22 replies to this topic

[Verrue]

Hi fellows mechwarriors,



Witch module are great for the dragon class mech ? What module do you use to improve the output of that mech ?


Hill climb seem a natural as having no JJ , greater hill climb can be a life saver or a good opportunity to ambush.


Sensor range is great too.

Edited by Verrue, 26 April 2014 - 06:31 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Well, what role are you playing.

you see, modules are designed to help specific roles, not mechs.

For instance, if you plan on being a snipe then Advanced Zoom + Target Info Gathering is what you want.

If you are an LRM boat you want Advanced Target Decay and Advanced Sensor Range.

If you are a brawler then Sesmic Sensor + Target Info Gathering is what you want.

If you are a flanker/scout then Seismic Sensor + Advanced Sensor Range +Target Info Gathering is what you want. Hill climb is also useful, but only really pays off in 2 or 3 maps (Canyon Network, Caustic Valley, Alpine, HPG), anywhere else, it's not as useful.

Also, don't under-estimate the usefulness of consumables, an arty strike that is called directly behind an enemy mech will ruin their day since they won't know it's there until the shells rain on them.

Cool shot helps you sustain fire if you have a very hot build.

The Dragon is usually a flanker role so the third set up I mentioned would work best, but how are you playing it? What's your weapon set up, and what role do you like to play?

If you answer those two questions we can give you a perfect answer, or as close to one as we can get.

[Modo44]

I would actually not take seismic on a Dragon. The mech performs best at constant full throttle, so it would remain useless almost all the time. Use that slot for a strike or a UAV depending on how close to the action you like to get. Target info gathering and sensor range is a nice combo for flanking and quick attacks, so that would be my default config. Hill climb is nice, sure, but not nicer than the other options.

[IraqiWalker]

I put the Flanker and scout in a similar block simply because they share most modules. Seismic can work just fine if you plan on checking behind corners before you move. However, I agree that the Dragon is best at full speed.

I can't wait for when we get LB-5X, that gun will be so sweet on the dragon. Soon as we get it, it's standing will improve.

[Wintersdark]

Hill climb is generally worthless - it doesn't allow you to climb steeper slopes, it just allows you to climb very slightly faster. Blah.

Best bet in general is Cool Shot+Artillery Strike, to be honest.

[IraqiWalker]

Wintersdark, on 26 April 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

Hill climb is generally worthless - it doesn't allow you to climb steeper slopes, it just allows you to climb very slightly faster. Blah.

Best bet in general is Cool Shot+Artillery Strike, to be honest.

I would disagree on the cool shot honestly. It's a good module that can be useful depending on your loadout, but honestly TGI is going to be infinitely more useful regardless of weapons. Especially when combined with Adv. Sensor Range.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 26 April 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

IraqiWalker, on 26 April 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

I can't wait for when we get LB-5X, that gun will be so sweet on the dragon. Soon as we get it, it's standing will improve.

However, PGI isn't allowing MixTech (so you wouldn't be able to put a Clan LB 5-X on an IS Dragon ) and is currently restricting available tech to what would be available circa 3050/3051 (while the IS version of the LB 5-X (which, according to Paul Inouye's planned implementation of Clan vs IS LB-X ACs, would not be capable of switching between slug & cluster rounds ) doesn't become available until 3058).

[Wintersdark]

Strum Wealh, on 26 April 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

However, PGI isn't allowing MixTech (so you wouldn't be able to put a Clan LB 5-X on an IS Dragon ) and is currently restricting available tech to what would be available circa 3050/3051 (while the IS version of the LB 5-X (which, according to Paul Inouye's planned implementation of Clan vs IS LB-X ACs, would not be capable of switching between slug & cluster rounds ) doesn't become available until 3058).

And, being unable to switch, will remain (much like the LBX-AC10) a strictly sub-par weapon.

[Wintersdark]

IraqiWalker, on 26 April 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

I would disagree on the cool shot honestly. It's a good module that can be useful depending on your loadout, but honestly TGI is going to be infinitely more useful regardless of weapons. Especially when combined with Adv. Sensor Range.

Adv. Sensor Range is only particularly useful for certain builds and certain maps. TIG is always useful, but is still situational. After all, once you know where a mech is damaged, even if you lose/regain targeting, it's not like damaged sections magically repair themselves.

Coolshot is almost always useful (barring a Gauss build, basically) as VERY few builds are heat neutral. Being able to lean on your fire buttons longer is always helpful, particularly when things get close. Only usable once per match of course, but being able to push another alpha or two is very often the difference between living and dying. This applies even if you're not in a particularly hot build... and in fact can be even better in lower heat builds, as the heatcap cleared by CS allows a lot more firing as a result.

Not that it's strictly better - as I said in my post, it's just a very good default set that works very well for almost any build. It's also very cheap, whereas TIG modules are not. Takes a long time and a lot of play for you to spend more on Cool Shots than TIG's.

So, yeah, TIG's always a good choice. But it's an expensive choice, and one

[IraqiWalker]

Strum Wealh, on 26 April 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

However, PGI isn't allowing MixTech (so you wouldn't be able to put a Clan LB 5-X on an IS Dragon ) and is currently restricting available tech to what would be available circa 3050/3051 (while the IS version of the LB 5-X (which, according to Paul Inouye's planned implementation of Clan vs IS LB-X ACs, would not be capable of switching between slug & cluster rounds ) doesn't become available until 3058).

They aren't planning on implementing multiple ammo types for quite a while anyways, but yeah, we're still in 3050 to be specific. It's gonna be a long wait until LB-5X is available to IS mechs.

Wintersdark, on 26 April 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

And, being unable to switch, will remain (much like the LBX-AC10) a strictly sub-par weapon.

The LB family has never been sub-par. Yeah it's not as good as it should be, but I have never been disappointed by the LB-10X. Yeah I can't use Slug shots, but I don't need them, the spread sin't even going to be a factor until firing at long range, even in medium range you're safe on hitting the part you aim for with most of your rounds. You also get the bonus of absolutely wrecking whatever exposed part you hit. Especially considering each pellet has a decent chance of critting.

Wintersdark, on 26 April 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

Module analysis

TIG is best used for brawlers (to immediately know where to spend your opening salvo), snipers, and scouts/flankers(to get weapon loadouts and of course weak spots to crack)


This is why I'm waiting for OP to let us know what kind of play style he's using.

[kesuga7]

Improved gyros and advanced zoom if you have ballistics besides ac 20 and lb 10x

[Wintersdark]

kesuga7, on 26 April 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

Improved gyros and advanced zoom if you have ballistics besides ac 20 and lb 10x

Do you find Improved Gyros actually make a noticable difference when under fire? I haven't used them, and assumed that they - like most modules - would offer such a tiny improvement as to be useless (See: Hill Climb Module).

[Wintersdark]

IraqiWalker, on 26 April 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

The LB family has never been sub-par. Yeah it's not as good as it should be, but I have never been disappointed by the LB-10X. Yeah I can't use Slug shots, but I don't need them, the spread sin't even going to be a factor until firing at long range, even in medium range you're safe on hitting the part you aim for with most of your rounds. You also get the bonus of absolutely wrecking whatever exposed part you hit. Especially considering each pellet has a decent chance of critting.

Response (off topic, so in spoiler tags):

Spoiler

I'm not sure what you're calling medium and long range, but really at anything beyond 200m the LB-X is downright terrible.

The LB-X is strictly inferior to a regular AC10 (and even an AC5) in almost every circumstance. The only time it's equal or potentially better is at extremely close ranges - 120m or less vs. large assaults, or even closer vs. smaller mechs - AND when they have already exposed internals.

The AC10 is better at destroying internal components. The LB-X crits more often, but spreads it's crit damage across every component within that section in little 1 damage nibbles. The regular AC10 will destroy a component with every crit, thus 1-3 components destroyed depending on the number of crits scored.

The spread on the LBX, even after the recent tightening, is still extreme.

See:

20 shots at 350m to kill a stock cicada. Note that even at this range, many pellets simply miss due to the massive spread.

Full video:

That Atlas? The STOCK atlas? At 250m? It eats some 200+ CT aimed damage without even having it's CT exposed.


Sure, you can do just fine with LB-X's. But your performance with them doesn't make them good weapons. They do still put 10 damage downrange per triggerpull, but they waste the majority of that damage. You'd do better swapping LB-X's with regular AC-5's even, just to be doing 5 points of useful damage per triggerpull.

People think the LB-X is great, because they can get big damage numbers from it, but the reality is that you get big damage numbers because it takes so damn long to kill anyone with one.

The LB-X is the second worst ballistic in the game, ahead only of Machine Guns (which are also usable, but only in extremely limited circumstances), but unlike machine guns the LB-X is incredibly large and heavy.

I'm not saying not to use it - it's still absolutely capable of killing things, and it IS tons of fun to use - but don't kid yourself into thinking it's a good weapon relative to other options. It's not.

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TIG is best used for brawlers (to immediately know where to spend your opening salvo), snipers, and scouts/flankers(to get weapon loadouts and of course weak spots to crack)

Not immediately, just a portion of a second faster. Still useful, though.

[IraqiWalker]

Wintersdark, on 26 April 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

LBX bit

400 meters is the edge of medium range beyond that it's long range.

at under 200 meters it's still a tight group, however, I think there is a mistake with the your math on the crits vs. AC10 effectiveness.

My numbers with LB-10X have always been low, because of how I use it, it's extremely lethal, but you need to know how to use it, and to be honest, those videos didn't really prove anything we didn't know. I mentioned already that it's gonna be a problem when firing at longer ranges. We know that, and I'm not saying it's a better sniper weapon. Just that in a brawl I'll pick the LB-10X over the AC10 every day of the week.

Wintersdark, on 26 April 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

Not immediately, just a portion of a second faster. Still useful, though.

Woops, I thought I typed "almost immediately".

[Samophlange]

Advanced Sensor Range. It will tell you where NOT to be.

Also, Advanced Targeting to save time figuring out where to hit before running away.

Hit and run, man...hit and run. That big ol' bazooka chest is still a target. Hit box fixes or no.

[kesuga7]

Wintersdark, on 26 April 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Do you find Improved Gyros actually make a noticable difference when under fire? I haven't used them, and assumed that they - like most modules - would offer such a tiny improvement as to be useless (See: Hill Climb Module).

i find it helpfull for easier return fire

however Improved gyros doesn't say anything of how much it redues the screenshake

but Hill climb at least states 10%

i would do

Improved Gyros, Advanced Target Info gather , 360 target retention maybe on dragon

[Wintersdark]

IraqiWalker, on 26 April 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

400 meters is the edge of medium range beyond that it's long range.

Fair enough. I was asking to make sure we were on the same page, as the LB-X itself has a fairly long optimal range rating.

Quote

at under 200 meters it's still a tight group, however, I think there is a mistake with the your math on the crits vs. AC10 effectiveness.

At 200m, the group is larger than a commando. Commandos aren't particularly large, but that spread ensures that at 200m you're still hitting at least every torso section on an Atlas (and likely missing with some pellets).

re crits, AC10: It's very simple. Internal components have 10 health(AC20 notwithstanding), AC10 crits do 10 damage. Each bullet can do 0 to 3 crits, so for the AC10 if it crits at all it's going to outright destroy 1-3 items. The LB-X, on the other hand, is firing 10 pellets for 1 damage each. Each pellet can do 0-3 crits, for the same total damage potential. The percentage chances per pellet are a fair bit higher, so you're more likely to score crits, but each crit is still only doing 1 damage - they are all spread randomly throughout components within the section the pellets hit. As only a third of pellets are likely to hit your target component (200m) lets allow 4 pellets. 0-12 crits, randomly distributed. You may destroy an internal component, but it's unlikely, unless they were already damaged. This does mean the LB-X tends to destroy multiple components simultaneously, but is much less likely to destroy components on the first penetrating hit.

Quote

My numbers with LB-10X have always been low, because of how I use it, it's extremely lethal, but you need to know how to use it, and to be honest, those videos didn't really prove anything we didn't know. I mentioned already that it's gonna be a problem when firing at longer ranges. We know that, and I'm not saying it's a better sniper weapon. Just that in a brawl I'll pick the LB-10X over the AC10 every day of the week.

The AC10 isn't a sniper weapon; it's range and projectile speed is too low for effective use there.

Coupled with TIG, however, the AC10 is a much more precise brawling weapon, and that's important for the very reasons you're pushing TIG use. Same overall damage potential, but it delivers all 10 damage where you need it rather than splattering it everywhere. It's simply objectively better. As I said initially, in the vast majority of circumstances the AC10 is a better weapon, and in a small subset of cases they are equal (that is, extremely short range). Fair enough, as the LB-X is smaller and lighter, but it's a pretty big disparity in favour of the AC10 outside of 200m, and the AC10 is still performing as well or better up close.

[Lyoto Machida]

Interesting choices of modules on the feedback.

Personally, I'd just throw in an arty and airstrike. As far as non-consumables, doesn't really matter on the Dragon so much but I'd never take Hill Climb, Adv Gyro, Seismic, Adv Target Decay or 360.

Maybe TIG if you have a LPL type build. Get in and get out.

[Wintersdark]

kesuga7, on 26 April 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

i find it helpfull for easier return fire

however Improved gyros doesn't say anything of how much it redues the screenshake

I'll have to experiment sometime to see if it's a significant difference or not. In all honesty, right now I just ignore screenshake and fire at the targetting box (screenshake from fire is an entirely visual effect and doesn't impact aim). But if it substantially decreases the shake, that'd still be worthwhile for maintaining situational awareness.

Quote

but Hill climb at least states 10%

Yes, but that 10% is 10% less reduction in speed, which is ultimately just a couple KPH - and you still drop to 0 at 45 degrees.

[IraqiWalker]

Wintersdark, on 26 April 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Great analysis

I see your point.

Also, I really made a mistake with my phrasing, Sniper weapon is incorrect, I couldn't phrase single location damage over a decent range.