honestly does NOBODY check this stuff before you put it live and make yourselves look even more foolish?

You have some great staff slaving away at this game then somebody authorises a "deal" far worse than buying and selling a Mech? And expect the player base to think it cool?

Goodgrief Charlie brown

I think the difference is the lack of need for Mechbays, if you're maxed out on Mechbays, you'd need to spend MC to get the mechbays and then buy and sell mechs, on the other hand with this one, you don't need mechbays.

Still not much better.

[Bongo TauKat]

Yeah. I have been pretty supportive of most PGI implementations (I am a more casual player I guess). But this seems kind of stupid. At those exchange rates, even having cash on hand for weapons and refits would not justify those ratios considering a few good battles will net me enough scratch for that shiny new gauss rifle and such.

[That Dawg]

IraqiWalker, on 24 April 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

That's more of a pay to lose then.

You're missing the definition of pay to win. Here's a good example of pay to win.



Hope that drives the point home.

OH!! I get it now, We can't pay to win, buy say buying an Atlass DDC, then the ecm and stuff. Cause that thing isn't researched out or anything, right? Got it.
-So we can't use that "real money" to buy things like modules, cool shots, arty accuracy then, whew. Yeah that stuff totally is pay for lose, for noobs. And stuff.
I guess I totally. did. not. understand.

Holy carp, I just got a GREAT idea for PGI!!
All ballistics use 'ammo' right? LRM's, SRM's too, right?
How about we have say, AP rounds (cheap), and HEAT rounds (can be bought with creds, like coolshots now) AND AND wait.......

.....wait for it.........

GOLD rounds, that are a combination of AP, and HEAT and...something else, like tipped with stupidonium, that really cores that *******!!
And they are only like...5MC each? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE???

[Roadbeer]

ThatDawg, on 25 April 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

<snip>

[That Dawg]

aw, roadbeer, whats next, banning?




fanbois are forever

[KingCobra]

I don't think MWO is PAY2WIN yet but it is getting close.I also see thousands of new World Of Tanks and WarThunder players buying high end tanks and planes + options die horribly because of lack of skill in the game.When MWO decides to let players buy high end special bullets or equipment that gives a new player a definite advantage over a skilled player you will know it has then become a PAY2WIN game.

As for PGI's or IGP's marketing strategy it has always been bad a much better strategy would have been to reasonably price everything in this game which most mechs and items would be 50% less than they are now.This should have been a standard pricing format 3 years ago. Old and new players would have bought more items overall and the players and the community would have known the $USD they were paying was worth the virtual items MWO had to offer.

But PGI/IGP are one company and they make terrible decision on marketing and pricing. Here is a shot of PGI/IGP's marketing department staff

Edited by KingCobra, 25 April 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[That Dawg]

Agreed, Its not important that its truly a pay to win situation, they simply must make someone THINK its a pay to win game, and suck them dry.
Hurts the game, hurts battles and there are a few reasons WOT is double the size of this game.
Balance- those high end tanks have limited options what can be swapped around. I got a type 59 weeks after it came out a couple of years ago, and you are stuck with the set up, crew gets more experience, but the guns remain the same, eh?

[IraqiWalker]

ThatDawg, on 25 April 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Snipped for lack of brain cells

Do you even understand the words you are putting on this screen, or what people re saying to you?

Have you tried reading and thinking?

[boostedude]

Not too sure why I am posting here, seems like no one with any real sway in development or fanbase reads it. Just to say:

1- I play this game less and less for reasons like this. Insulting to think you can buy and sell a Mech and benefit more than what is presented in theses bundles.

2- Some are saying this is not pay to win... I feel like paying money to bypass the ''time consuming'' part of the game. (AKA the fun) is exactly that. And when i see a Boars Head playing that does not know how to unlock arms or cycle weapons...

3- I bought some MC after the free TDR... i thought maybe you guys were making some positive changes. Hugely regret giving you any money at this point. But you dont care... you have my money and at the end of the day that is about all that matters to you and its apparent.

4- My advice would be grab all the money you can now as your fanbase is quickly diminishing.

/rant

[That Dawg]

IraqiWalker, on 25 April 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Do you even understand the words you are putting on this screen, or what people re saying to you?

Have you tried reading and thinking?

Clearly you are unaware of what the majority are thinking, I'm guessing you're one of those "fanbois" I've read about

[IraqiWalker]

boostedude, on 25 April 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

2- Some are saying this is not pay to win... I feel like paying money to bypass the ''time consuming'' part of the game. (AKA the fun) is exactly that. And when i see a Boars Head playing that does not know how to unlock arms or cycle weapons...

That's a regular free to play model. Every proper free to play game has this to one degree or another.

However, actual pay to win means you get things that can only be unlocked with MC and not C-Bills and are extremely more powerful than the C-Bill variant (like the example of a PPC that deals 3 times the damage, for almost as much heat as a regular one, and doesn't have the 90M minimum range.) The best game out there in terms of free to play is League of Legends, and even their model allows me to unlock champions with real money, something I can do by grinding the in-game currency as well.


As far as the Boar's Head comment goes, plenty of people buy Hero mechs as a way of supporting the game, and getting something that eases the grind, sometimes very early in their MW:O career. Are you telling me you were a perfect pilot from day one? You didn't need to train and play to figure out how the game works, and how your mech functions?

Everyone has to start somewhere, and your comment itself proves that it's not pay to win, because that pilot in the BH isn't going to kill others and deal crazy damage while being inexperienced, skill and experience is how you win, not with a big mech.

Case and point, I've killed every meta build out there, and practically every variant of every chassis with my measly Commando 2D, I played lots of matches with it and learned how the mech functions to the point where I can do that. No one is going to perform the same way with a mech they just got.

ThatDawg, on 25 April 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

Clearly you are unaware of what the majority are thinking, I'm guessing you're one of those "fanbois" I've read about

No, I'm aware, I just use my brain cells.

Also, I'm not defending the packages and saying they're good, it's a terrible exchange rate. I'm disproving the opinion held by /some/ people that the game is Pay2Win now. I shared that opinion for all of 5 minutes, you can even scroll back a few pages and find my original post in this thread where I even say "I'm losing hope", then I did the math, and realized that it's nowhere near what pay to win is.

[LoeKie]

It offers Choice to People.

If you do not like it... DO NOT USE IT!!!

[xJohnWolf]

I did some math comparing the cost of cbills in mc vs the value of mechs vs the game time played to gain the same cbills. Some interesting results. This post was copied from the patch notes section and given it's own thread because I wanted other people to be able to benefit from the work that I did to come up with these figures...


Here is the math:
1,100,000 @ 800 = 1375 cb/mc
2,400,000 @ 1600 = 1500 cb/mc
6,500,000 @ 4000 = 1625 cb/mc = OR 30% off 6,500,000 @ 2800 = 2321 cb/mc

Grid Iron Currently on sale 50% off
2,939,112 @ 1875 = 1567 cb/mc
Jester while on sale 50% off
2,851,757 @ 2437 = 1170 cb/mc

Atlas K (For example)
13,691,066/2 @ 5480 = 1249 cb/mc
30% off
6,845,533 @ 3836 = 1784 cb/mc

Locust 1V
1,388,242/2 @ 560 = 1239 cb/mc
30% off
694,121 @ 392 = 1770 cb/mc

Champions - CBill Sell value @ MC cost
SDR-5K(C) - 2636258 @ 1235 = 2134 cb/mc -BEST!
JR7-F(C) - 3067911 @ 1450 = 2115 cb/mc -BEST!
CDA-2A(C) - 3551523 @ 1600 = 2219 cb/mc -BEST! <---- TOP DEAL
BJ-1(C) - 3016837 @ 1695 = 1779 cb/mc - Better!
HBK-4P(C) - 1981946 @ 1800 = 1101 cb/mc
CN9-A(C) - 2075946 @ 1850 = 1122 cb/mc
DRG-5N(C) - 4066139 @ 2550 = 1594 cb/mc
CPLT-A1(C) - 2757257 @ 2790 = 988 cb/mc ------- OUCH!
CTF-3D(C) - 3115394 @ 4945 = 630 cb/mc ------- OUCH x2! <---- WORST
VTR-9S(C) - 5522115 @ 3725 = 1482 cb/mc
STK-3F(C) - 5822239 @ 3815 = 1526 cb/mc
HGN-733C(C)- 4367794 @ 4335 = 1007 cb/mc
AS7-RS(C) - 4983988 @ 4685 = 1063 cb/mc

Original post here:
http://mwomercs.com/...e-is-math-here/

Conclusion: C-bill bundles aren't worth the MC. Use standard mechs while they are on sale... or the Cicada champion.

Edited by xNoSkillz, 25 April 2014 - 05:55 PM.