22 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

Hey folks

While i think that regulating Matchmaker will work, I would like to have a game that is more and more self regulating by the player base.
Of course you have those vanilla munchkins that want to win at any costs.
But what happens if you remove the ground where their victory is founded?

Currently every game is a classical DeathMatch even conquest will hardly change with 3/3/3/3 - maybe Conquest will even suffer.

With similar teams based on tonnage and numbers - the "loadout" becomes more and more important - deal as much damage as possible as fast as possible.

There is hardly a place for a Mech that isn't capable of doing or at least supporting that tas

But what happens if player can't choose the game mode?
You don't know if your Atlas will drop in a "stand and fight" "break through" scenario what may be good - or if you have to drop as a raiding party member - and the task is grab n run (while 18-20 enemy's are hunting your team) - that would be bad.

So a Top Premade Jumpsniping MechHunter team will suck if there task is to - collect informations (scouting)

A Top Premade Wolf Pack - will suck if their task is to destroy a Mech Facitlity...defended by turrets and enemy Mechs.

If you don't know what you face - you have to take Mechs and equipment that is capable of doing any job.

You can also add mission parameters like "drop weight" or "revenue vs costs"

TLDR:
My idea is that the missing knowledge of the victory condition - may change the players attitude away from "specialization" to "generalization"
if the income is also shorten by "repair and rearm" and of course the need for the pilot of that Mech to survive - the feeling or real Battletech combat should be increased.

Sidenote:
you can also add some - "against all odd" bonus systems. for example you drop in an Atlas on a scout mission - where you have collect target data - and afterwards run for your life - if you made the job done and survive against all odds - you get a legendary salary

[El Bandito]

Dragon Slayers with good engine and meta builds can fit into most missions.

[Karl Streiger]

El Bandito, on 25 April 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

Dragon Slayers with good engine and meta builds can fit into most missions.

Lets see:
What about Mission Parameter - get informations of at least 8 enemy Mechs - after you gather those informations you have to flee - with at least 1km between the last friend and the first foe (or breaks LOS for at least 1min)
Works only on bigger maps

(Hidden mission parameters: attacker (scout party) average drop weight 300t somewhere between 4 or 8 mechs.
defender average drop weight 1200t somewhere between 16 and 20 mechs....

when droping with a premade lance of 4 DS...you automatically - reduce the number of available mechs for the attacking party - while increasing the numbers for the defenders....(with reduced weight for each = more speed = harder to break LOS)

[El Bandito]

Karl Streiger, on 25 April 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

Lets see: What about Mission Parameter - get informations of at least 8 enemy Mechs - after you gather those informations you have to flee - with at least 1km between the last friend and the first foe (or breaks LOS for at least 1min) Works only on bigger maps (Hidden mission parameters: attacker (scout party) average drop weight 300t somewhere between 4 or 8 mechs. defender average drop weight 1200t somewhere between 16 and 20 mechs.... when droping with a premade lance of 4 DS...you automatically - reduce the number of available mechs for the attacking party - while increasing the numbers for the defenders....(with reduced weight for each = more speed = harder to break LOS)

Mission parameters are good idea--anything to break the monotony of deathmatches. However, I am not sure about the "can't choose game mode" part. People like to main certain mechs and it might become a real downer if that particular mech is not suitable for the mission.

[Karl Streiger]

El Bandito, on 25 April 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

Mission parameters are good idea--anything to break the monotony of deathmatches. However, I am not sure about the "can't choose game mode" part. People like to main certain mechs and it might become a real downer if that particular mech is not suitable for the mission.

Hey same people may say its a war game....(in their meaning: wiping out the enemy with broken builds and don't give them any chance)
But war means you can be on the receiving end too.

When a invading force landed somewhere - nobody did think about a landing manouver at this location (for example near the steel producing factory in the middle of a vulcan

Your AWS-8Q is the only mech available - in a huge area - intel is needed .. do you say : you Mech is not suitable? Its a still a BattleMech that should cripple an enemy with a single salvo.

[El Bandito]

Karl Streiger, on 25 April 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

Hey same people may say its a war game....(in their meaning: wiping out the enemy with broken builds and don't give them any chance) But war means you can be on the receiving end too. When a invading force landed somewhere - nobody did think about a landing manouver at this location (for example near the steel producing factory in the middle of a vulcan Your AWS-8Q is the only mech available - in a huge area - intel is needed .. do you say : you Mech is not suitable? Its a still a BattleMech that should cripple an enemy with a single salvo.

Crippling enemies with single salvo is not a desirable quality for intel gathering missions. Intel gathering in a huge area with an AWS-8Q (nerfed heavily by PPC heat increase+GH+hill climb) is going to be pretty tedious and risky business. I certainly wouldn't want to be in such situation if I can help it.

I doubt any sensible commander will send an Awesome to do recon. Unless they are Lyrans. xD

Edited by El Bandito, 25 April 2014 - 05:23 AM.

[Sephlock]

El Bandito, on 25 April 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Crippling enemies with single salvo is not a desirable quality for intel gathering missions. Intel gathering in a huge area with an AWS-8Q (nerfed heavily by PPC heat increase+GH+hill climb) is going to be pretty tedious and risky business. I certainly wouldn't want to be in such situation if I can help it.

I doubt any sensible commander will send an Awesome to do recon. Unless they are Lyrans. xD

Lyrans would send an Atlas.

[Karl Streiger]

Sephlock, on 25 April 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Lyrans would send an Atlas.

Not if there isn't an Atlas.... as said - you also can deny to make the intel mission -and fall back. But the enemy can capture, raid or destroy what ever they want uncontested. (so maybe your Awesome is the only thing in an area of hundred of kilometers (its only task was to secure a unimportant fuel depot - or its a test run ..or else.... you have to make contact for the boogies - and record there reactor signatures (in this case - intel gathering) for your Aero Space fighters...that they can drop bombs on them.

Some days you have to take what you get... its pure luxury that we can take the Mechs we want with weapons and equipment we want.
But look in the background...there are dozen of story's where you had to fight invading clans with Commandos or even Wasps...simple because they were everything you had.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sephlock, on 25 April 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Lyrans would send an Atlas.

To slow... Zeus is better suited.

[Sephlock]

Karl Streiger, on 25 April 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Not if there isn't an Atlas.... as said - you also can deny to make the intel mission -and fall back. But the enemy can capture, raid or destroy what ever they want uncontested. (so maybe your Awesome is the only thing in an area of hundred of kilometers (its only task was to secure a unimportant fuel depot - or its a test run ..or else.... you have to make contact for the boogies - and record there reactor signatures (in this case - intel gathering) for your Aero Space fighters...that they can drop bombs on them.

Some days you have to take what you get... its pure luxury that we can take the Mechs we want with weapons and equipment we want.
But look in the background...there are dozen of story's where you had to fight invading clans with Commandos or even Wasps...simple because they were everything you had.

I'd rather send a hovercraft than an MWO Awesome. At least it stands a chance in hell of coming back .

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 April 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

To slow... Zeus is better suited.

Ah Joseph. Do I detect the not so subtle desire to have the Zeus in MWO?

Edited by El Bandito, 25 April 2014 - 05:37 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Guys - you don't get it - its Terror Therma - the crew of that hover craft will be boile before they even make it into that area.
And you can't send anything else because there is nothing - maybe the Commando can make it in 5hrs into that area, or you send your Aersospace forces - but you don't know what there are - maybe there are 12 JagerMechs and a Fortress Dropship. - that will shoot down your fighters before they even have visual contact.

- as commander you can do two things

• give that Awesome pilot an order to commit that suicide mission - but on the other hand you get data that will help you do destroy the invaders
  
• don't do anything - the good: you have the Awesome and its pilot still available and there is no reason to stay on this hell of a planet anylonger - because the enemy raiding party has destroyed the only valuable thing on this rock

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 25 April 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

Ah Joseph. Do I detect the not so subtle desire to have the Zeus in MWO?

Sure... But battle Armor isn't fielded by the Lyrans for a while yet!

[AlmightyAeng]

Karl Streiger, on 24 April 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

Hey folks

While i think that regulating Matchmaker will work, I would like to have a game that is more and more self regulating by the player base.
Of course you have those vanilla munchkins that want to win at any costs.
But what happens if you remove the ground where their victory is founded?

Currently every game is a classical DeathMatch even conquest will hardly change with 3/3/3/3 - maybe Conquest will even suffer.

With similar teams based on tonnage and numbers - the "loadout" becomes more and more important - deal as much damage as possible as fast as possible.

There is hardly a place for a Mech that isn't capable of doing or at least supporting that tas

But what happens if player can't choose the game mode?
You don't know if your Atlas will drop in a "stand and fight" "break through" scenario what may be good - or if you have to drop as a raiding party member - and the task is grab n run (while 18-20 enemy's are hunting your team) - that would be bad.

So a Top Premade Jumpsniping MechHunter team will suck if there task is to - collect informations (scouting)

A Top Premade Wolf Pack - will suck if their task is to destroy a Mech Facitlity...defended by turrets and enemy Mechs.

If you don't know what you face - you have to take Mechs and equipment that is capable of doing any job.

You can also add mission parameters like "drop weight" or "revenue vs costs"

TLDR:
My idea is that the missing knowledge of the victory condition - may change the players attitude away from "specialization" to "generalization"
if the income is also shorten by "repair and rearm" and of course the need for the pilot of that Mech to survive - the feeling or real Battletech combat should be increased.

Sidenote:
you can also add some - "against all odd" bonus systems. for example you drop in an Atlas on a scout mission - where you have collect target data - and afterwards run for your life - if you made the job done and survive against all odds - you get a legendary salary

So...you're asking for these? Right on.

[Karl Streiger]

Ghost Badger, on 25 April 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

So...you're asking for these? Right on.

Dunno - maybe?
First i read something about an exiting idea for a game i would like to play - than i saw the posting date.

With a working Role System - my "suggestion" wouldn't be necessary.

To describe - "my" idea in a sentence: would be something like this:
"Take what you can get - and make it work"

Instead of a "random assigment" for Mechs you have a "random assigment" for Victory Conditions. You don't need "even" teams because - you have a bunch of mission parameters.
So you don't need even tonnage or even ELO.

Hell I would like to have a system where even the chance is given that you don't drop in "your" Mech. - because that guy in the Logistic of your Drop Ship - has placed your Mech behind 130 Billion of cans with kidney beans

So you have to take a BlackJack rather than your CN9 (because that other logistic guy thinks medium mech is a medium Mech)
And because you were send to overwatch "pioneer" actions - at the back door.....but than the "brown" hit the fan -
and you have to hold the pass - vs the 20 incomming BattleMechs - at least for 2minutes.

Impossible? Of course - but its your chance to get immortal

[Lyoto Machida]

I'd love something like this...would definitely make things interesting and more challenging.
Maybe allow an opt in system and double rewards for mechwarriors that choose the greater challenge? People that still want to play their matches knowing what they are going into can still do so with normal rewards.

[DeadlyNerd]

Whatever happened to battlevalue? As in the ORIGINAL and WORKING way of balancing mechs. Take a mech with too much guns and you'll end up in a team of pacifists. Why is that so hard for PGI to understand?

A 2xAC/5,2x/AC2,5xML banshee is 528BV in weaponry, 2xPPC,AC/20 misery is 595 BV (2.0, counting 3t ammo for each weapon) in weaponry. A CTF-IM with 3x UAC5 and 4xML is 588 BV in weaponry.

Point here is that a heavy with such firepower could easily be paired up with assaults and not other heavies.
There's no such thing as "skill" when one is using a meta build.

We wouldn't need this 3/3/3/3, or Elo, crap if BV was being used.

It's frustrating to see that there's an existent and proven principle of balancing out battle tech, yet it's no being used in a game that needs to stick to BT as close as possible, just because there's an idiot trying to prove a point.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 28 April 2014 - 02:19 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Problem is that you must throw the TT BV out of the window.
Principle is simple:
Your 2 AC 5 is not 2 AC 5 its a
AC 10 with the range of the AC 5.
Dual PPC is not the PPC its a PPC 20

and so on.
Wait wait wait - i never fire my PPCs with a single press of my mouse button - wait wait wait if i fire 3 PPC the ghost heat appears....

There are so many factors that are far away from the proven BV2.

And last not least - the BV - isn't able to cover all circumstances (You can have a AWS-8Q, JM6-S, Assassin and CDA-2A - and you get wiped out - even when your enemy has lower BV - simple because of the combination of minimum range and lacking firepower in your team)

In a not random assigned TT scenario - that is based on Seek and Destroy (deathmatch) - you will always try to take Mechs with fire power - you won't sport with the Assassin (not without modifications - for more short range fire power and armor)

My very idea is - to have a MWO game mode - where even the "low" rated Assassin or even a UrbanMech may find its place.

[Magna Canus]

These are the kind of things that fit well in any TT game where you can create a ton of scenario's that are rich and interesting. Without CW MWO is currently only an E-Sport. Give me a Clan Invasion to repel, give me my Capellan March to defend, give me Comstar's secret army to fight, and the OP makes sense.

In war time it is rare that you are not going to have at least some inclination of what you are supposed to do. Anything else and your leadership is severely lacking. Spies gather info on troop movements on the border. Command centers calculate how many jumps it would take for force X to hit the world you are defending. The garrison placed on that world has some tactic in mind and the mechs available to follow that tactic. REAL BT is just as much a game of chess as it is blasting face in a drop zone. So, while the OP is a neat and novel idea, I would rather have CW instead.

[DeadlyNerd]

Karl Streiger, on 28 April 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Problem is that you must throw the TT BV out of the window.
Principle is simple:
Your 2 AC 5 is not 2 AC 5 its a
AC 10 with the range of the AC 5.
Dual PPC is not the PPC its a PPC 20

and so on.

that's an AC10 weighing 18 tons, not 12. 50% more

you can't throw BV out the window because it regulates your alpha strike capability, which is basically the meta.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 28 April 2014 - 02:41 AM.