150 replies to this topic

[Mavairo]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cf0f2e2440ec03e

When mechs like this (and I kid you not, I saw this in a Charlie Lance mech) are being fielded, there's ALOT more wrong with the game than "evil premades!"\
(note I'm not sure if that is EXACTLY what he had, but that IS what his weapon loadout was. )
Mechs like that are reasons #800 through 1548 why you should never take the field past US Prime Time.

Doesn't matter if your lance kills 6 mechs and each scores 400 damage or better. When THAT is the rest of your team well.. you're pretty well screwed, it's pretty bad when a Stock mech is better than someone's pride and joy.

Edited by Mavairo, 24 April 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

As someone who has only pugged since I started in CB I can't see the "new" MM/Launch Module making any difference. With a W/L ratio of 1 I'm right in the middle (and probably higher than I should be). This means I see lots of new players and usually kill them, cos I have some idea of what I'm doing and my mechs are not on basic efficiencies.
The problem is that we don't have the player population to give new players their own (safer) pool to play in.

[Tynan]

The vast majority of the time you're getting stomped it's not because of a premade on the other team, it's because your team is bad and that's all.

I can't count how many times I've had someone on the other team accuse my team of being a premade, or been on a team where some scrub accuses the other team of being an evil premade. That person is invariably terrible.

Sure, every once in a while you'll see four Kuritans all in AC-40 or dual gauss jags or with four HGNs but that's a rare event.

[Navy Sixes]

Tynan, on 24 April 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

The vast majority of the time you're getting stomped it's not because of a premade on the other team, it's because your team is bad and that's all.

So let's just make all of the prems drop in the group queue and all of the solos drop in a solo queue. No more excuses from dirty, incompetent, mud-people solos, and the Aryan master-race pre-made gods, who would never exploit new player's inexperience or solos' overall lack of advanced communication, will never have to share the field with their lessers again. Problem solved for everyone.

And yet, cue inexplicable premade push back in 3... 2... 1...

[Pygar]

CygnusX7, on 24 April 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

There's a reason this conversation comes up weekly... and it's not the new guys fault.
I've met some very helpful people on TS and some who I consider friends.

It's too bad there isn't at least a TS integration to the game.

I have my doubts that PGI could come up with a good comms solution. If they do I will apologize via VOIP at the beginning of each match.

Yeah, this has been a debate about VoIP since the game was in beta, and I've always been on the "No, the game doesn't need built in voice" camp- it's not that I don't think that PGI can come up with a passable VoIP system for MW:O, it's just that it probably will not be better than teamspeak, so many of us that are used to using teamspeak FOR PRETTY MUCH EVERY MULTI-PLAYER ONLINE GAME ON EARTH, will just be annoyed at the PGI offering and just insist people use teamspeak instead....and PGI could be working on other things instead of making a massive effort to re-create software apps that not only already exist, but only take minutes to download and setup.

[Pygar]

Tycho von Gagern, on 24 April 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

So let's just make all of the prems drop in the group queue and all of the solos drop in a solo queue. No more excuses from dirty, incompetent, mud-people solos, and the Aryan master-race pre-made gods, who would never exploit new player's inexperience or solos' overall lack of advanced communication, will never have to share the field with their lessers again. Problem solved for everyone.

And yet, cue inexplicable premade push back in 3... 2... 1...

Actually, a "group only" queue is on the drawing board for MW:O, it was even possibly almost ready for the upcoming launch module patch if I read the dev blog correctly. I just have a philosophy that says the key to winning this game is teamwork, not "meta" builds or single pilot heroics- and I don't appreciate being demonized for that being my playstyle....especially because 4vPUG "pre-made" groups are not the "Easy Win Button" that people are making it out to be....

...and I also forsee a "group only queue" not really being as sweet of a deal as some might think- I think it sounds like a bunch of kids who want to swim in the kiddie pool because the water is warmer, but they don't realize the water is warmer because the other kids are going pee-pee in it.

[Boris The Spider]

Tycho von Gagern, on 24 April 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

So let's just make all of the prems drop in the group queue and all of the solos drop in a solo queue. No more excuses from dirty, incompetent, mud-people solos, and the Aryan master-race pre-made gods, who would never exploit new player's inexperience or solos' overall lack of advanced communication, will never have to share the field with their lessers again. Problem solved for everyone.

And yet, cue inexplicable premade push back in 3... 2... 1...

Tycho, Its not inexplicable. I just think back to me when I first started this game. Day 1, in a group with a friend also on day 1, and want that to remain viable. Two new players should be able to start the game, grouped up, as I did, and not get put straight into a meat grinder facing off against 12 man competitive house units every round until they split up and join your 'casual queue' and get farmed by you instead, because they are not going to do that, they are just going to quit.

[Navy Sixes]

Boris The Spider, on 24 April 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

Two new players should be able to start the game, grouped up, as I did, and not get put straight into a meat grinder facing off against 12 man competitive house units every round until they split up and join your 'casual queue' and get farmed by you instead, because they are not going to do that, they are just going to quit.

But 2 new solo players, just starting out, should have to face off against 4 man pre-mades, shut up, and L2P? And if they quit, it's "I can haz u stuffz?"

[Pygar]

Tycho von Gagern, on 24 April 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

But 2 new solo players, just starting out, should have to face off against 4 man pre-mades, shut up, and L2P? And if they quit, it's "I can haz u stuffz?"

You have pre-mades on your team that can help you just as often as pre-mades are on the other team. As for the "Get on TS", "Join a Guild" and "L2P" stuff... those of us that say that, are repeating it because we were told this same thing once upon a time, and we learned one way or the other that it is an essential truth in online multiplayer PVP...and really, we are only trying to help you.

Idk what else to say, I forget about the "new player experience" in this game, because my "new player experience" with Mechwarrior happened all the way back in 1989. Maybe what the game really needs is a PVE campaign mode.

Edited by Pygar, 24 April 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Mavairo]

Tycho von Gagern, on 24 April 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

But 2 new solo players, just starting out, should have to face off against 4 man pre-mades, shut up, and L2P? And if they quit, it's "I can haz u stuffz?"

Get TS, and yes L2P. That's pretty much how the rest of us learned every other multiplayer game ever.
Multiplayer games are won on Communication. This doesn't even mean TS either. If people actually pay attention to text when relevant info is put into team chat, you'd be amazed at the cooridination that pugs are capable of.
Some of my biggest curb stomps to enemy forces have come during solo drops with me or someone else relaying info, and strategy to the other PUGs.

Edited by Mavairo, 24 April 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[Revorn]

Nothing agains Premades, They need their Playground aswell. But to be true, i dont need them in a PUg.Game.

[Shatterpoint]

WW8Ball, on 24 April 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Friendship is magic. D/L TeamSpeak

Quit your job and play the game at a convenient hour for every other player so they don't need to wake up other people in the house jabbering away on TeamSpeak at 2-3am.

[InRev]

I don't understand why people are being so hostile towards the OP. Just like pre-mades want to play with their friends, why can't pugs be allowed to play with other pugs? Why can't everyone have a choice?

I don't see how pugs not being matched against pre-mades would negatively affect the pre-made crowd's experience so much as to elicit such vitriol. Honestly, it just seems hypocritical. I'm a solo-pugger and I think the pre-made crowd should be allowed to group with as many people as they want. 2-man, 5-man, 11-man, whatever, give ;em a queue! But where's my reciprocation sans condescension?

[Adiuvo]

InRev, on 24 April 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

I don't understand why people are being so hostile towards the OP. Just like pre-mades want to play with their friends, why can't pugs be allowed to play with other pugs? Why can't everyone have a choice?

I don't see how pugs not being matched against pre-mades would negatively affect the pre-made crowd's experience so much as to elicit such vitriol. Honestly, it just seems hypocritical. I'm a solo-pugger and I think the pre-made crowd should be allowed to group with as many people as they want. 2-man, 5-man, 11-man, whatever, give ;em a queue! But where's my reciprocation sans condescension?

It makes matchmaker times longer if you split queues like that.

These games are generally around 7 minute long. Queue times are long enough already.

[Roadbeer]

Adiuvo, on 24 April 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

It makes matchmaker times longer if you split queues like that.

These games are generally around 7 minute long. Queue times are long enough already.

So, PUGs aren't happy because they have to play against premades
Premades aren't happy because they're limited to 4 or 12 in order to protect the PUGs
Only people happy with the Private Match System are the competitive players.

Seems to me that longer wait times are the least of the problems with the queues.

[Tynan]

InRev, on 24 April 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

I don't understand why people are being so hostile towards the OP. Just like pre-mades want to play with their friends, why can't pugs be allowed to play with other pugs? Why can't everyone have a choice?

I don't see how pugs not being matched against pre-mades would negatively affect the pre-made crowd's experience so much as to elicit such vitriol. Honestly, it just seems hypocritical. I'm a solo-pugger and I think the pre-made crowd should be allowed to group with as many people as they want. 2-man, 5-man, 11-man, whatever, give ;em a queue! But where's my reciprocation sans condescension?

I'm not opposed to this at all (I drop solo 95% of the time) but as long as PGI wants to have all matches be 12v12 other players will have to fill the gap between the premade size and the optimal 12. Personally, though, yeah, I'd love to see some 5v5, 6v6 etc. But I can see where it would cause a serious wait-time issue.

Also, there's the question of what to do with duos and the like. If you want to participate in larger battles with just one friend, is that something that opposing PUGs should be able to avoid? Where should the line be drawn? Not trying to be condescending, mind you, it's an honest question.

[Gyrok]

Sstaan, on 24 April 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Sadly telling people "Use Team Speak" is absurd. Not all PC multi task equally efficiently and "Team Speak" takes alot of bandwidth, which is why many people don't use it. So though I do agree some sort of Voice Communication would help, you really need a machine that can handle it and the game at the same time. Ventrillo works for this too, however it is a paid service so hardly a good option either.

That said a "PuG" only que wouldn't fix anything as you'd be forcing good solo players to play with crappy solo players resulting in alot of people just dropping out of MWO and not returning, a poor solution. Mind, thats how it is now, but other options inbetween matches to form groups, like a live chat server in the game lobby, where we can all congregate would resolve this better.

Honestly I don't think the option to "Opt Out" as the OP put it would solve anything. All you're saying is you're afraid to face them. I say, Bring 'em on! After all, its just a game, win or loose if you're not having fun you should simply go play something else.

Sstaan, on 24 April 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Sadly telling people "Use Team Speak" is absurd. Not all PC multi task equally efficiently and "Team Speak" takes alot of bandwidth, which is why many people don't use it. So though I do agree some sort of Voice Communication would help, you really need a machine that can handle it and the game at the same time. Ventrillo works for this too, however it is a paid service so hardly a good option either.

That said a "PuG" only que wouldn't fix anything as you'd be forcing good solo players to play with crappy solo players resulting in alot of people just dropping out of MWO and not returning, a poor solution. Mind, thats how it is now, but other options inbetween matches to form groups, like a live chat server in the game lobby, where we can all congregate would resolve this better.

Honestly I don't think the option to "Opt Out" as the OP put it would solve anything. All you're saying is you're afraid to face them. I say, Bring 'em on! After all, its just a game, win or loose if you're not having fun you should simply go play something else.

If you have a computer with a quad core CPU that is newer than 4 years old with a 2 Mbps connection or better, then you can play with TS running in the background.

The issue is everyone trying to play the game on a dual core CPU from 4 years ago with that same 2 Mbps internet connection. CryEngine is a fickle master, and you need a PC with some huevos to be able to run it well. An i3 with a $500 GPU does not qualify as a gaming PC by any stretch of the imagination.

The good news is, if you are on a 2-3 year old platform you can likely upgrade really cheaply. Unless there is a big DELL or HP logo on your box...

At which point you should just start nickel and diming for a good PC...$500-600 will build you a machine that can run MWO with little difficulty and run TS in the background.

Hardware is not a limitation for most, but effort is certainly in short supply around here it seems.

[FatYak]

Pygar, on 24 April 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Heck, PUGs don't even have to do all that- they can also just look for premades in their group (there is almost always one) use text chat to ask them the plan, find them on the battlefield and go "Blob Up" with them.

With no pre-mades and no VoIP, you can still accomplish a lot of teamwork in PUGs with map command functions and simple texts like "D-line", "Saddle", and "Push".

Yup

Seriously, at the beginning of any match switch to battle map and watch your team just scatter all over the map. You know in the first 10 seconds if your team has chance or will lose miserably, premades or not.

[Adiuvo]

Roadbeer, on 24 April 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

So, PUGs aren't happy because they have to play against premades
Premades aren't happy because they're limited to 4 or 12 in order to protect the PUGs
Only people happy with the Private Match System are the competitive players.

Seems to me that longer wait times are the least of the problems with the queues.

Actually I'm alright with queues the way they are now, especially once 3/3/3/3 is implemented.

You're not going to hear from the happy people, only the ones who have gripes.

[WVAnonymous]

I will repeat for the manyth time that if they

- started the new players at an Elo of, like 30 or so and then let the competent ones merrily blow their way through the truly incompetent ones (possibly including me, I didn't see a real issue with that alleged Charlie Lance DDC failmech) and

- presumably all these pre-made walking gods are lingering near the top, or at least safely over 1300 Elo

Much of this would be self-correcting.


Edit:

As I have said previously, I will gladly drop as in-fill on any odd-numbered team. Que sera sera.

Edited by WVAnonymous, 24 April 2014 - 04:14 PM.