147 replies to this topic

[heimdelight]

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

I see...I guess I still wonder why the default Lord culture, which people adhere to closely or loosely, comes across as that which I described: seemingly less interested in building the MWO community than tearing people down?

@Adiuvo I mean, you play together constantly, under a unified name, etc. Heimdal's sig says "Competitive unit: House of Lords" and by unit I think he means team. HoL is listed as a team in SJR's recent Reddit ranking of teams...etc.

Either way, your not-team then has a very vocal minority that speaks for all of you. And I know you all don't care what people's perception of you is...I'm just curious why the shit-attitude comes through and whatever altruistic efforts you make seem invisible.

The altruistic efforts are somewhat invisible because of the bias and stereotype as to what the House of Lords is in itself. While it's easy to label the community as "HoL", it's not as easy for HoL to act as a whole in regards to the community. One member's actions does not represent another's, and that's simply the nature of the community. While I occasionally ggclose and say LORD HEIMDELIGHT, and troll, when things are serious and someone else's time needs to be respected I don't mind cutting the bullshit and helping someone out or trying to mend a burned bridge. I've found that most people don't really care that I hang around or play with the Lords, and those who stereotype me and assume so much are actually a minority. Even recently, I made a video for someone explaining how to jumpjet very well only using 1JJ, and they gave me a month worth of reddit gold because of it. The efforts are definitely not invisible.

[TygerLily]

heimdelight, on 02 May 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

The altruistic efforts are somewhat invisible because of the bias and stereotype as to what the House of Lords is in itself. While it's easy to label the community as "HoL", it's not as easy for HoL to act as a whole in regards to the community. One member's actions does not represent another's, and that's simply the nature of the community. While I occasionally ggclose and say LORD HEIMDELIGHT, and troll, when things are serious and someone else's time needs to be respected I don't mind cutting the bullshit and helping someone out or trying to mend a burned bridge. I've found that most people don't really care that I hang around or play with the Lords, and those who stereotype me and assume so much are actually a minority. Even recently, I made a video for someone explaining how to jumpjet very well only using 1JJ, and they gave me a month worth of reddit gold because of it. The efforts are definitely not invisible.

Well, I'll tell you the truth. I've always enjoyed playing with/against you, ghostbear, AC, etc. but I was sort of disappointed to see you affiliated with HoL on the Mercstar server...but this convo is enlightening - meaning I was probably judgemental to feel that way.... Why do you not say "LORD HEIMDELIGHT...here's how you build a good brawler, new guy"? Ya'll need a ****** PR guy...

Edited by TygerLily, 02 May 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[heimdelight]

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

So, I still have the question: why does it seem the majority of persons-who-comprise-HoL seem less interested in building the MWO community than tearing people down? Why is there no "Skill of HoL plus MWO patriot of Koniving" people? Doesn't it benefit HoL for MWO to have a good community?

Just the way things ended up. Some like-minded people got together and what they agree on ranges and varies on many things. There are definitely members of HoL who care about the game and the community. Speaking for myself as a moderator/event coord on ComStar NA (which hasn't had an event for a bit, since UI2.0!), I've spent hours and hours and days and days doing Scrambles, pickup 12s, big events with Deveopers showing up, doing screw-around builds and having a lot of fun.

I still do that stuff from time to time, but I am a competitive player at heart and if that is what I'm currently focusing on, the best way for me to help someone is advise how to play competitively. Without the community, HoL wouldn't matter, none of this would.

[heimdelight]

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

Well, I'll tell you the truth. I've always enjoyed playing with/against you, ghostbear, AC, etc. but I was sort of disappointed to see you affiliated with HoL on the Mercstar server...but this convo is enlightening - meaning I was probably judgemental to feel that way.... Why do you not say "LORD HEIMDELIGHT...here's how you build a good brawler, new guy"? Ya'll need a ****** PR guy...

Because I say, "glhf" 99.9% of the time. And if I say LORD HEIMDELIGHT/ggclose, it's accompanied by a, "glhf" and a, "gg" at the end. I've never spoken to anyone in this community with ill intentions to bring them down to a point where it hurts the community as a whole, and I actively try to avoid being condescending or elitist. Like I said, if anyone has any questions regarding anything I'm more than willing to answer them or help them out. If someone wants to pass on my advice or getting to know me because I play with the Lords is entirely their choice, they have the right to assume, but assumption comes at the cost of being dead-wrong.

[TygerLily]

heimdelight, on 02 May 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Without the community, HoL wouldn't matter, none of this would.

That a very great thing to hear... To be honest, they come across as feeling quite the opposite about the 99%...

Maybe you don't intend to seem elitist, etc. But other Lords are setting perception...you know what they say: perception is reality. Maybe it's just stupid wording by why not "LORD HEIMDELIGHT glhf"...you see how attaching those two would go a long way toward expressing how "the rest" of the Lords say they feel??

I'm not one to ragequit, I don't get worked up over losses, I hold my own in feeling competitive in gameplay. But I am one who's dealing with my own life shit, like everyone, and it's disheartening to log-on to a game, trying to unwind...and not find a community of friends but to be met with seeming jerks...it's hard to enjoy anything like that. Maybe I'm just a dirty hippy...

Edited by TygerLily, 02 May 2014 - 04:58 PM.

[Adiuvo]

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

That a very great thing to hear... To be honest, they come across as feeling quite the opposite about the 99%...

Maybe you don't intend to seem elitist, etc. But other Lords are setting perception...you know what they say: perception is reality. Maybe it's just stupid wording by why not "LORD HEIMDELIGHT glhf"...you see how attaching those two would go a long way toward expressing how "the rest" of the Lords say they feel??

I'm not one to ragequit, I don't get worked up over losses, I hold my own in feeling competitive in gameplay. But I am one who's dealing with my own life shit, like everyone, and it's disheartening to log-on to a game, trying to unwind...and not find a community of friends but to be met with seeming jerks...it's hard to enjoy anything like that. Maybe I'm just a dirty hippy...

I think you're confusing what a few people do with what everyone else does.

The MWO community is small enough that you can look at people individually. It's stupid to paint everyone with the same brush here. If you think someone is causing a community problem then it's relatively easy to isolate that.

Most Lords don't even interact in the forums/reddit besides maybe liking stuff. I'm also not sure what you want regarding community interaction. We have a few streamers, I answer questions when I can, Villz has made tutorial videos... this is about the same level as what other units have done. Largely it's pointless due to the amount of bad advice floating around here, especially in the new player forum, but a few of us make the effort anyways.

Edited by Adiuvo, 02 May 2014 - 05:32 PM.

[Eglar]

Heim, stop screwing in the forums, our 4-men meta premade can't launch when you're not here.

[heimdelight]

Eglar, on 02 May 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

Heim, stop screwing in the forums, our 4-men meta premade can't launch when you're not here.

My VPN was too strong and kept me at 400 ping, I'm sorry I had to leave you guys earlier D: Comcast needed a short talking to and everything is fine now. My VPN now floats me at 25 ping again instead of the usual 15.

[TygerLily]

Adiuvo, on 02 May 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

I think you're confusing what a few people do with what everyone else does.

The MWO community is small enough that you can look at people individually. It's stupid to paint everyone with the same brush here. If you think someone is causing a community problem then it's relatively easy to isolate that.

Most Lords don't even interact in the forums/reddit besides maybe liking stuff. I'm also not sure what you want regarding community interaction. We have a few streamers, I answer questions when I can, Villz has made tutorial videos... this is about the same level as what other units have done. Largely it's pointless due to the amount of bad advice floating around here, especially in the new player forum, but a few of us make the effort anyways.

You're right and I've already readily admitted it was judgmental...

I think I just find it contradictory that HoL will announce themselves, individually, in a game which is an act of solidarity. Then, when I'm asking about why they do it, I'm told there is no solid "they". I'm saying, if it's individuals, you have a few that are representing the whole very negatively. Maybe it's not fair or ideal to extrapolate that out as representative of the whole group...but that's the way the world works. People think Christians are anti-science, bigoted, etc. when, in truth, it's likely that Westboro and their ilk are the vocal minority informing mass opinion...as an example.

I'm not prescribing HoL "do this" or "do that more"...it sounds as if you do a lot...but if the more amicable HoL players don't make their efforts known and attach it to their name the there is nothing but what we perceive to inform our opinions of you. Again, the adage is, perception is reality. In a sense, it doesn't matter what your heart is for the community when by-and-large people's interaction with you is very negative due to a small few...

Edited by TygerLily, 02 May 2014 - 08:24 PM.

[R Razor]

Adiuvo, on 02 May 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

I think you're confusing what a few people do with what everyone else does.

Like it or not, we are all judged by the company we keep.........something to keep in mind when your associates start acting like ******** in the game.

[TygerLily]

R Razor, on 02 May 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Like it or not, we are all judged by the company we keep.........something to keep in mind when your associates start acting like ******** in the game.

Exactly, I know HoL can't "police their members" as you're aren't a unit with policy. But you can't complain when you're branded with them when you announce a match with them and speak for the group, as you do here on this thread. It seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too...to take an antisocial part in the community but then not have to take the blame...IMO.

Maybe some of you should talk to your friends...

Edited by TygerLily, 02 May 2014 - 07:33 PM.

[TygerLily]

I have another question for HoL and all the "top tier players"...

Want to play stock Mechs with us? If you wanted to join in anonymously - so we don't judge you - you could start an alt, grind 25 matches and scoop up a stock Mech for our Stock Mech Mondays...may I suggest the Griffin-1N?

Edited by TygerLily, 02 May 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[heimdelight]

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

Exactly, I know HoL can't "police their members" as you're aren't a unit with policy. But you can't complain when you're branded with them when you announce a match with them and speak for the group, as you do here on this thread. It seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too...to take an antisocial part in the community but then not have to take the blame...IMO.

Maybe some of you should talk to your friends...

The realistic perspective of this situation is that there is no avoiding that we are related because of the House of Lords. If there is one single thing that brings us together (LORD _________, ggclose) that overshadows the many good things each member has done for the community, it seems the members of the community are thirsty for their own success in some form against the small amounts of trolling.

Anti-Social? I'm a little lost, here. Some of us are extroverts, some are introverts. To each their own, just like anything else in life. Majority of us regularly drop with a wide pool of players in the community, and are willing to engage in polite conversation when asked to do so.

I don't feel any inclination to take action in, "talking to my friends" when people simply make assumptions such as:

1. HoL uses cheats
2. HoL are all ********
3. HoL are anti-social
4. HoL don't care about the community

Those statements are so generalizing and wrong to assume that it asserts my belief that policing the members of HoL isn't necessary, the community needs to take action and stop assuming so much about us. I know personally I've spent a lot of time helping out the community, and so have others in HoL. People choose to be blind to those things because of their assumptions, that's their issue, not ours.

Trust me, I care about the community, but I, like many others, play this game for my own enjoyment first before anyone else's. If other people's enjoyment is on my agenda, which it is majority of the time (no one seems to have any major issues with me), than my enjoyment stems from other people's enjoyment and community interaction.

If competitive play is on my agenda, I can only help the community through those means. I want enjoyment out of competitive play, and the House of Lords is fantastic because it's just about getting together and pushing ourselves to defeat the best teams out there in a team environment rather than a public matchmaker queue. I don't have to join any unit, no obligations, and I get to play on arguably the best competitive MWO team and transfer advice to others from it.

But yeah, I don't deserve to be treated like everyone else does

[heimdelight]

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

I have another question for HoL and all the "top tier players"...

Want to play stock Mechs with us? If you wanted to join in anonymously - so we don't judge you - you could start an alt, grind 25 matches and scoop up a stock Mech for our Stock Mech Mondays...may I suggest the Griffin-1N?

Maybe I'll drop in some time, thanks for the offer but I'd rather just buy a Stock 'Mech with my 200m c-bills instead of wasting time grinding for one

[TygerLily]

heimdelight, on 02 May 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

The realistic perspective of this situation is that there is no avoiding that we are related because of the House of Lords. If there is one single thing that brings us together (LORD _________, ggclose) that overshadows the many good things each member has done for the community, it seems the members of the community are thirsty for their own success in some form against the small amounts of trolling.

Anti-Social? I'm a little lost, here. Some of us are extroverts, some are introverts. To each their own, just like anything else in life. Majority of us regularly drop with a wide pool of players in the community, and are willing to engage in polite conversation when asked to do so.

I don't feel any inclination to take action in, "talking to my friends" when people simply make assumptions such as:

1. HoL uses cheats
2. HoL are all ********
3. HoL are anti-social
4. HoL don't care about the community

Those statements are so generalizing and wrong to assume that it asserts my belief that policing the members of HoL isn't necessary, the community needs to take action and stop assuming so much about us. I know personally I've spent a lot of time helping out the community, and so have others in HoL. People choose to be blind to those things because of their assumptions, that's their issue, not ours.

Trust me, I care about the community, but I, like many others, play this game for my own enjoyment first before anyone else's. If other people's enjoyment is on my agenda, which it is majority of the time (no one seems to have any major issues with me), than my enjoyment stems from other people's enjoyment and community interaction.

If competitive play is on my agenda, I can only help the community through those means. I want enjoyment out of competitive play, and the House of Lords is fantastic because it's just about getting together and pushing ourselves to defeat the best teams out there in a team environment rather than a public matchmaker queue. I don't have to join any unit, no obligations, and I get to play on arguably the best competitive MWO team and transfer advice to others from it.

But yeah, I don't deserve to be treated like everyone else does

I did pick my words carefully and intentionally. I didn't say asocial but antisocial...they may play with lots of people, etc. but by-and-large it seems you spend a lot of time defending your honor.

As YOU said, people don't have a problem with you...and as I said, I only recently saw that you were affiliated with them via the Mercstar server and my initial reaction was a feeling of sadness. Again, this conversation - which I'm glad HoL is responding to politely and thoughtfully - has shown me I was too quick to judge the whole.

But I think you're wrong to say, people "choose to be blind" to your community building. I'm saying that we don't see it in connection with HoL. What we do see is elitism and the like and that has become our perception (I'm speaking for a lot of people here and I hope someone speaks up who disagrees with me). It makes no sense to assume I drop in to a match, be told ggclose, see a bunch of rage in the chat from both sides and then walk away saying, "Hmm...he's probably a decent dude working on a n00b tutorial after this." Yea, my statements ARE generalizing, and ARE assuming...you're right! But they are based on "facts" we are presented by the actions of your volatile vocal few...

I want to add that I personally DO NOT nor have ever accused you a cheating...

heimdelight, on 02 May 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

Maybe I'll drop in some time, thanks for the offer but I'd rather just buy a Stock 'Mech with my 200m c-bills instead of wasting time grinding for one

Lol...you disgust me....but that would be awesome so see you, btw...

Edited by TygerLily, 02 May 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[Sun Cobra]

Smokeyjedi, on 02 May 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Nah im more of a kickboxer who cant stop using Kung fu/ Tai Kwan Do........... but to take that much of an advantage over my competitor states a lot about ones self , I couldnt cross that line unless we were dealing with Zombies.....**EDIT** see I said Boxing match..............No kicking implied..........but there u are to get that advantage..

You really have no idea who you would be messing with. I'm not even going to explain.

[Smokeyjedi]

Sun Cobra, on 02 May 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

You really have no idea who you would be messing with. I'm not even going to explain.

Lol, this is rich. and tasty.......

[Eglar]

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

I did pick my words carefully and intentionally. I didn't say asocial but antisocial...they may play with lots of people, etc. but by-and-large it seems you spend a lot of time defending your honor.

As YOU said, people don't have a problem with you...and as I said, I only recently saw that you were affiliated with them via the Mercstar server and my initial reaction was a feeling of sadness. Again, this conversation - which I'm glad HoL is responding to politely and thoughtfully - has shown me I was too quick to judge the whole.

Unlike Heim, I'm not even going to say anything to defend the "Honor of HoL". Since the House of Lords is no unit in first place it would be great if people addressed individuals instead of the entire "House of Lords" - well it's just not happening.

Even while undeserved, I personally enjoy the infamy that is associated being a member of House of Lords. I am fairly sure that there are many others that feel the same way. Every time someone verbally forfeits at the beginning of a match by just seeing a Lords premade makes me crack a smile irl, if that makes me an arrogant as******- have it your way. And I don't give a sh** about people who associate me with an arrogant as****** because I am in HoL. Like Heim said, most people who know him (me) don't care.

Nevertheless there are other members in HoL, who do not like to be associated with "bad reputation" and people who simply do not care. Hence they are not part of the House of Lords Drama on reddit or here.

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

But I think you're wrong to say, people "choose to be blind" to your community building. I'm saying that we don't see it in connection with HoL.

But at the same time you relate all bad things to all House of Lords members because of "evil deeds and tomfoolery" committed by single individuals. Selective memory. While I am none of them, Heimdelight is not the only HoL member who constantly contributes towards community-building - There's JagerXII, Adiuvo, Glock, Kin3ticX and Edmiester just to name a few.

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

What we do see is elitism and the like and that has become our perception.

Well, speaking for myself again; I do enjoy to be in the company of equally skilled players - that's the reason why I am in HoL in first place. Unlike what most people think of, it does not mean that HoL members group up to play with each other in a 4-men premade, it also means to play against each other. House of Lords members dropping against each other in public que is not an unusual sight.

At this point a simple example of my "unit life": While I sometimes enjoy the company of my unit, most players there are not very competitive. My unit is a kurita-aligned unit called "ronin legions" and we have 2 members that are also members of HoL. On many occasions we found playing with unit-mates "boring" vice versa, because playing with us means that they get dragged into an unusual Elo-bracket where they can not perform normally while for us it's pure damage- and kill farming.

Being in a 4-men HoL premade usually means that you do not only compete against the enemy team but also against your lance-mates on "who performs better" which gives me an additional kick when playing mwo. For me, especially with my background-story it was a salvation - having found and getting to know players that are equally skilled. And knowing that you are not alone out there.

If you want to call it "elitism", so be it.

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

Lol...you disgust me....but that would be awesome so see you, btw...

You're doing it wrong, you need to be like:
"Heimdelight I challenge you to a 1v1 duel at our Stock Mech Mondays."
"Khan Freebirthnatos Kota...whatever.....Find me in a circle of equals at our Stock Mech Mondays."

Edited by Eglar, 03 May 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[TygerLily]

Eglar, on 03 May 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

I personally enjoy the infamy that is associated being a member of House of Lords.

...

you relate all House of Lords members because of "evil deeds and tomfoolery" committed by single individuals. Selective memory.

I think I might have answered a similar point made earlier. Here was my response:

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

I know HoL can't "police their members" as you're aren't a unit with policy. But you can't complain when you're branded with them when you announce a match with them and speak for the group, as you do here on this thread. It seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too...to take an antisocial part in the community but then not have to take the blame...IMO.

I know you don't WANT people to generalize...but that's how humans process information. HoL is a not-team with a not-roster and a few vocal people announce "Lord whatever" and proceed to be jerks to people. They end up speaking for you whether you like it or not. As I said earlier to heim:

TygerLily, on 02 May 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

As YOU said, people don't have a problem with you...and as I said, I only recently saw that you were affiliated with them via the Mercstar server and my initial reaction was a feeling of sadness. Again, this conversation - which I'm glad HoL is responding to politely and thoughtfully - has shown me I was too quick to judge the whole.

...

But I think you're wrong to say, people "choose to be blind" to your community building. I'm saying that we don't see it in connection with HoL. What we do see is elitism and the like and that has become our perception (I'm speaking for a lot of people here and I hope someone speaks up who disagrees with me). It makes no sense to assume I drop in to a match, be told ggclose, see a bunch of rage in the chat from both sides and then walk away saying, "Hmm...he's probably a decent dude working on a n00b tutorial after this." Yea, my statements ARE generalizing, and ARE assuming...you're right! But they are based on "facts" we are presented by the actions of your volatile vocal few...

(I added some bold pertaining to specifically to your question)

To define what I mean by elitism, I don't criticize you for being good players and being proud of it. Nor do I questions it's value in giving you challenge...but why use that position "at the top" to shit on people?

"But we don't." You DO when you take the HoL role...you DON'T in your personal endeavors (Jaeger's streaming, etc. etc.) IE it seems silly to relegate your trolling to the "safe zone" of playing with top players then become meek and noble once you can conveniently distance yourself from the "bad reputation." PUT THEM TOGETHER. You just acknowledged that there is a "bad reputation" which members of HoL must either avoid or embrace. You see the distinction? Heim - thankfully - said: "HoL means nothing without the community" yet you are also famous for writing people off...or, as you admitted, relishing in people's frustration, etc. Building community and destroying it at the same time.

My whole initial question is: why is there in innate "bad reputation" that has developed regarding HoL and why does it seem many members have chosen the "embrace it" route rather than using their position to strengthen the community?

Edited by TygerLily, 03 May 2014 - 07:05 AM.

[Stealth Raptor]

as someone who is a lord myself and have been somewhat involved in some of the events, yes there are some people that may not be the most corteuous but then again no community is without such. the fact of the matter is the mindset that really allows players to get to top levels of competitive play also tends to make them arrogant/self centered. its the same argument really for politicians lol. Most of the HoL is no different then anyone else - people who enjoy playing the game and playing at a high level. It is why I enjoy playing with them immensely especially as NS is currently in a low activity phase. Do they get carried away saying LORD ______ ggclose? I guess it depends on the person, never bugged me even before becoming one. We really need CW though so we can stop focusing on unit bashing and do more on the field faction bashing