536 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Jun simply likes to blame other factors for his losses.

His failures are always due to "premades running meta builds".

They are never due to his own lack of piloting skills, or his own poorly configured mechs. It is literally always due to other people somehow cheating.

[Nightfire]

Jun Watarase, on 29 April 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

When a game is decided largely by how any meta builds are one team, and you can control how many meta builds your team has by dropping in pre-made teams, you effectively have the ability to rig matches in your favor.

Because no PUG would ever use a meta build that would give them a better chance at victory! Ever! Right?
That evil drive to use every advantage you can to win only comes from those who are willing to group up!

[Flaming oblivion]

Roland, on 29 April 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

Jun simply likes to blame other factors for his losses.

His failures are always due to "premades running meta builds".

They are never due to his own lack of piloting skills, or his own poorly configured mechs. It is literally always due to other people somehow cheating.

I've uninstalled now so I can speak as I like , keep preaching that nonsense the new players will continue to leave due to how broken the game is , the veterans will continue to leave as pgi continues to push back releases implement botched releases and money grab , Until they just cut there losses and close like so many other failed MMO's that set off down this path , It will be mostly PGI's fault , But also the blame will lie at the doors of those who wanted to keep things broken and exploit . Of course you will shut this statement down it will even be wrong when the game dies (not if ) and it will die long before its time.

[Craig Steele]

Nightfire, on 29 April 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

Which is my point. I would argue magnified to the point that they see malicious intent in every frustration and behind every frustration, a pre-made. It may or may not be at the hands of a pre-made and they may or may not be malicious. Without any way to definitively identify a pre-made on the other side, a few bad experiences with pre-mades project into every bad experience being at the expense of pre-mades with no evidence to contradict it. The very absence of evidence to prove the existence of a pre-made goes from being a failure to dismiss PUG-Stomping to ipso facto evidence of a pre-made!



I believe, the "Elephant in the room" as you put it, is the Frustration borne of so many losses and a feeling of lack of control over the situation. The tools most games use to negate this are absent in MWO and so people focus on what they can understand. People grouping up to improve their odds is easy to grasp and understand and it is easy to direct anger and spite at a group of people rather than uncaring, emotionless piece of software. You can't hurt software! This process is called "othering" and it is a mechanism for justifying the negative emotions they project on people they otherwise could or would not.



Again, I'm not going to even try and claim these people don't exist because they obviously do. What people can't do is look at the people whose behavior they despise, find a common trait and then project that behavior onto everyone who bears this trait. This is the very definition of bigotry. This is the same bigotry that some pre-mades use to dismiss all PUGs as scrubs, that doesn't make every loss a pre-made suffers a direct result of the PUGs on their team.

OK, so I guess we both agree there are a**holes out there, your point seems to be that not everyone is which I can certainly empathise (and agree) with. But my point is that when they are boasting about it and coaching each other on forums and people are buying into that and supporting those discussions, it's probably wider spread than you would like it to be minimised to.

I'm not talking about 4 guys linking up and playing within the context / spirit of the game. It is a team based game and we are not trying to turn it into a Solo PvE game. I'm talking about the "How can me and my 7 friends rort the system so we can smash a disadvantaged opposition"

There are all sorts of other issues, MM, ELO etc which are real. But if larger Guilds are actually bragging about Stomping Solo's then that's a lot of people (the Guild Memberships) that are endorsing it in one way or another. Some even orgainse regular "events" designed specifically around screwing over Solo PUG players (so I hear anyway).

But you are right. I see a few "Large Group" players in forums endorsing a Solo only queue on the basis of "Let the Scrubs play their own game" or words to that effect. It's a very elitest world is our MW:O. Seems like most people have to blame someone else for all the problems of the world, usually PGI.

So let me summarise, I am not disagreeing with you that some people are falling into a "blame the Pre made" hype, but I don't think the instances of poor behaviour by Pre Made groups are as small as you would like them to be.

[NeonKnight]

Jun Watarase, on 29 April 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

This. There was a thread on the front page of GD yesterday where some loser started to brag about how his premade was stomping randoms in heavier mechs because they were using focused fire on voice comms and had lag shield. Pic related.





I....what? The complete lack of english comprehension here just astounds me. In no way did he suggest that at all.

Oh

My

Gawd!

You are such an ....... I can't even type it because then I would eb the one getting banned.

You are soooo focused on the boogey man of PREMADE IS TEH EVILZ RAWR!!!! That you have gone an quoted the person above as being in a premade, when the poster stated he was dropping and ended wolfpacking with some other lights.

How does: "I was dropping and ended up wolfpacking" somehow end up as: "So me and my fellow evil nun-killing, baby-eating premade griefers after sacrificing a puppy to the devil purposely dropped into matches and killed everyone and and then lit up a Marlboro Cigarette after (cause it's better than sex!) over our shared orgasms!"

HOW? How do you honestly function during the day? Many have said it before, and we will continue to say it. Premades =/= Social Misfits!

This is a TEAM GAME! Or are you gonna complain if you went out for a pick up b-ball game or some such that the people there should all stop working together because as the 'new guy' you are at a handy cap?

Seriously Jun, get over yourself!

[NeonKnight]

Flaming oblivion, on 29 April 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

I've uninstalled now

OK, Bye!

[Craig Steele]

NeonKnight, on 29 April 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

You are such an .......

So given the rest of your post has pretty sound grammar, I am going to assume you have correctly used "an" and not "a" meaning the missing word starts with a vowel.

So that's an A, E, I, O or U.....

Hangman?

[NeonKnight]

Craig Steele, on 29 April 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

So given the rest of your post has pretty sound grammar, I am going to assume you have correctly used "an" and not "a" meaning the missing word starts with a vowel.

So that's an A, E, I, O or U.....

Hangman?

Well I coulda used an adjective beginning with vowel....like asinine

[Craig Steele]

NeonKnight, on 29 April 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Well I coulda used an adjective beginning with vowel....like asinine

Mimes then?

How many words?

Sounds like????

[Nightfire]

Craig Steele, on 29 April 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

OK, so I guess we both agree there are a**holes out there, your point seems to be that not everyone is which I can certainly empathise (and agree) with. But my point is that when they are boasting about it and coaching each other on forums and people are buying into that and supporting those discussions, it's probably wider spread than you would like it to be minimised to.

Two points here:

• I am not attempting to minimise this perspective, rather correct it. The fact is we actually don't know either way. We have no actual evidence beyond some anecdotal evidence that "some guys" on a forum said "some bad stuff" and "some other people" began to agree with them. We have no way of knowing what percentage of the actual population thinks this way and of those, how many even act on it.
  
• Here is the problem with ******* and bad experiences. ******* tend to be very vocal and attract a lot of attention. The human brain tends to emphasise bad/traumatic/intense experiences and minimalise/discard average/mildly positive ones. (Keep this in mind when I get to the section on evidence) So you have an unquantifiable number (in terms of % of population) of ******* bragging about experiences others find significantly negative.

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I'm not talking about 4 guys linking up and playing within the context / spirit of the game. It is a team based game and we are not trying to turn it into a Solo PvE game. I'm talking about the "How can me and my 7 friends rort the system so we can smash a disadvantaged opposition"

I'd just like to make the point here that not all those that sync-drop do so to roll PUGs. Additionally, sync-dropping also doesn't mean that you are guaranteed to win either.
However I will not argue that those people don't exist. Again: ******* exit!

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There are all sorts of other issues, MM, ELO etc which are real. But if larger Guilds are actually bragging about Stomping Solo's then that's a lot of people (the Guild Memberships) that are endorsing it in one way or another. Some even orgainse regular "events" designed specifically around screwing over Solo PUG players (so I hear anyway).

Bragging and doing are different things just as knowing and "knowing" are different things. That people brag about it, well some people trash talk, some lie, some probably even do it. The bottom line is we just don't know what camp they fall in to and we can't in good conscience call for people to be banned just because they decide to run their mouth about doing something that, for all we know, they have never actually done. As despicable as the idea may be, the day we start censoring people for bad or distasteful ideas that is the day the beginning of the end has come.

BTW: If you actually do know of anyone organising such an event, report it. I'm sure PGI will not tolerate organized, willful disruption of other players enjoyment.

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But you are right. I see a few "Large Group" players in forums endorsing a Solo only queue on the basis of "Let the Scrubs play their own game" or words to that effect. It's a very elitest world is our MW:O. Seems like most people have to blame someone else for all the problems of the world, usually PGI.

Groups: Bigotry is Bigotry is Bigotry.
PGI: As the maker of the game, PGI has a lot of things to be responsible for but poor player performance isn't one of them.

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So let me summarise, I am not disagreeing with you that some people are falling into a "blame the Pre made" hype, but I don't think the instances of poor behaviour by Pre Made groups are as small as you would like them to be.

I'm not saying they are small, I am saying they are unquantifiable. That is a very different statement. I can theorise that in the absence of any other evidence, personal experience becomes the norm. If there is some evidence to suggest (or outright confirm) that some of the losses (or Stomps) were the result of a Group (or a PUG in the case of pre-mades) then a lack of evidence showing that other Stomps were NOT a result of a Group (or PUG) then personal bias fills in the missing gap to it being a reasonable assumption that they were also the result of a Group. ("They were too well coordinated", "They focused fire too well", "They reacted too quickly", etc) The "reasonable assumption" becomes a suspicion. The suspicion becomes a belief. The belief becomes "Fact". The "Fact" is repeated by others and thus becomes an "undeniable fact"!

Lack of evidence to support that any frustrating experience is NOT the result of a group becomes "evidence" of that frustrating experience being the result of a group! Combined with the human mind's tendency to overweight negative experiences and you can see how the empirically unquantifiable, subjectively becomes fact.

Part of the player-base feeling this way is not a trivial issue, it is something that should indeed be addressed! Confirming that their emotional reasoning and conclusions are valid with no objective basis leads to reactionary "fixes" that continue to mitigate symptoms rather than solve problems and those unsolved problems go on to continue to cause new/different symptoms.

The short answer is, you just don't know!

[Craig Steele]

Nightfire, on 29 April 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

The short answer is, you just don't know!

Equally, neither do you though.

It just might be (however unlikely) that you are the only person of integrity in the "Large Group" space right now? People who have been on the receiving end of some groups actions have just a passionate experience equal to your benevolant one.

As a player group we should be concerned, so the argument, "Yeah but it's not a big problem" is hardly a great place to start. It might only be a small fire in your neighbours back yard but you should put it out anyway in case it consumes your house right?

As for Synch dropping, it doesn't matter what the justification offered is. Fundamentally PGI have said that the game experience for most players when confronted by teams larger than 4 is ordinary. The force mutlipliers of comms, synch load outs and familiarity are too large to have a sense of balance in a match (my words). Ergo, they capped Pre made teams at 4 man max.

Yet I have heard of some large Guilds synchdropping 30+ people to try and get a larger battlefield presence in a game. They don't want to play the 12 man queues cause thats to intense (apparently), but they are quite happy to inflict their version of team work on a bunch of solo Pug's because its not against the rules and its "fun to play with my friends"

Now it really doesn't matter what your justification for Synch Dropping is, its got nothing to do with Game balance or the in game experience of your opposition. PGI have said it's not the type of game they want to offer and if you are Synch dropping your circumnavigating the intent (albeit within the rules) for your reasons. It's certainly not in the spirit of the game PGI want to provide.

There is nothing noble about it. The people who Synch drop no matter what their justification, do so knowing their opponent will be less advantageous and probably weaker than the Synch dropping team. They want to play in that environment. They do not want a balanced match, they want to have an advantage for their own reasons.

So we have this scenario where for some large group players, they don't like that PGI hasn't offered them the game they want so they happily screw over the rest of the population playing the game the way they want to and then blame PGI for not giving them what they wanted in the first place when other people complain.

It's a bit like writing down your income cause you think the government gets enough taxes and then moaning about poor health care when you get sick.

[Slepnir]

Grimmrog, on 29 April 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

Here let me shorten your post-

Quote

I want this game to be like armored core online and I don't care if its supposed to be MechWarrior based on the battletech universe

Here is your little problem. the game would not even have gotten off the ground had it not been for the original IP. there is a reason why things exist in the battletech universe. it has a nearly 30 year history behind it including but not limited to factions, political and economic constraints and so forth. the reasons why mechs exist in the manner they exist with the hardpoints they have is because of the IP. If house kurita's military wants a mech for fire support duty they float a contract bid to luthien armor works and a host of other companies within the combine, then test out the competing prototypes. putting into service the mech that best suits the needs they are intended for. mechs are built from the factory to do a specific job and were never meant to be true franken mechs . thus giving every mech a strength and weakness. which would be completely different than one designed for the davion or marik militaries. if you loose that type of immersion you loose the IP the fanbase and the reason for the game. it just becomes a big stompy robot game AKA armored core. Hell in the battletech universe putting in a weapon that a mech wasn't designed to carry took weeks of labor, in some cases rebuilding the internal frame and depending on how good(or bad) your ground crew was you risk weapon failure in combat.......imagine if PGI did it correctly and every weapon in the game that wasn't supposed to go in the slot you put it in had a failure mechanic like the ultra AC jam.

[NeonKnight]

So, interesting little thread our favorite Boogey man Spotting Chicken Little Sky-is-Falling crier has created.

http://mwomercs.com/...he-matchmaking/

Of particular interest is this post:

Jun Watarase, on 30 April 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

50% ballistic boats vs random mechs, gg wp close game :DDDDDD

12-2 rofl stomps are a myth! A MYTH I SAY!

Now, last I checked, I'm still wearing my Big Boy pants, and I can admit to losing a match, but I don;t QQ that the loss was to anything more than failed tactics on our side.

But notice who was on the WINNINGEST side, running I can only assume to be an LRM Boat Stalker.

Also, notice, I was on the ROFL stomped side, I never, EVER drop solo (so I was part of a premade) and yet we lost.

Now, the best part of this screen shot is


I DID NOT POST IT

Mr I see PREMADES EVERYWHERE posted it. And (here's the best part to me), is ANECDOTAL to his claims. Jun won, I lost, and Jun is boasting about it (as a PUGGER), and I (as a premade) am not boasting, nor am I running and hiding from it.

It was a good game, I just wish I saw Jun was on, as I would have gladly given my life just to get him!

[Jun Watarase]

No matter how many people confirm that this is a problem, the same griefers who keep dropping in 4 man meta builds to ruin the game for everyone else will simply use "learn2play noob!" as their excuse...and try to re-direct all blame to the "noobs". Its totally not their fault, its just that theiir opposition has no skillz and we should just blame PGI instead...

You can see it happening in this thread...on this very page even.

Its really quite sad that these people arent banned yet.

[Nightfire]

Craig Steele, on 30 April 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Equally, neither do you though.

I have admitted this. What is your point?
Is your point that because neither of us know that the personal "lived experience" of a small % of the population that cannot be considered representative of the whole trumps the honest declaration that we don't know? That this "lived experience" is thus a perfectly valid substitute for fact until we can find out more determinately?
That is what I'm getting from your objections here but I'd be happy for you to clarify for me if it is different.

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It just might be (however unlikely) that you are the only person of integrity in the "Large Group" space right now? People who have been on the receiving end of some groups actions have just a passionate experience equal to your benevolant one.

Well that is a more definable and manageable claim. I can categorically, with 100% certainty confirm that I am not the only player with a large group preference that plays the game for the sake of the game and not to farm PUGs.

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As a player group we should be concerned, so the argument, "Yeah but it's not a big problem" is hardly a great place to start. It might only be a small fire in your neighbours back yard but you should put it out anyway in case it consumes your house right?

You keep coming back to this point of me minimalising the problem. If you consider me saying (and this is me saying it) "We have no idea how many group players are in any match, how many groups play to deliberately harm the playing experience of others or how many losses are directly attributable to a group on the opposing team. So until there is a way to know for sure we should stop demonising all group players as the same as the mental projection some Solo-players are placing on all groups players" then yes, you could say I'm minimalising the issue. Most rational people, I hope, would attribute the position to a middle ground of legitimate uncertainty either way. Saying one position is not valid is not automatically validating the opposing view.

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As for Synch dropping, it doesn't matter what the justification offered is. Fundamentally PGI have said that the game experience for most players when confronted by teams larger than 4 is ordinary. The force mutlipliers of comms, synch load outs and familiarity are too large to have a sense of balance in a match (my words). Ergo, they capped Pre made teams at 4 man max.

Yeah, that's your interpretation of past events. The Group limit wasn't dropped to make things fairer, it was done to make balancing the new Elo MM system easier and was stated 8 man groups would return soon. Multiple promises were made and broken on the return of 5+ groups until PGI recently dropped all pretense and just said they weren't coming back. You may or may not be correct on the inner workings of the minds in PGI but you don't actually know that. I do believe that the 5+ group limit was abandoned due at least in part to vocal complaints in the part of PUG players and the demonisation of groups.

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Yet I have heard of some large Guilds synchdropping 30+ people to try and get a larger battlefield presence in a game. They don't want to play the 12 man queues cause thats to intense (apparently), but they are quite happy to inflict their version of team work on a bunch of solo Pug's because its not against the rules and its "fun to play with my friends"

Then report them! I've never come across these large groups of people but if you have and you have failed to report them, that is on you! Again: ******* exist!

As for "fun to play with my friends", you are raising and conflating a completely different argument here. In fact it is my personal experience that the more PGI try to restrict, quash and eliminate people from grouping the more they will fail until these people just quit. (BTW: these people quitting would not be a good thing or 'good riddance' scenario. When the point comes that team players leave a team based game because they can't play as a team, that is the point MWO will die. [prediction]) It is my opinion PGI would be better served embracing team play and using that to control and guide the activity because we all know prohibition worked superbly, right?

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Now it really doesn't matter what your justification for Synch Dropping is, its got nothing to do with Game balance or the in game experience of your opposition. PGI have said it's not the type of game they want to offer and if you are Synch dropping your circumnavigating the intent (albeit within the rules) for your reasons. It's certainly not in the spirit of the game PGI want to provide.

Ok, this is going to take a few points:

• Synch-dropping is a result of human behavior taking its natural course. In a team based game, people will want to play with their friends as a team. Where that mechanism doesn't exist, they will find ways to make it happen.
  
• No one really considers the experience of the opposition when they are playing, only their own. That is why people play games.
  
• It is not the game they intend to offer right now for the public drop queue. It was the game they promised, offered and sold when they were selling Founders packs. It is the game they have promised for CW. It may be against the intent but come on, it is completely in line with the spirit of the game! It is a team game! It is meant to be played as a team not as a group of loosely associated individuals who just happen to be in some roughly similar location. The splash screens even still promote groups as key to success!
  
• You may disagree with it and point to the 4 man group limit as evidence of your position but seriously, do you honestly think that is a sound position to make that claim from?

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There is nothing noble about it. The people who Synch drop no matter what their justification, do so knowing their opponent will be less advantageous and probably weaker than the Synch dropping team. They want to play in that environment. They do not want a balanced match, they want to have an advantage for their own reasons.

• Never claimed there was anything as grand as nobility in their synch-dropping.
  
• You know, I honestly believe a good deal of groups don't think as far ahead to how much of an advantage they will be getting. Most simply want to play with their friends. Some simply want to control the random "PUG" factor.
  
• If playing with their friends is "that environment" then you're right. If you mean the only reason to Synch-drop is playing in a larger group simply to have more of an advantage then I can confirm right here and now that is immediately disprovable. I can find several exceptions to that theory without looking hard at all.
  
• You have NO idea what they want. This is projection on your part upon those that synch-drop. You, in no way, can ever speak to the intentions of another that you do not know with any semblance of authority.

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So we have this scenario where for some large group players, they don't like that PGI hasn't offered them the game they want so they happily screw over the rest of the population playing the game the way they want to and then blame PGI for not giving them what they wanted in the first place when other people complain.

That is one way of putting it. The "happily screw over the rest of the population playing the game the way they want to" implies that these large groups give the experiences of the rest of the population any thought at all. I'd offer the thought that some groups may not even get that far in their thinking.
As for blaming PGI, can you really blame them? The game was SOLD to the Founders on this very premise! It is less blaming "PGI for not giving them what they wanted in the first place" and probably more along the lines of "blaming PGI for not giving them the game PGI promised them in the first place".

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It's a bit like writing down your income cause you think the government gets enough taxes and then moaning about poor health care when you get sick.

Yeah, I don't follow that analogy. Might be too rooted in American culture.

I get from your writing that you seem to think groups in and of themselves (esp. Large Groups) are inherently bad for the Solo-player experience in MWO. Now dissect that a little.
"Teams are bad for the solo-player experience in a Team based game"
I'll readily admit, these are my words, I'm not attempting to Straw-man you I just want to clarify how your position comes across to me. That does sound rather contradictory though, doesn't it?

I'll come back to these points:

• I believe the impact groups have on the PUG experience is exaggerated for the reasons I have previously stated but what I will categorically say is that we really don't know what impact groups have on game play in general.
  
• The PUG experience of Frustration is not a trivial issue but one that should be tacked from objective reasoning, not from emotive reactions.
  
• MWO lacks many of the tools needed to give players some control over their game play. This is not the players fault, nor is it the fault of Groups or PUGs or any other player section.
  
• PGI has, in my opinion, made a huge error in attempting to reduce the impact on matches groups have and the ability for players to play in groups. PGI should be embracing the ability for people to group up and in such guide, channel and control groups into a positive experience.

[kapusta11]

You're blaming people for playing with friends and trying to be as competitive as they can in a team based shooter? Really?

[Nightfire]

Jun Watarase, on 30 April 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

No matter how many people confirm that this is a problem, the same griefers who keep dropping in 4 man meta builds to ruin the game for everyone else will simply use "learn2play noob!" as their excuse...and try to re-direct all blame to the "noobs".
Its totally not their fault, its just that theiir opposition has no skillz and we should just blame PGI instead...

You can see it happening in this thread...on this very page even.

Ok, put up or shut up!
Evidence, from this page please (as you stated) because I don't see it.

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Its really quite sad that these people arent banned yet.

On what grounds? Because they say things you don't like to hear or because they disagree with you?

[CCC Dober]

Jun, it's a case of pearls before swine here. If anything, your thread helped to drag out the most stupid among the DBs, so that everybody can see them for what they are. While that may help a bit, I'm more worried about the upper echelons of PGI, because the problems we have today ain't new and I would go so far and say that they have been cultivated, much like the baby trolls that you have attracted here. It wouldn't be the first time that trolls in charge (supporting their minions among the fanbase) ruined a product on purpose (see D3/Jay Wilson as a more recent example).

Long story short: the evidence at hand strongly suggests that we have a problem with our 'overlords' (read: PGI), not so much with their minions (read: baby trolls and DBs). You can rail against the latter, but as long as they are nurtured and protected by the former, it's as I said before: pearls before swine. PGI needs to come clear and cut ties with this rabble or nothing you talked about will ever change for the better.

[Craig Steele]

Nightfire, on 30 April 2014 - 01:21 AM, said:

*for space*

Well I was empathising with you while trying to demonstrate that your argument cuts both ways.

But oh well, your deductions and conclusions suggest you have an aggresive tone now.

In any case, Yes I do think that in a game that is articulated as "based on Team Play" and with a mechanic that caps Groups members at 4, that larger groups of 5+ working the system are inhibiting the game experience that PGI are trying to implement. Thats their system by the way, not mine. I'm not defending them, just saying what it is and pointing out that anyone trying to work the system for their own reasons is NOT playing the game as intended by the Dev's. What was dropped in Beta was dropped in Beta, it is what it is today.

It really doesn't matter what the argument is, Synch Dropping is a deliberate attempt to circumnavigate the game structure and ergo, everyone who does it knows that they are attempting to do something outside of the spirit (but not the law) of the game mode.

It's all kinda redundant as the new LM is supposed to limit any Group to just one per team.

But here is the bottom line.

The game has a mode where groups of 5+ can play now (and yes I am well aware of the shortfalls of that mode but it is still there which is the point) so they don't need to be jumping in the PUG queue if all they want is to "play with our friends".

So it is moot unless the motivation driving Synch Droppers is anything more than 'I want to play with my friends"

I guess we will see how many Guilds still organise Synch dropping exercises in the PUG queue for something more than playing with their friends?

[Eglar]

Generally, I have the feeling that the complaints about the MM all started when PGI increased the elo matchmaker threshold to 1400 (here), so that high-elo players could also drop. Prior to that players only had 1000 threshold meaning that you can only go 500 up and down.
How it was before @1000 threshod :


With 1400 it's now quiete possible that a new player (1400 elo) could be matched together with a 2000+ elo player. It is however much rarer to drop against/with the same high/low-elo player/premade over and over again - "Hey Jun Watase, haven't seen you once. ;-)) And since the op described his perspective so clearly, I'll also state some things from my perspective:

- It's naturally frustrating for a good player to watch a new player failing to grasp any situational awareness/aim/understand the meta-game (and please do not think that the metagame only consists of ppc and ac5s).

- "I don't want to have you in my team nor the enemy team, because you perform so poorly that a LRM-Baseturret would be more useful."

- Unfortunately I don't have a choice but to bear your presence because there are not enough people in my Elo bracket and because I love this game and want to play this game.

That being said the general attitude from High-Elo players towards the average(casual) Player are often poor and make them sound either very elitist and arrogant.(my previous statements included). I admit that it doesn't help and is not healthy for the community.

Whenever someone tries to approach the average player it sounds like this (Replace the term "Fish" with "Pug/Bads/Grunts"):


Most good players I know, myself included don't bother with "explaining stuff ingame" or "baby new players around" because there are so many. Yes, you are clearly the majority. Anyone who wants to grasp the meta-game and improve their skills though I'd recommend having a look at Jager XII's daily stream, for he's currently the most approachable high elo player out there. If you feel that you don't want to learn the meta or improve your "skills" I feel that elo is the right thing, because you will only occasionally drop against the real meta-build ggclose premades.

Personally,I am member of a unit that is no very competitive and I some times have hard times playing with these guys, vice-versa. Showing off might be good once or twice but showing off all the time feels wrong and is no fun.