1821 replies to this topic

[Malleus011]

Really enjoyed the videos. I didn't see the Awesome Duel when it happened - now that's comedy.

[Lead Sponge]

Rushin Roulette, on 29 April 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

I would love to, together with my unit... however afraid the timezone problem would mess up my Tuesdays pretty royally... the fights are planned to start at 3:30AM local time which would mean I would probably look similar to this the next day;

Yeah. The time zone kind of sucks for me too. I'm Central European Time. Would you mind if I organize something like this for Sundays? I could call it Succession Wars Sundays or something.

[TygerLily]

Lead Sponge, on 20 July 2014 - 03:17 AM, said:

Yeah. The time zone kind of sucks for me too. I'm Central European Time. Would you mind if I organize something like this for Sundays? I could call it Succession Wars Sundays or something.

Absolutely! Any registered user can add to the MechForce: Classic calendar!



That's just short of SIX full 12 vs 12 matchups!

7/21 let's all be there!

Edited by TygerLily, 20 July 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Another split-screen match from last week. Special thanks to NWStraith for his video:

http://mwomercs.com/...30#entry3574730

[CyclonerM]

Can i use a stock Timberwolf?

[Tesunie]

CyclonerM, on 21 July 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

Can i use a stock Timberwolf?

Depends upon if people wish to play all tech, tech lvl 1, or to split the group into the two categories.

We've done Clan vs IS matches before...

[Rhaythe]

Stock Mech Eras (Wednesday and Saturday groups) will generally run IS vs Clan matches. Typically, Monday night is reserved more for Tech 1

[TygerLily]

CyclonerM, on 21 July 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

Can i use a stock Timberwolf?

Yes! We have two kinds of dropships (rooms) on the Teamspeak: Tech 1 and All Tech.

Tech 2 is any stock with AMS, Streaks, Pulse, ER, Double Heat Sinks, XL, Artemis, NARC, TAG, UAC, LBX, Gauss, ECM, Ferro, or Endo. Tech 1 dropships are...well, Tech 1 only!

All Tech is anything goes! So Clan vs Clan....Clan vs IS (Tech 1 AND 2)...IS vs IS...

When last I tried Clan vs IS, I think we ended up trying five Clan vs eight IS (a Star vs two Lances) and we still needed to give IS 150 tons before the matches felt "even". But who knows, since pilot skill is a huge factor.

[TygerLily]

7/21 Stock Mech Monday

Show your support for Stock Mech Monday's EU Edition players!

Usually this turnout is light...Even if you just sit on the Teamspeak so that wayward stock players can poke you, it will go a long way toward getting a good crew going!

7pm CEST (1pm EST)

Teamspeak
184.82.141.207
PW: StranaMechty

Edited by TygerLily, 21 July 2014 - 08:52 AM.

[Sergey Kosinskiy]

Well this was fun. But raven is op:)
And its a little bit hard on stomps. I mean 3-4 game in a row. Yes its still GG(well for me), but we did lose someone because of that.

[Tesunie]

We need to have a better pilot rotation till we find that proper challenge between teams. I'm thinking (what we started to do near the end, but never actually did) is have the two top damage dealers per match (or stomp) switch places. If we notice it's the same two people, then we pick top damage dealer of winning team with second top on losing team.

The issue isn't always about skill levels, it's sometimes just certain people and how they work together. This is the hardest part to gauge in a situation such as this.

[TygerLily]

Tesunie, on 21 July 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

We need to have a better pilot rotation till we find that proper challenge between teams. I'm thinking (what we started to do near the end, but never actually did) is have the two top damage dealers per match (or stomp) switch places. If we notice it's the same two people, then we pick top damage dealer of winning team with second top on losing team.

The issue isn't always about skill levels, it's sometimes just certain people and how they work together. This is the hardest part to gauge in a situation such as this.

Sergey kosinskiy, on 21 July 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

Well this was fun. But raven is op:)
And its a little bit hard on stomps. I mean 3-4 game in a row. Yes its still GG(well for me), but we did lose someone because of that.

Yea...it all comes down to the fact that in private matches we are able to skip Elo ratings in favor of customizing our gameplay. The only way to balance is trial and error, etc.

[Carl Avery]

Sergey kosinskiy, on 21 July 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

And its a little bit hard on stomps. I mean 3-4 game in a row. Yes its still GG(well for me), but we did lose someone because of that.

I was on the dealing -- not the receiving -- end of those stomps, and I was very uncomfortable about it. The team that I was on won every match that night, and we played for hours. This is a problem. I've retired from public matches indefinitely because of how poorly balanced they are (having played more than 7000 public matches); I play stock matches primarily because they have better 'mech balance, and we have the opportunity to provide ourselves with better skill-pool balance as well.

Last week, if you recall, when I was on the winning team every match during our several-hour session, I continually tried to suggest that we balance the teams. (I dislike being on the dealing end of a ROFLstomp about as much as I dislike being on the receiving end; I want a fair and balanced match, always.) Although some people did make an effort to change sides to balance it, I must say that I felt a large degree of resistance and -- perhaps I'm oversensitive -- resentment toward my urging. Some players indicated that there was offence taken due to my designation of pilots I recognized as "heavy hitters," whom I feel should be evenly distributed between teams.

As I said, I quit public matches because of the poor balance. Stock matches don't need to be poorly balanced, in part because we have the ability to self-balance. If stock matches are going to be poorly balanced in spite of this, I'm going to lose my incentive to attend. I had to question today whether I even wanted to show up for tonight's stock event (assuming there even is one -- they seem to be getting smaller and smaller); I'll be there, but I'm not going to be having my former "play until the last person leaves, no matter how well it goes" attitude. If people give me dirty looks when I ask to balance the teams, I'm out. And -- bluntly -- stock matches can't afford to be pointlessly alienating players. They're already pretty damn small.



P.S. Tesunie, I do recognize that it isn't solely about individual skill; what 'mechs everyone's running plays a big part, as does how well people simply mesh, either naturally or by virtue of having played together a lot. However, an individual pilot's success rate is an easy thing for me to identify when I've observed (particularly from the receiving end) their play for many matches over several weeks, and so this is the first place I go. I really don't mean to step on any toes when I point out that I recognize certain pilots as being especially dangerous, and I believe it's required that we acknowledge them for game balance. It should have nothing to do with ego.

(For example, I've considered myself a "heavy hitter" up to this point, but now that I've quit MWO except for these two stock events every week, I'm quickly going to fall out of practice -- likely to the point where I'll be unable to qualify myself as a heavy hitter. I don't have any problem with myself not being regarded as a heavy hitter, once I've rusted to the level where I am not a significantly greater battlefield threat than the average player in our matches. If everyone had this attitude of blunt assessment for balance purposes, without regard for ego, things would be much smoother, both in public and in stock matches.)

Edited by Carl Avery, 26 July 2014 - 06:16 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

I think I was playing in those stomps that Carl was speaking about. In that night we had few players and Carl paired with some of his friends in 2 ravens and we just couldn`t stop them, after few games it was even worst as thay begin to play team work real well. My trebuchet was leged in the secends when 2 ravens jumped on me.
So far speaking I think the problem thare was lack of players, as those two ravens even so good would not have so much impact on game resolve. So yeah balance can be more tricky if we have few.
And I dont recall nobody getting bad fellings about who is "heavy hitter" and who is not, we was more joking about it, like you know "**** Carl sed im heavy hitter be afraid" or something in that regard, you know just joking about, never felt any bad fellings no whare.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 26 July 2014 - 07:20 PM.

[Carl Avery]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 26 July 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

I think I was playing in those stomps that Carl was speaking about. In that night we had few players and Carl paired with some of his friends in 2 ravens and we just couldn`t stop them, after few games it was even worst as thay begin to play team work real well. My trebuchet was leged in the secends when 2 ravens jumped on me.

Yeah, I remember that match. And, sure enough, I did tell Hydra, "Get inside Jaeger's minimum range and go for the legs!" We couldn't have done that with such impunity if you'd been in one of your better 'mechs (your Orion or even your Dragon would have been able to handle us better), or if your team had been able to back you up, but -- yes, clearly, in this case, the two Ravens attacking a single 'mech with minimal close-range defenses was rough.

However, for the most part, Hydra and I weren't even working together much that night -- much of the time, I even had my mic & speakers muted. Normally, I would have been happy to have Hydra and I split up onto different teams, but the only way I can get Hydra to play SMM is if he can be on my team. : /
I was hoping that having more "heavy hitters" (as well as the other two-man group) on the other team could balance it out, but I had a hard time getting the guys on my team to acknowledge that there was a balance problem, and one of the more experienced players had to be on our team because he was our premium timer.

Jaeger Gonzo, on 26 July 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

And I dont recall nobody getting bad fellings about who is "heavy hitter" and who is not

It was actually some people on our team's channel, so you couldn't hear that part of the conversation -- someone took issue with my explaining that our team had more "heavy hitters" than the other team -- seemed to think I was being elitist & arrogant. I'm just trying to make sure that everyone gets a balanced match.

Someone suggested the "gym class" method of two team captains taking turns picking players, but I really don't like that one because the people who get picked last are clearly implied to be scrubs. There's a world of difference between pointing out that X player is exceptionally good, and pointing out that Y player is exceptionally bad.

There's got to be a way of balancing the teams reasonably well (at least so that you don't get one team winning every single game), without having to rate (subjectively or objectively) all the players on a scale of "leet" to "scrub." I'm more than happy to try the idea of trading top-damage for lowest-damage every match -- even good players sometimes get low damage, so shouldn't be any hurt feelings there. (Sometimes I get top damage and sometimes I get lowest damage; maybe it depends on what kind of day I'm having!)

Edited by Carl Avery, 26 July 2014 - 08:04 PM.

[Tesunie]

What I saw personally was a lot of suggestions and talk, but no one did any switching of team players. I know I don't rightly care which team I'm on. Toss me on the other team if you wish.


I'm starting to think we should toss weight balance to the side. We need to balance skill with the mech, and not weight on each team. I'm considering we might want to just have people go in with a mech, and stay with that mech. Then, as they shift from team to team through any kind of rotation system, their skill to that mech will remain the same. If one side eventually gains a tonnage bonus, so what? As we saw towards the end matches (when it was 3 vs 3 ), tonnage isn't everything. (We also learn a valuable lesson... take me out of the 4J, and I'm a toothless kitten!)


We need to divise a rotation system, and system, and stick with it for a single SMM event. If it works, repeat. If not, we devise another system to try next week.

Personally, I like the concept of just moving the top (non-captain premium time holders) damage dealer of the winning team to the other team. Eventually, from power of more members even, the teams will either see balance, or we will see one person get changed over from one team to another (which is when we know we have achieved balance). If people are in assigned (by themselves of course) mechs for the event, their skills shouldn't vary any, and then we wont have to worry about trying to take time to balance team tonnages. We could literally go from a match, switch the highest damage dealer from the winner to the other team, and jump into a new match very quickly. (If the teams are actually full, which hasn't been happening, we can switch top damage dealer with lowest damage dealer.)

This is one suggestion. Always open to other ones if anyone wishes to present any others. (This system also prevents any kind of possible hurt feelings from certain people being labeled as "Heavy Hitters", which I can say I didn't find offensive myself.) However, we need to make a decision on what we are doing, and stick with it. We keep talking about things, but taking no action.


PS: This Monday, I wont be able to join as I'm going to be busy all day. Sorry.

Edited by Tesunie, 26 July 2014 - 09:00 PM.

[Malleus011]

I'm all for regular shuffling of pilots - perhaps swap highest of the winning team for lowest of the losing team?

If people are in a 'pair' that's fine too, just swap the pair.

Looking forward to more Stock Mech coolness.

[Rhaythe]

I think we should give that a shot tonight. Top two damage-dealers on the winning team swap teams with the bottom two on the opposite team. Keep in mind this is not indicative of skill, and nor should it feel like it is. It's just a way to keep the teams shuffling.

[Tesunie]

Rhaythe, on 28 July 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

I think we should give that a shot tonight. Top two damage-dealers on the winning team swap teams with the bottom two on the opposite team. Keep in mind this is not indicative of skill, and nor should it feel like it is. It's just a way to keep the teams shuffling.

Top two might be a little too much depending upon team sizes. If we are running two teams of five, that's almost half the team being switched.

I feel that two players per team switching would be too much too fast, and continue to lead to imbalanced teams. Of course, this is only my opinion.

[Straith]

Edited by Straith, 28 July 2014 - 08:20 PM.