32 replies to this topic

[Razegerogero]

Heya,

First off I'd like to point out that I stopped playing a bit over a year ago. It was a haphazard time of doom & gloom over the to-be-introduced consumables and PPC poppin' being the staple of 90% of competitive game. The former turned out to be no game-changer and the latter has somewhat been reduced, giving more room to brawlers and so.

Hence, all in all, I am quite satisfied with playing MW:O again and have been having a blast!

Regardless, I can't help but to wonder about what the cost winds up being to playing competitively while enjoying an occasional hero mech and more mech bays. As the premium private matches are likely to become somewhat necessary for tournaments and so, and one may not always be able to trust on someone else on your group having a premium account, you might wind up paying upwards to 100 euros (and a bit more in USD) a year to premium alone.

So, if you buy 30 days premium 11 times a year (skipping a month for some off-MWO vacation!) for two years, you're already paying 200 euros/276 USD. Get a new medium/heavy/assault hero mech (mostly from sales) every 4 months, an occasional mech bay, and that's, maybe, 100 euros/138 USD on top of it. So that's already 300 euros for two years, an amount of money with which you could buy from 5 to 6 spankin' new games. This is excluding paint jobs and MC-costing consumables.

Now then: Is there then going to be more content for which you need to pay extra when Clans come and when Community Warfare comes? And am I horribly wrong in my calculations, or are there some hidden costs I didn't take into account when playing (semi-)-competitively and wanting to boost the experience with occasional real-money content?

I do like the game a lot, but can't really put 300 bucks into a single game, even if it lasts me two or more years. (Though, I suppose, that you can try and split that premium time amongst different players of your group when playing premium private matches and try to cut down buying mech bays and new hero mechs..)

[Creovex]

Truth be told: The one thing I give PGI the most credit for is that this game has really stayed true to the F2P ideal, not the on P2W ideal that most companies actually use when claiming F2P.

As for the 300$ for 2 years comment.... If you ever played an MMO over the last 15 years, 15$ per a month x 24 months = $360 for the 2 years. So overall you are paying less than the average monthly cost of a top tier MMO if you put in the 300$ in this game over the 2 year time.

Honestly, I think this game should go ahead and open up a reoccurring subscriber option that includes premium time and a monthly stipend of MC (say 500, cost of a new paint per a/2 month(s) ie. see other games like Planetside2/SWTOR/STO that does this and so forth) then you would see a ton more people shelling out money. Simple truth is you feel like you get more when you see in F2P games money to spend AND bonuses to XP, etc.

Out of all my years of gaming I always found it's easier to rationalize low dollar monthly purchases ($15 or less) in a game then the bulk purchase at "when you need it times" that makes spending more into the game a hesitation. However, this could be just due to my gaming history and not being fully comfortable with the F2P mechanic as you spend when you need it attitude.

Thoughts?

[Chemie]

You forgot to mention your premium time is useless because 50% bonus on zero is zero. Add in a bunch of MC to buy CB assuming you want to buy consumables, DHS, engines and weapons.

Not paying CB in 12v12 private matches in plain pay-2-play mechanic. There will not be "gaming the system" when it takes 24 people to make a 12v12 private match.

This forces players into the public queue but there you are only allowed 1 team per side...which forces you to pug to avoid long wait times.

PGI logic: "You want to play as a team? Sure. Pay premium and pug most the time.to allow you to play 12v12". Great. GG Close.

[Razegerogero]

Creovex, on 25 April 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

Truth be told: The one thing I give PGI the most credit for is that this game has really stayed true to the F2P ideal, not the on P2W ideal that most companies actually use when claiming F2P.

As for the 300$ for 2 years comment.... If you ever played an MMO over the last 15 years, 15$ per a month x 24 months = $360 for the 2 years. So overall you are paying less than the average monthly cost of a top tier MMO if you put in the 300$ in this game over the 2 year time.

I don't play MMOs really and don't follow the scene, so can't comment on their cost. But I played Neverwinter Nights for 10 years. Good worth for 50 bucks.

You're right in upkeeping to the F2P ideal and not sinking into Pay-to-Win. No need to pay a dime to be 100% competitive on the actual battlefield. However, as a F2P player, you do get some options fully cut off from you. That doesn't bother me per say though. I'm more than willing to throw bills to the developers of any good game that I enjoyed. But 300 for two years is a lot for me and at the same time, I can't help but to think that a lot of people from poorer parts of Europe or Southern America or Asia are completely cut off from the competitive scene with that high a price.

Creovex, on 25 April 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

Out of all my years of gaming I always found it's easier to rationalize low dollar monthly purchases ($15 or less) in a game then the bulk purchase at "when you need it times" that makes spending more into the game a hesitation. However, this could be just due to my gaming history and not being fully comfortable with the F2P mechanic as you spend when you need it attitude.

Thoughts?

Yah. I, personally, on the other hand, am the opposite - I prefer throwing 50 bucks once to a game after trying out its demo/checking some YouTube videos about it, and then playing it until I move on to other games.

What really more worries me is that if I spend more money now to MWO (I already have some 60 dollars, more than what BF4 without map packs or FIFA 14 or NHL 14 would cost), will I wind up later realizing that there are now suddenly more requirements to put money into in order to get enough content to keep me satisfied and to be able to play competitively (premium private matches being an example of mandatory money sink for certain kind of players)?

Regardless, from what I understand, MWO is very far off from the most expensive F2P game. And the actual battles, are certainly F2P, not P2W.

Edited by Razegerogero, 25 April 2014 - 03:48 AM.

[Onmyoudo]

I think I wouldn't mind paying £30 - £40 or so per couple hundred hours spent. I often get such numbers out of the games I enjoy (600+ on CK2, 700+ on CiV etc) and I'll happily pick up CK2 or CiV DLC as soon as it's available because I know I've gotten my worth out of them, and will continue to do so.

With MWO I would like to spend some money and get some stuff. They've done great with not making it P2W, which is key, but the high prices for literally everything bar possibly mechbays is proving and insurmountable barrier to entry for me. I also don't know my time played (about 17 hours since the last reset, going from mech stats) but I'd wager I've easily spent enough to warrant another £30+ spent on MWO. The only thing keeping me back is that that wouldn't even buy me a single mech, if I wanted something heavy. Doesn't seem like good value, even with the amount of time I've spent in game so far.

Also sorry for the slightly OT reply.

[Avimimus]

Different people have different expectations.

As for me - I would purchase a lot more content if it was exactly half the price. I have a pretty good feel for what things are worth to me and it always comes out to about that range.

I've never used premium time because I don't play frequently enough or competitively enough to make long periods of play interesting (so any premium time would be wasted).

I generally play offline single-player games. I don't play MMOs.

Basically, PGI only makes money from me via mechbays. Given their fiscal design, I am not their audience.

I, and a lot of gamers, are outside of their market and they aren't making money optimally from us.

[Razegerogero]

It's pretty much the same for me.. There's a lot I'd like to buy, but simply don't have the extra money to, when there are other things to buy with more value-per-hour. I could technically invest to frequent premium time, but I'm afraid of any up-coming new costs that again increase the amount I need to spend to MW:O.

Paints at 3rd the price and rest at roughly half would tempt me to really take that leap of trust towards PGI and spend more into the game than I now have. I'd imagine that this would also draw people who simply can not spend money right now to MW:O, to spend some to it. Majority of world's population -- and a lot even from Europe and USA -- don't have the choice to spend enough money to MW:O to both enter competitive play and get occasional new hero mech, as they simply don't make that much extra in a month.

Edited by Razegerogero, 25 April 2014 - 04:49 AM.

[Creovex]

Avimimus, on 25 April 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

I, and a lot of gamers, are outside of their market and they aren't making money optimally from us.

You are right and wrong. You may not be a direct source of cash flow but by playing you support the key to all real F2P games: playerbase. Without a bunch of people then you would never queue and not have matches. So you don't throw money around... it doesn't matter because the fact the non-payers are present provides the opponents and teammates for matches. Without you, I will not a game worth playing. The intangible asset you provide is just as valuable as a few bucks someone like me pays. But for say every 50 of you (and he'll you might even throw in a few dollars here or there), along comes one of me. And that is how the game CAN become very profitable.

Edited by Creovex, 25 April 2014 - 06:52 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Creovex, on 25 April 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

Truth be told: The one thing I give PGI the most credit for is that this game has really stayed true to the F2P ideal, not the on P2W ideal that most companies actually use when claiming F2P.

Err... Ember, Dragon Slayer... Misery... what?

[Redshift2k5]

I thinki most tournament play can be handled just fine in free private matches. you still get 12vs 12, no wieght class limit, with lobby system for matching and organizing (as opposed to using the 12 vs 12 random queue)

If you want something like solaris play, then yes, you need premium time. You're using a server slot meant for 24 players for a significantly smaller number of players, so yeah, you need to pay up (they may switch to a tickets system and not premium time)

Even if you insist on using premium proivate matches for tournaments, only the team captains need premium time, so you don't need any one player with premium time active 365 days a year or whatever.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 25 April 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[Creovex]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Err... Ember, Dragon Slayer... Misery... what?

All junk. Hero mechs are nice, but I don't know a single one that isn't beat out by a c-bill variant with upgrades.... smurfys site makes hero mechs mostly about less grinding but doesn't give you an "I win" easy button.

[Mister Blastman]

Creovex, on 25 April 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

All junk. Hero mechs are nice, but I don't know a single one that isn't beat out by a c-bill variant with upgrades.... smurfys site makes hero mechs mostly about less grinding but doesn't give you an "I win" easy button.

LOL. You sure know a lot, I tell ya. Where can I hire you?

There is a reason that those three mechs are used at the top-level of competitive play, every day. A BIG one.

[Kyynele]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Err... Ember, Dragon Slayer... Misery... what?

I'm happy that your skill is so great that you manage not to lose matches in these mechs. I regularly kill several of these in my C-Bill bought mechs, P2W didn't work for them.

(I have all the hero mechs you mentioned, and none of them belongs to my list of 5 favorite mechs. Ember is lots of fun, though.)

[Kaldor]

Creovex, on 25 April 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

You are right and wrong. You may not be a direct source of cash flow but by playing you support the key to all real F2P games: playerbase. Without a bunch of people then you would never queue and not have matches. So you don't throw money around... it doesn't matter because the fact the non-payers are present provides the opponents and teammates for matches. Without you, I will not a game worth playing. The intangible asset you provide is just as valuable as a few bucks someone like me pays. But for say every 50 of you (and he'll you might even throw in a few dollars here or there), along comes one of me. And that is how the game CAN become very profitable.

Can I like this 1000 times?

Playerbase is the most important asset in a F2P game. Thats why I tell people if you really want change, you cant vote with your wallet. Just stop playing. I did, for almost a year. Now I play 20 matches or so a week when I feel the need to blow off some steam.

[Mister Blastman]

Kyynele, on 25 April 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

I'm happy that your skill is so great that you manage not to lose matches in these mechs. I regularly kill several of these in my C-Bill bought mechs, P2W didn't work for them.

(I have all the hero mechs you mentioned, and none of them belongs to my list of 5 favorite mechs. Ember is lots of fun, though.)

I don't own any of them. But what I do know is their capabilities in competitive play.

[Ultimax]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Err... Ember, Dragon Slayer... Misery... what?

Sometimes Mech's win the lottery on some tiny quirk the developers hadn't considered.

The Boar's Head is nearly identical in load out to the misery.
In fact it has an additional energy slot, more tonnage and more armor - and yet no one would consider the Boar's Head "pay to win". (Well maybe someone would, but they'd be silly)

The DS is great if all you want to do is play captain poptart all day, everyday. The instant you want to put an AC 20 into that right arm and brawl - suddenly it's not the mech you want.


We could also list all of the Hero mechs that are downright awful, but really what's the point.

I've played games that have sunk to the depths of pay to win - this game is not one of them.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 25 April 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Hobo Dan]

Ultimatum X, on 25 April 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

The DS is great if all you want to do is play captain poptart all day, everyday. The instant you want to put an AC 20 into that right arm and brawl - suddenly it's not the mech you want.

Not to nitpick (ok I am nitpicking) but you can't fit an AC/20 in the DS's arm.

Anyways, onto topic, I really feel that for the groups that plan on doing the most with Private matches, they won’t have many issues paying for them through fund raising. Though I agree it doesn’t make sense to tie c-bill bonus premium time to private matches were you don’t earn c-bills.

If I recall, isn’t the premium time to play custom private matches is placeholder for another method?

Edited by Hobo Dan, 25 April 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Ultimatum X, on 25 April 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Sometimes Mech's win the lottery on some tiny quirk the developers hadn't considered.

The Boar's Head is nearly identical in load out to the misery.
In fact it has an additional energy slot, more tonnage and more armor - and yet no one would consider the Boar's Head "pay to win". (Well maybe someone would, but they'd be silly)

The DS is great if all you want to do is play captain poptart all day, everyday. The instant you want to put an AC 20 into that right arm and brawl - suddenly it's not the mech you want.


We could also list all of the Hero mechs that are downright awful, but really what's the point.

I've played games that have sunk to the depths of pay to win - this game is not one of them.

I believe the Dragon Slayer was built for pop-tarting from day one. Why else would Paul say things like he has on NGNG podcasts like, "Pinpoint 30 pt damage is fine." Truth be told, he likes the mess we have with the game at the moment.

The Ember... those machine guns... Nastiness. Alone... not so bad... in a pack of three or four? Bye bye legs.

Machine guns aren't OP, either. Just that it is the only light that can mount them and the end result--which is huge, that's a big deal.

The Misery--it is the only Stalker you can basically put the brunt of your firepower on one side and use the other side as a shield. The biggest weakness of any Stalker is the huge side torsos. Anyone who uses a Stalker knows the sides get blown off fast and are a primary weakness for them in a brawl. The Misery dramatically negates this by putting everything important on one side.

[FupDup]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

The Ember... those machine guns... Nastiness. Alone... not so bad... in a pack of three or four? Bye bye legs.

Machine guns aren't OP, either. Just that it is the only light that can mount them and the end result--which is huge, that's a big deal.

I think the Ember's true recipe for success is the combination of MGs and MLas. Having just MGs is terrible (see Spider 5K), and having just MLas is okay but gets fairly hot (see Jenner). But when you put the two together, you get the best of both worlds and both complement on another (MLas break armor and have range, MGs eat internals and let you do damage while cooling down).

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

The Misery--it is the only Stalker you can basically put the brunt of your firepower on one side and use the other side as a shield. The biggest weakness of any Stalker is the huge side torsos. Anyone who uses a Stalker knows the sides get blown off fast and are a primary weakness for them in a brawl. The Misery dramatically negates this by putting everything important on one side.

No to mention the ballistic hardpoint it has, which lets it combine the heat-saving power of ballistics with the great damage-per-tonnage energy weapons.

[Creovex]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

LOL. You sure know a lot, I tell ya. Where can I hire you?

There is a reason that those three mechs are used at the top-level of competitive play, every day. A BIG one.

Top level huh? Of whose ladder? Every Mechwarrior game I hear claims of fame but this one is the least valid since you a) don't have dedicated server control ping averaging and c) even a real mechanic for map and spawn rotation these top tier assessments are not facts but more like general on census till the next patch.

Note: Having said what I have, with all do respect to those trying to play competitively, I applaud your efforts. As a former CAL, TWL, TGL etc player I wish you the best.

Edited by Creovex, 25 April 2014 - 07:45 AM.