353 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Featherwood, on 29 April 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

I doubt Kit Fox Alt. C will be released at launch, though we may expect additional configurations released after all initial 8 Clan Mechs would become available for C-Bills, like PGI did for Phoenix Mechs recently. My expectations are: Prime + Alt. A + Alt. B configurations for every Clan chassis at launch and C, D configurations to be added later.

P.S. +100500 for Hellbringer.

Yeah, that is my fear, too. I currently only count on Prime, Alpha, and Bravo configurations being released. Without an ECM option, however, it is going to hurt us in the competitive scene. Especially considering the lack of scout mechs and jump capable assaults.

[Featherwood]

Pariah Devalis, on 29 April 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

...Without an ECM option, however, it is going to hurt us in the competitive scene...

Well, you talk like competitive scene and 12mans had ever been of PGI's concern. 84% of games are played solo, you know All my friends have quit MWO (and returned back to EVE), because there is nothing to do in MWO as a group for their liking. Sigh.

On the other hand, Executioners and Hellbringers make other meta-scene Mechs outdated or at least kick them in the head without much effort. "Wanna take ECM or poptart - go IS" - that will be a new motto. Well, it's gone off topic a bit, I think I'll stop here)

[Lightfoot]

So, yes. 2x ERPPC and 11 DHS can fire them every 10 seconds and no more without shutting down. From zero heat the first salvo takes you to 56% heat, 4 seconds later you will be at 42% and can fire again going to the redline, but not shutting down. Fire again at recharge and you shutdown for 5-6 seconds, damaging your mech to deep yellow CT internal status.

Firing the ERPPCs in staggered fire allows you to fire 5 times before shutting down for 5-6 seconds on the 6th single-fire. This is all on River City. So the Adder prime will be a pretty good sniper, but be very out-matched in any brawl vs AC's which have continuous damage. And don't take it to Tourmaline, Mordor, or Caustic if possible.

Really, the DHS should cool faster since the weapons all recharge so fast in MWO, but only energy weapons produce alot of heat to be affected by slow/normal cooling DHS. We have Ghost Heat now, we should get faster cooling heatsinks so players can compete better, or more evenly.

Edited by Lightfoot, 29 April 2014 - 08:31 AM.

[Bilbo]

Stormcrow screenies are on the front page.

[Butane9000]

Bilbo, on 29 April 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Stormcrow screenies are on the front page.

FupDup won the bet. I have made good on my side of it.

[Domoneky]

Stormcrow screenshots? Le the QQ'ing begin.

[Enileph]

On one hand I understand the fixed flamer thing. But on the other hand that sucks bouncy sausages!!
Obviously making it a regular energy hardpoint would be good, that way people won't be forced to bring the piece of deadweight into battle. (Yes fluff is only fluff and flamer is useless piece of deadweight and I will say this again and again)

But I do think A MIDDLEGROUND can be made.

How about this, make that a "flamer only" hardpoint. An energy Hardpoint that is allowed only flamer.
So yeah you can take the flamer off if you don't use it anyways, and use the saved tonnage for some armor, or you can keep the deadweight and try to use it. Everyone is a bit happier.

[SirLANsalot]

Cimarb, on 29 April 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

Just to avoid any confusion, there is no such thing as a Clan PPC. The Clans only have ERPPCs.

Also, while it wasn't clarified specifically, a lot of people are assuming by omission that the slug version of the CLBX will be the same as the IS slug (a single projectile), but based off of Paul's comments about all clan autocannons being burst-fire, i would assume that would mean the slug version of the CLBX too. So, you can do burst-fire (slug) or cluster (IS-like) rounds in your CLBX.

The way I understood that part of the podcast was. Since Clans do not have normal AC's, that the LBX's would be there normal AC's, firing Canister or Slug. The Burst Fire was about the UAC's, since a 2 shot UAC20 would be quite broken in this game if it was just 2 slugs. Having Burst Fire UAC's will bring there RoF way up, since it will be 2 volleys of whatever number it is for the AC. So a UAC20 would be firing 2 "volleys" of 5 slugs dealing 4 damage each (as he said in the podcast) for a total of 10 slugs going out the barrel if you held down the trigger to fire in ultra mode.

[Cimarb]

SirLANsalot, on 29 April 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

The way I understood that part of the podcast was. Since Clans do not have normal AC's, that the LBX's would be there normal AC's, firing Canister or Slug. The Burst Fire was about the UAC's, since a 2 shot UAC20 would be quite broken in this game if it was just 2 slugs. Having Burst Fire UAC's will bring there RoF way up, since it will be 2 volleys of whatever number it is for the AC. So a UAC20 would be firing 2 "volleys" of 5 slugs dealing 4 damage each (as he said in the podcast) for a total of 10 slugs going out the barrel if you held down the trigger to fire in ultra mode.

I guess we will just have to wait for clarification to see which of us is correct

[IraqiWalker]

Either way, we will get LBXs that work the way they should, and if we get burst-fire ACs, that means we will have ACs that work the way they should.

[SirLANsalot]

IraqiWalker, on 30 April 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

Either way, we will get LBXs that work the way they should, and if we get burst-fire ACs, that means we will have ACs that work the way they should.

Overall the Clan weapons are all going to be high skill weapons. Longer beam duration on lasers, burst fire UAC's. Overall if you are good at aiming, clans will be your daddy.

[IraqiWalker]

SirLANsalot, on 30 April 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

Overall the Clan weapons are all going to be high skill weapons. Longer beam duration on lasers, burst fire UAC's. Overall if you are good at aiming, clans will be your daddy.

The lasers are the one thing I disagree with. It should actually be a shorter duration, that way if you miss, you lose out on a lot of damage, instead of getting almost no damage loss if you miss for a few seconds.

[Cimarb]

IraqiWalker, on 01 May 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

The lasers are the one thing I disagree with. It should actually be a shorter duration, that way if you miss, you lose out on a lot of damage, instead of getting almost no damage loss if you miss for a few seconds.

I hadn't thought of it that way and kind of agree, but the idea (I think) was that it took more skill to keep the laser on target, so it would reward better gunnery skill with more damage. Either way could be argued, but I actually like PGIs version better because your version would mean more damage in a shorter time, making lasers closer to FLD, which I am trying to lower, not increase.

[Pariah Devalis]

Otoh, lasers having a shorter burn time across the board would help to close the gap between ballistics and energy. Granted, I think the right solution to it is to make all not scattershot autocannon shots be burst instead, for both clan and IS.

[SirLANsalot]

IraqiWalker, on 01 May 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

The lasers are the one thing I disagree with. It should actually be a shorter duration, that way if you miss, you lose out on a lot of damage, instead of getting almost no damage loss if you miss for a few seconds.

They are high skill weapons. Even right now, Large Lasers take some good gunnery skills to keep on target for a whole second. So Clan weapons are going to be the same way, only even harder. Longer durations keeps the DoT dealt by clan lasers the same as IS ones (which is what PGI is aiming for). Same could be said about the ERPPC (still the only unknown) by keeping its face value damage (15) but increase its cooldown (6) to keep its DPS the same as the IS one (or close to).

Shorter duration for clan weapons, would just make them more OP then the universe (game) could handle. I mean the Clan Large Laser (to the IS its an Clan ER Large Laser but since clans do not have a normal one, its just a CLL to them) is a ONE crit 4 ton weapon with the same heat as the IS normal LL.


On a side note. I am assuming PGI will label the clan lasers like so.

Clan Small Laser
Clan Small Pulse Laser
Clan Medium Laser
Clan Medium Pulse Laser
Clan Large Laser
Clan Large Pulse Laser

The Fact that all of those guns are ER is unimportant to the clans, as they have no standard variant to compare it to. The IS have 2 Large Lasers, mostly because the 2nd one came much later (after the Helm Memory Core). Since IS have 2 different tech levels depending on the mech, clans have no such thing. So the Clan Large Pulse Laser, is technically a Clan ER Large Pulse Laser. There LPL has the same base range as an IS LL (450m) and is one crit and one ton less as well (6 tons 1 crit).

[Pariah Devalis]

SirLANsalot, on 01 May 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

They are high skill weapons. Even right now, Large Lasers take some good gunnery skills to keep on target for a whole second. So Clan weapons are going to be the same way, only even harder. Longer durations keeps the DoT dealt by clan lasers the same as IS ones (which is what PGI is aiming for). Same could be said about the ERPPC (still the only unknown) by keeping its face value damage (15) but increase its cooldown (6) to keep its DPS the same as the IS one (or close to).

Shorter duration for clan weapons, would just make them more OP then the universe (game) could handle. I mean the Clan Large Laser (to the IS its an Clan ER Large Laser but since clans do not have a normal one, its just a CLL to them) is a ONE crit 4 ton weapon with the same heat as the IS normal LL.

Incorrect. It has the same heat as an IS ERLLas, but deals more damage. By the way, because Inner Sphere LLas damage was buffed, if they keep the damage Clan ERLLas deal the same as on table top, then there is only 1 point more damage in the beam. If they correct it to compensate for the IS LLas buff, then it will be dealing 2 more damage than an IS LLas.

Quote

On a side note. I am assuming PGI will label the clan lasers like so.

Clan Small Laser
Clan Small Pulse Laser
Clan Medium Laser
Clan Medium Pulse Laser
Clan Large Laser
Clan Large Pulse Laser

Why? They have always been referred to as ERSLas, ERMLas, and ERLLas, along with ERPPC. LPLas, MPLas, and SPLas have also always been referred to as such. The only exceptions occurred when the option for mix tech was available, in which case they would be identified with a "C" prefix. A Clansman would not label their weapons as CLAN, as it would be implied. Just like how IS LLas are not labeled IS LLas.

Quote

The Fact that all of those guns are ER is unimportant to the clans, as they have no standard variant to compare it to. The IS have 2 Large Lasers, mostly because the 2nd one came much later (after the Helm Memory Core). Since IS have 2 different tech levels depending on the mech, clans have no such thing. So the Clan Large Pulse Laser, is technically a Clan ER Large Pulse Laser. There LPL has the same base range as an IS LL (450m) and is one crit and one ton less as well (6 tons 1 crit).

Again, that would be running in the face of past standards. An ERLLas is an ERLLas. A MPLas is an MPLas. A SLas is an SLas, and an ERSLas is an ERSLas, regardless if there are no options that still exist in wide circulation.

[101011]

Enileph, on 29 April 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

On one hand I understand the fixed flamer thing. But on the other hand that sucks bouncy sausages!!
Obviously making it a regular energy hardpoint would be good, that way people won't be forced to bring the piece of deadweight into battle. (Yes fluff is only fluff and flamer is useless piece of deadweight and I will say this again and again)

But I do think A MIDDLEGROUND can be made.

How about this, make that a "flamer only" hardpoint. An energy Hardpoint that is allowed only flamer.
So yeah you can take the flamer off if you don't use it anyways, and use the saved tonnage for some armor, or you can keep the deadweight and try to use it. Everyone is a bit happier.

The read the dozens of other posts explaining this already, quineg? The flamer is hardwired, and cannot under any circumstances be removed. End of story. If it is total junk, oh well, as it is stuck on there anyways.

Edited by 101011, 01 May 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

Pariah Devalis, on 01 May 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

Incorrect. It has the same heat as an IS ERLLas, but deals more damage. By the way, because Inner Sphere LLas damage was buffed, if they keep the damage Clan ERLLas deal the same as on table top, then there is only 1 point more damage in the beam. If they correct it to compensate for the IS LLas buff, then it will be dealing 2 more damage than an IS LLas.



Why? They have always been referred to as ERSLas, ERMLas, and ERLLas, along with ERPPC. LPLas, MPLas, and SPLas have also always been referred to as such. The only exceptions occurred when the option for mix tech was available, in which case they would be identified with a "C" prefix. A Clansman would not label their weapons as CLAN, as it would be implied. Just like how IS LLas are not labeled IS LLas.



Again, that would be running in the face of past standards. An ERLLas is an ERLLas. A MPLas is an MPLas. A SLas is an SLas, and an ERSLas is an ERSLas, regardless if there are no options that still exist in wide circulation.

Regardless of how they have been referred to as in the past (and I know) they probably will be labeled as I described, so as to differentiate between the two with our UI and Inventory system, That way people wont be confused by seeing 2 ERLL, or be wondering why they cant put an ERSL on there mech. By Labeling them CLAN and dropping the ER, there will be no confusion at all, even when the timeline jumps, and IS get there ER of the ML and SL.

[Cimarb]

SirLANsalot, on 01 May 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Regardless of how they have been referred to as in the past (and I know) they probably will be labeled as I described, so as to differentiate between the two with our UI and Inventory system, That way people wont be confused by seeing 2 ERLL, or be wondering why they cant put an ERSL on there mech. By Labeling them CLAN and dropping the ER, there will be no confusion at all, even when the timeline jumps, and IS get there ER of the ML and SL.

I would agree with you, but if you are loading an IS mech, you won't see Clan tech at all. If loading a Clan mech, you won't see IS tech at all. It's the same as when you toggle Artemis on/off. They are two different items, but you only ever see one version in the mechlab at a time.

[SirLANsalot]

Cimarb, on 01 May 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

I would agree with you, but if you are loading an IS mech, you won't see Clan tech at all. If loading a Clan mech, you won't see IS tech at all. It's the same as when you toggle Artemis on/off. They are two different items, but you only ever see one version in the mechlab at a time.

In the lab yes, but if you go to the Home Tab and hit Inventory, you see everything, and for that fact, is probably why all the Clan stuff will be labeled Clan.