624 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 23 May 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Children! Quittit.

But Daaaaaaaaaaaaaad.....




Okay

[Pestolents]

I have an almost stalk RS and i dropped one of the LRM15 for two SRM6's and a ton of AMS and LRM ammo to feed the SRM's and it works fine for the purpose of leveling it. but as for a meta build for iti would have to do more research into the matter.

[Jon Gotham]

YueFei, on 23 May 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

It will matter much more if your team can only have 3 Assault mechs.

When 3/3/3/3 was active briefly the other day, I played a lrm heavy battlemaster. I quickly learned that I had to still be relatively close to the front as I HAD to spread some of the damage off my heavies/mediums. another thing is, you have to nail the enemy assaults doublequick to neutralise the detrimental effect you have on your team's damage tanking ability.
If you are not in the right position to rain lrms down on them like the angry hand of god-your team will fall due to attrition very swiftly.

[Ingga Raokai]

im not that often piloting an atlas, but whenever i charged in and the other atlas just stand still spamming LRM without actually dealing significant damage or contribution, that it became "i regret i did that"

next match if still one team, the other me said "shoot him!/backstab her!" (especially if the DDC not carrying the ECM), and another me said "don't, that atlas is your teammate".

Edited by Ingga Raokai, 25 May 2014 - 06:42 AM.

[Void Angel]

Yeah, the last one is the correct response - even from a purely pragmatic standpoint, it's never worthwhile to murder your team, even if it wasn't against the rules and any moral standard of gaming conduct.

I do sympathize with your frustration, though - in essence an Atlas that's only using its missile launchers is taking up an Assault 'mech matchmaker slot and acting like a catapult. In order to get the most out of the Atlas, given its massive tonnage, poor missile space, and hardpoints, you really need to be a presence on the battlefield, and 35 LRMs just don't cut it - especially from the back of the fight.

Edited by Void Angel, 25 May 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Wrathful-Khan]

So ahhh... just along the lines of mechs that shouldn't be missile boats - I actually saw a commando with 3xLRM5 today!! and a top speed of 69kph. WTH man?

[Void Angel]

People will put builds like that into matches just for the thought that people groan when they see them - they also try out radically different builds to see how they work. The one is reprehensible, but the second case is really OK. Some people can't do math very well, or just want to see how it works in the real world instead of on paper. That 69KPH speed is probably a logical progression from not being able to fit enough ammo on the Trollmando to sustain fire.

Not that I don't think it's a horrible build, mind you. =P

[Alaskan Nobody]

Void Angel, on 26 May 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Not that I don't think it's a horrible build, mind you. =P

Puts me in mind of Tesunies Locust.


Which - by the way, is a good example of a build working far better in practice than on paper.

[xMintaka]

Indiandream, on 26 May 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

So ahhh... just along the lines of mechs that shouldn't be missile boats - I actually saw a commando with 3xLRM5 today!! and a top speed of 69kph. WTH man?

Nothing wrong with LRM15 Commando's!

Need to try this, looks awesome.


Saw an LRM35 DDC today. With no backup weapons (not even a Tag). This thread isn't anywhere near as visible as it needs to be.

Edited by Lunatech, 29 May 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[Void Angel]

/sigh

[TVMA Doc]

Zeede, on 27 April 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

It's not the number of tubes or what kind of launchers, it's the play style. An Atlas should NEVER sit 750m away from the enemy trying to play the long range game.

The Banshee-3S has a 20 tube launcher on the shoulder, and it's great to support with missiles as you close in. But to sit back and let all of your armor go to waste is just screwing your team over.

I have only SRMs on my Atlas builds, but I have a couple of Thunderbolts with LRM launchers. I can say that the one aspect not mentioned is that a small LRM launcher is great at getting people to duck behind cover while you advance. Not all players do this, but quite a few literally panic when they hear the "incoming missile" warning. They'll run for the nearest cover-meaning that they are NOT firing back.

I have enough ammo on an LRM 10 and LRM 15 on the two chasis to literally just spam fire ANY TIME I can get a lock long enough to fire. Even if it misses more often than not the target breaks ranks and runs. It really helps to soften that front line. Boating? Only on specific chases where it makes sense.

An earlier poster made a great point. When/IF 3/3/3/3 arrives, that squishy LRM boat Atlas goes down to the medium-that means that your team's medium will have to kill their assault to compensate. Possible, but not such a reasonable request...

[Void Angel]

I'm still not convinced of a couple of theses that have been bandied about here: That LRM Assaults are ineffective, or that the Rule of Threes will punish anyone who brings an Assault as an LRM boat. As long as LRMs are balanced, you can make effective use of them as an Assault - if you can't, particularly with the backup weapons most boats carry, then the weapons aren't balanced and need to be buffed. It's the same as with a brawler Assault - most or all of your guns are useless at a certain range, but you can adapt your play to compensate.

[Jabilo]

I would suggest that you let people run the builds they enjoy, and hope they have the decency to let you do the same.

People may run any variety of builds for any variety of reasons.

If you stop dedicating your time to criticising other people and trying to tell them how to play the game, you will find your life less stressful.

If you are obsessed that all of your team mates should run meta builds and be focused on victory at all costs, then you have the option to join a unit and engage in competitive play.

To drop in the pug queue and start throwing your weight around as to how others should enjoy their playtime - well it says more about you then them...

[Asmosis]

He's just pointing out that those atlas drivers are significantly hurting their teams.

Running a missile boat is fine, but do it in a catapult or similar that has the speed and maneuverability to reposition and keep up with the fight.

The difference between the atlas missile boat and say a hunchback with 9 flamers is the atlas driver often doesn't realize how bad he is for the team. They are both joke builds, just one person doesn't get the joke.

Being the last mech standing because the other team doesn't regard you as a significant threat is not a complement.

Edited by Asmosis, 29 May 2014 - 10:42 PM.

[Void Angel]

You. are. in. the. guides. forum.

This forum is predicated on the idea that people want to learn how to play (or not play) the game better.

Perhaps if you stopped dedicating your time to criticising others' guides and telling them how to post in the guides forum, you would find your life less stressful. If you are obsessed that no one should ever be warned that a build is inferior, and view other people's time as worthless compared to your desire to "play what you want" - stay out of the forums dedicated toward doing exactly that.

This forum is set aside for advice about builds - what is good, what is bad, how to do things. You have no right to be offended, and absolutely no call to abuse me as lacking "decency" simply for telling people that a bad build is bad. To drop into the guides forum and try to throw your weight around says much about you - and none of it good.

[Abivard]

Remember, to the vast majority of players, even a single LRM 5 launcher on a mech makes it a 'Missile Boat'.

[IraqiWalker]

Jabilo, on 29 May 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

I would suggest that you let people run the builds they enjoy, and hope they have the decency to let you do the same.

People may run any variety of builds for any variety of reasons.

If you stop dedicating your time to criticising other people and trying to tell them how to play the game, you will find your life less stressful.

If you are obsessed that all of your team mates should run meta builds and be focused on victory at all costs, then you have the option to join a unit and engage in competitive play.

To drop in the pug queue and start throwing your weight around as to how others should enjoy their playtime - well it says more about you then them...

He's not asking for meta builds, in fact he's not promoting meta builds. However, everyone with two functional brain cells realizes that LRM-only Atlases are BAD.

They are a hindrance and a handicap for the team they are on. I WISH I can run against teams with Atlas LRM boats when 4x3 comes out. Those will be hands down, the easiest wins for me.

The Atlas is not built to be a good LRM boat, it's actually one of the worst mechs for the role.

You can run LRMs on your atlas, heck every single build I designed for general role atlas mechs has LRMs in them. Just don't make LRMs your only weapon. That's a bad build. I don't care how much damage you dealt. Your team is missing 100 tons of tanking potential because of it.

If you are in an assault LRM boat, you need to be in an effective one, to make up for the lack of that tonnage on the front line. That's why you'd need to be in a BLR-1S, HGN-733, Awesome, or a Stalker. Anything else, and you're hurting your team too much.

Medium LRM boats have small launchers, and carry sub-par amounts of ammo, but they are mobile and can relocate quickly to the perfect spot. Assault LRM boats carry big launchers, and can put a massive amount of missiles in the air (average is 50, but there are troll builds like the LRM 100 Stalker). However, they are slow and can't relocate as quickly, but make up for it with massive stores of ammunition (up to 2000+ missiles). Heavy LRM boats are a middle ground between the two extremes.

I personally don't like meta builds, and don't run them much. However, I expect every single one of my mechs to fulfill a good role, and the only way to really bring out what each mech is good at, is by playing them in the roles they are built for.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Abivard, on 29 May 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

Remember, to the vast majority of players, even a single LRM 5 launcher on a mech makes it a 'Missile Boat'.

Except for all of those who have read Victor's guide - who are of the opinion that anything carrying any LRM5 (or any backup weapons for that matter) is a bad build

And since Victor's is one of (if not the) only guides for heavy LRM use on the forum....

[IraqiWalker]

Shar Wolf, on 29 May 2014 - 11:12 PM, said:

Except for all of those who have read Victor's guide - who are of the opinion that anything carrying any LRM5 (or any backup weapons for that matter) is a bad build

And since Victor's is one of (if not the) only guides for heavy LRM use on the forum....

Looks like we'll need to fix that.

I wouldn't mind writing a comprehensive guide to LRM boats. One that has both min/max, and common sense.

[Alaskan Nobody]

IraqiWalker, on 29 May 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

Looks like we'll need to fix that.

I don't "Boat" them enough to really help out, or I would have written one myself.

I can try contributing to it from the perspective of someone who uses them on a variety of mechs though
(IE the 10-20 I keep on my Atlas for fire assistance when LOS is not possible)