1821 replies to this topic

[TygerLily]

Grisha, on 01 July 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

Your right Tyger, We've had this discussion before I guess. We just need to work on the implementation I suppose. Sorry for beating the horse carcass again.

Discussion is good!

[General Taskeen]

I think someone was running an pseudo-urban on Wednesday, but they ran it once as a joke was all. We were all chatting on TS and we got into a discussion about an UrbanMech and how we'd all like to see it actually added to the game so we could use it on Stock Days lol.

But, just so everyone is aware, there is no pseudo-urban allowed on that day. The only mechs i have defined as buildable are found in links on the list used for that day, I know some people said they had trouble accessing that list and I may post a secondary thread on the mechforce forums much like TygerLily's list when I have time.

But in any case, everyone has been awesome and honest about running the Stock 'Mechs allowed on these days, there hasn't been any trouble with that from what I have seen. Always super fun and to me is the best gameplay in this game.

[Harathan]

Ok. I could've misunderstood what I was being told. If I get any more details I'll elaborate, otherwise nevermind.

Edited by Harathan, 01 July 2014 - 06:43 AM.

[TygerLily]

General Taskeen, on 01 July 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

I know some people said they had trouble accessing that list and I may post a secondary thread on the mechforce forums much like TygerLily's list when I have time.

Really? I wonder why...The link on the site just jumps to a forum post. And the permissions are such that even an unregistered member can view the forums.

[General Taskeen]

TygerLily, on 01 July 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

Really? I wonder why...The link on the site just jumps to a forum post. And the permissions are such that even an unregistered member can view the forums.

Lol, sorry I'm at work and dead tired. What I meant is people are having trouble accessing this list for Wed, so I'm going to make a "forum" version of it like yours.

[TygerLily]

General Taskeen, on 01 July 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Lol, sorry I'm at work and dead tired. What I meant is people are having trouble accessing this list for Wed, so I'm going to make a "forum" version of it like yours.

Oh, haha. Roger that...I think that would be a good idea!

[Tesunie]

Grisha, on 01 July 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

So here's a few thoughts....

1. Set a standardized drop weight, Somewhere around 55-70 tons per person. So the team one moderator sets it and then what ever the team sizes are that's the weight it is. (reason: trying to match tonnage on the fly can be frustrating and time consuming.

2. Set up a standardized map rotation. (reason: lessen the time between drops, everyone has the list and can plan what potential mechs they want to bring to what map earlier in the day).

3. Randomize the teams at the outset, but ensure at least one able in-battle leaders are on each team. While I like to help with the lobby and invites, I know I suck at actually leading a battle, I tend to get distracted by what I am doing and forget to actually call the battle. But we do have more than a couple of guys that excel at calling the battles. There really needs to be one on each team. and if there are more than one per team, they can alternate battles.

Also, I believe that splitting single unit team members up as much as possible is important. My unit has a lot of people that participate, we have players of all skill ranges and that at times can weight a battle in either direction. I also know that there is no way to completely avoid this. So I'm not sure how to balance the teams by skill. I do kind of like the alphabetical team picks but other than that I don't know.

I believe we can solve some of the chaos if we devote some brain cells to this and come up with a general consensus and actually implement them into the rule set. I know we want to keep it as simple as possible with as few rules as possible, but we have to speed up this process of drops or it will stagnate as people experience the delays.

Grisha

1. I agree with a standard per person weight tonnage limit (creating the team limit). However (personally speaking), I actually don't mind a few off tonnage matches. I recall last week we ended up with an all Hunchback fight vs whatever the other team wished to do. I don't believe we match tonnages all that much. Was a lot of fun! As long as things are close, I don't see much problems.
What may be actually more helpful is if people "sign up" with a certain mech. They use that mech for the whole even, and tonnage balance be ignored. This could create some rather interesting matches, particularly if you have (team captains excluded) the person with the best "match result" (be that damage/kills/etc, determine what this is) be shifted to the other team. This should help balance skill levels (as theoretically the "best" player would be getting bounced from team to team, creating a lot of variety). Then, we also don't have to worry about tonnage balance, as that person is in an assigned mech(s?). Yes, the "better/winning" team would have an increased challenge, but that is the point. Eventually the deck will become so stacked against them they they would have to lose (or show just how amazing they are), and the team balance would start to shift into the other direction.
(Matching tonnage was difficult at times. Though I only have my 50 ton 4J to bring, other people kept jumping mechs to balance, only to find the other team changed tonnages again... creating a series of "You match me. No you match me. No, you match me!" events.)

2. I don't mind a map rotation, but I kinda don't like people having the power to "pick the best mech for this map". It doesn't feel very "lore" correct, and we are playing to lore. Are we not? Either random maps, or losing team chooses. (Or mass vote/desire to play on a certain map.) Only ones that should be able to "pick a mech for the map" I feel should be the Clans, as they could quickly change mechs that easily (literally the same mechs, just with different weapon pods tossed in). (Once more, this is my opinion and feelings on the subject.)

3. How of the questions that seems to be presented is, how do we randomize the teams? How do you determine who can be a good battle commander? Who should lead a group, and how do you determine their team?
I have no real answer for these questions. As far as team randomization, we could always have "team captains" pick, like how they did in school. This could/should/might help to spread known player skills around, as those known from previous SMM's (or just captain knowledge) would probably be aimed to be picked first. (Probably not the best idea...)
Could have teams assorted by order of arrival. Not everyone will show up at the same time, and a group of people showing up at the same time would become split up, one on each team.
If you are asking for people to provide their concept of their skill levels, either you will invite an egotistic response (I'm really good at the game!), a bashful/blusterous response ("I'm probably about average to below average", ends up being "I'm wrecking everyone and I'M SO SORRY!), to a complete miscalculation/unknowing of one's personal skill level. (I fit into the bashful response. I know I'm good with LRMs... but I do still consider myself an average player.)

Personally, I'd love to see some lance commanders/company commander type roles start to fill out over time. However, with the current size/organization of this event, I don't see this happening. (This is probably more for organized 12 man play, not for SMM.) It might even be interesting for people to form teams ahead of time (loosely) and try to learn to work together with your teammates to improve as a whole...

One of our problems this Monday was how often players seemed to drop out, normally without even saying anything (that I could hear). This also caused some of the team tonnage balance wars and delayed the next drop even more. Don't know why they dropped, or what happened. However, it did seem to slow things down a lot overall from my observation. (I do think that placing a player rotation to cycle players from one team to another over time will help solve some of these issues, as then things should eventually balance out/shift as far as skills, wins, etc.)

I will mention, this is from my perspective and opinions. Just trying to provide feedback and thoughts into the concept/discussion.

SilentScreamer, on 01 July 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

Cappellan Confederation modification of UR-R60. It does not have its own designation but is mentioned in technical readout 3050 as the precurser to their UR-R63. It is listed on Sarna.net as "machine gun variant".
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/UrbanMech

And now I know. I did not realize that there was an Urbanmech with that weapon configuration. The urbanmech really should try to find a place within this game... Even as a free one mech starter mech. Could have 2 energy hardpoints, 2 ballistic hardpoints, and 2 missile hardpoints, be a one of a kind mech, and could be mastered by itself/can't be skill leveled...
Would be nice if CW dealt with Stock mechs only, with real money mechs (I mean, you paid for them) being in your mechbays, and everyone starts with an Urbanmech, using Loyalty points to upgrade mechs from there... (And now I'm way off topic...)

[General Taskeen]

Tesunie, on 01 July 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

Would be nice if CW dealt with Stock mechs only, with real money mechs (I mean, you paid for them) being in your mechbays, and everyone starts with an Urbanmech, using Loyalty points to upgrade mechs from there... (And now I'm way off topic...)

That would be the dream wouldn't it? MPBT3025 was exactly that. Stock only 'Mechs. Pick a faction, take over Planets. It even had an UrbanMech .

Edited by General Taskeen, 01 July 2014 - 06:05 PM.

[Tesunie]

General Taskeen, on 01 July 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

That would be the dream wouldn't it? MPBT3025 was exactly that. Stock only 'Mechs. Pick a faction, take over Planets. It even had an UrbanMech .

And anyone who didn't like "stock mechs" (which would be seperate from your normal mechs, purchased either with MC or Loyalty points), could continue to play public matches with no restrictions, providing everyone with a happy place to play in. CW would be more in depth (with separate mechbays, or just "mech unlocks" and possibly lore themed paint schemes also unlockable by Loyalty points or MC) for lore, and wouldn't hurt the current running game.

[HlynkaCG]

General Taskeen, on 01 July 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

I think someone was running an pseudo-urban on Wednesday, but they ran it once as a joke was all. We were all chatting on TS and we got into a discussion about an UrbanMech and how we'd all like to see it actually added to the game so we could use it on Stock Days lol.

That was me, and yes it was meant it as a joke. No offence was intended, and apologies to anyone who I might have pissed off. The build was based on a datasheet that came in one of the Battletech box sets circa late 90s early 00s that I had on my gaming shelf.

UM-R61 Raven

ETA:
Note: tonnage is off due to the fact that the STD 105 required to make the ground speed correct (or rather the additional heat-sinks required to make the build valid) weighs more than the original engine.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 01 July 2014 - 07:06 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Ah yes, I know of that one. I was able to build the real one in MegaMek (removes the nicknamed "superfluous" 11th heatsink, adds an MG to the LT, and a half ton of ammo). I sure wish there was a real UrbanMech I could bring to Stock days. One day soon...

[Tesunie]

HlynkaCG, on 01 July 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

UM-R61 Raven

I can say, I personally don't have a problem with the overall concept, but I do have an issue with the 5 ton bump up for the "urbie". (I understand your reasons for it, but it would have been more properly done on a Spider instead. Take the Std 100 engine, and if need be endo/FF to make all other crits match up. However, another problem with even that is that your weapon hardpoints may not be in the correct component slots.)

However, that being said and all, should have asked Tygerlily or the group if it would be alright to run such a build. We could have told you no, preventing any frustration (or accusations of cheating) before it could come to pass. I say, lesson learned. Move on and forget it even happened. (I personally chuckle a little at it now anyway, so look back at this with as much humor as you can and move on.)

[paxmortis]

TygerLily, on 28 June 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

Awesome! Don't forget pax, anyone registered with MechForce: Classic can add to our calendar! Put it up there as well if you want!

Hi TigerLilly, if the time is come i will do it

At the moment i building the team for this event.

[Carl Avery]

TygerLily, on 01 July 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

In the past here is what I've suggested: 60 tons per person. Why 60?
[...]
698 / 12 = 59 tons per person.

Another good reason for the 60-ton figure is that 60 tons is exactly the half-way mark between the lightest of the Light class and the heaviest of the Assault class. Assuming we're using the "normal" definitions (20 to 100) of these, anyway ...

[Alaskan Nobody]

Carl Avery, on 02 July 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

Another good reason for the 60-ton figure is that 60 tons is exactly the half-way mark between the lightest of the Light class and the heaviest of the Assault class. Assuming we're using the "normal" definitions (20 to 100) of these, anyway ...

Which begs the fascinating question...

Why isn't the 60 tons a "Medium"?

[HlynkaCG]

Shar Wolf, on 02 July 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Which begs the fascinating question...

Why isn't the 60 tons a "Medium"?

Because there are 4 classifications, two that are above the mid point and two that are below. As such 60 tonnes ends up marking the border line between the "Medium" and the "Heavy" classifications.

[Alaskan Nobody]

HlynkaCG, on 02 July 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Because there are 4 classifications, two that are above the mid point and two that are below. As such 60 tonnes ends up marking the border line between the "Medium" and the "Heavy" classifications.

I know - but it is still a fun "odd" fact.

[IraqiWalker]

Shar Wolf, on 02 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

I know - but it is still a fun "odd" fact.

Also, don't forget, this is done from 20-100. However, there are 15 tonners as well. Which pushes the line down to 55 as the mid-way point.

[Tesunie]

IraqiWalker, on 02 July 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

Also, don't forget, this is done from 20-100. However, there are 15 tonners as well. Which pushes the line down to 55 as the mid-way point.

There are even lighter "mechs", but then you start to fall into the "protomech" (may have incorrect term) and "body armor", such as Toad/Elemental battle armor. (Or if anyone recalls the Sloth.)

[IraqiWalker]

Tesunie, on 02 July 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

There are even lighter "mechs", but then you start to fall into the "protomech" (may have incorrect term) and "body armor", such as Toad/Elemental battle armor. (Or if anyone recalls the Sloth.)

Proto mechs come later in the timeline. The biggest one was 10 tons I think.

However, as far as actual mechs go. I think 15 still counts as a standard "mech" Proto mechs, power armor, and elemental suits are below 15 tons.