517 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 07 May 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

But they are trained to right, because in war sometimes people get killed and it's a bit silly to have all that expensive artillery sitting around doing nothing while they find another guy to go up and have a look see?

So they can actually do it, and in a combat scenario they may actually even be called upon to call in artillery, so not an "average private".

Or have things changed somewhat?

Every Private knows how to call it in. But there is a chain of command of who does it.

Every MechWarrior is effectively a Sgt.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 May 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[crossflip]

Craig Steele, on 07 May 2014 - 02:45 AM, said:

So I guess what you're saying is that if someone uses it correctly and their opponent doesn't apply any evasion tactics there could be a damage output. That seems pretty consistent with the game play model. Reward execllent execution, penalise poor defensive positioning. That's generally how MW:O runs.

Only a light can consistently dodge artillery strikes placed within 50m. Within that range, it's basically a kill button. It's child's play for another light to just run, leave it there and scoot away. Don't give us the defensive position nonsense either, 'cause tunnels and the HPGM basement are the only real defense against the open sky. The smoke can be placed right next to a mech, and then that mech is doomed for the rest of the game.

Calldowns are a mechanic designed for games with multiple respawns. One of these hits you in MWO, and your match is ruined. This is Mechwarrior, not CoD or Battlefield. Mechs aren't supposed to vanish in an instant unless you present yourself on a silver platter to the entire enemy team.

[Craig Steele]

crossflip, on 07 May 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

Only a light can consistently dodge artillery strikes placed within 50m. Within that range, it's basically a kill button. It's child's play for another light to just run, leave it there and scoot away. Don't give us the defensive position nonsense either, 'cause tunnels and the HPGM basement are the only real defense against the open sky. The smoke can be placed right next to a mech, and then that mech is doomed for the rest of the game.

Calldowns are a mechanic designed for games with multiple respawns. One of these hits you in MWO, and your match is ruined. This is Mechwarrior, not CoD or Battlefield. Mechs aren't supposed to vanish in an instant unless you present yourself on a silver platter to the entire enemy team.

And yet where is the argument against getting cored by a one shot Alpha?

If the FLD one shot oblivion has a place in the game, so to does artillery in its current format.

Nerf em both and improve mech durability, or leave them both alone. Then at least the FLD pop tarters has something to worry about.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 May 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

Then How come as a Boot I was given training on how to properly call in Arty and Strikes??? And I refreshed that training yearly.

But can you call down the strike at your own whim? I think not. Not as long as your commanding officer, be it the Lieutenant, or the Lance Commander is still in command.

How many novels did you read, where some regular mechwarrior calling the strikes?

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2014 - 05:55 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 May 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

Every Private knows how to call it in. But there is a chain of command of who does it.

Every MechWarrior is effectively a Sgt.

The "junior" pilot rank is a bit grey in canon. There are some sources, including novels and short stories that quite clearly articulates "Sgt" ranks as pilots and they are referred to accordingly.

But there are other sources that indicate they are junior officers, "pilot" being the rank below "lieutenant" but above "Sgt", maybe its House specific or something, I'd have to check all the references

[Abivard]

crossflip, on 07 May 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

Only a light can consistently dodge artillery strikes placed within 50m. Within that range, it's basically a kill button. It's child's play for another light to just run, leave it there and scoot away. Don't give us the defensive position nonsense either, 'cause tunnels and the HPGM basement are the only real defense against the open sky. The smoke can be placed right next to a mech, and then that mech is doomed for the rest of the game.

Calldowns are a mechanic designed for games with multiple respawns. One of these hits you in MWO, and your match is ruined. This is Mechwarrior, not CoD or Battlefield. Mechs aren't supposed to vanish in an instant unless you present yourself on a silver platter to the entire enemy team.

We have all kinds of meta mechs that can core your light in a single alpha, and you don't have to serve yourself on a platter for them to do it. So that seems to render your statement totally moot.

BTW, how did this duke'nuke'em light get into the middle of your mob alive?

[El Bandito]

Abivard, on 07 May 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

We have all kinds of meta mechs that can core your light in a single alpha, and you don't have to serve yourself on a platter for them to do it. So that seems to render your statement totally moot. BTW, how did this duke'nuke'em light get into the middle of your mob alive?

Cover+JJs. I'd be more surprised if a Light pilot is incompetent enough to die before planting a strike. Getting out alive is a different story. I often plant a strike with my A1 and jump out alive in city maps.

Besides, the strikes only need LoS--there is no max range so many times there is no need to even get close.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[Screech]

crossflip, on 07 May 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

Only a light can consistently dodge artillery strikes placed within 50m. Within that range, it's basically a kill button.

What game are you playing?

Only a light can consistently avoid artillery strikes?!?!?! What a complete and absolute joke.

So much bad, so much.

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 07 May 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

The "junior" pilot rank is a bit grey in canon. There are some sources, including novels and short stories that quite clearly articulates "Sgt" ranks as pilots and they are referred to accordingly.

But there are other sources that indicate they are junior officers, "pilot" being the rank below "lieutenant" but above "Sgt", maybe its House specific or something, I'd have to check all the references

Warrant Officer

El Bandito, on 07 May 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

But can you call down the strike at your own whim? I think not. Not as long as your commanding officer, be it the Lieutenant, or the Lance Commander is still in command.

How many novels did you read, where some regular mechwarrior calling the strikes?

A Private, Not unless I am last ranking. Now a Sgt. That was a different matter. And every MW is at least Sgt Grade.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 May 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

A Private, Not unless I am last ranking. Now a Sgt. That was a different matter. And every MW is at least Sgt Grade.

I am not sure that is 100% true, Sarna states every mechwarrior that graduated a military academy was Sargent, but not all went to a academy.

Look at the Grey Death organizational chart, around 2 mechwarriors per lance do not have a Sargent rank.

[Mystere]

crossflip, on 07 May 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

Only a light can consistently dodge artillery strikes placed within 50m. Within that range, it's basically a kill button. It's child's play for another light to just run, leave it there and scoot away. Don't give us the defensive position nonsense either, 'cause tunnels and the HPGM basement are the only real defense against the open sky. The smoke can be placed right next to a mech, and then that mech is doomed for the rest of the game. Calldowns are a mechanic designed for games with multiple respawns. One of these hits you in MWO, and your match is ruined. This is Mechwarrior, not CoD or Battlefield. Mechs aren't supposed to vanish in an instant unless you present yourself on a silver platter to the entire enemy team.

And this is why discussions on this and related topics really get nowhere. People love to use exaggerations such as the one I highlighted above.

The module is not a "kill button". The probability of a fresh Mech getting killed by artillery is small.

But I do know that the module can be considered a "weapon of terror". The psychological effects created by being hit by one seem to be rather significant. As proof I present all the anti-artillery threads ever created, all of which have a healthy dose of exaggerations, not to mention crying, on them.

Heck, I once saw an enemy mech running away from battle. He was already legged, dismembered, red all over, and therefore obviously close to death. I could have chased and finished him off with mediums and MGs. But I decided to instead lob artillery as a coup de grâce. Well, he went ballistic and cursed artillery for being OP!

I wonder if he would have reacted differently if I just shot him instead.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Mystere, on 07 May 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

And this is why discussions on this and related topics really get nowhere. People love to use exaggerations such as the one I highlighted above.

The module is not a "kill button". The probability of a fresh Mech getting killed by artillery is small.

But I do know that the module can be considered a "weapon of terror". The psychological effects created by being hit by one seem to be rather significant. As proof I present all the anti-artillery threads ever created, all of which have a healthy dose of exaggerations, not to mention crying, on them.

Heck, I once saw an enemy mech running away from battle. He was already legged, dismembered, red all over, and therefore obviously close to death. I could have chased and finished him off with mediums and MGs. But I decided to instead lob artillery as a coup de grâce. Well, he went ballistic and cursed artillery for being OP!

I wonder if he would have reacted differently if I just shot him instead.

Do you work for the NRA by chance? With how much blame you place on the victims this feels like a gun control thread.

Shots fired.... See what I did there?

Edited by lockwoodx, 07 May 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 07 May 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

I am not sure that is 100% true, Sarna states every mechwarrior that graduated a military academy was Sargent, but not all went to a academy.

Look at the Grey Death organizational chart, around 2 mechwarriors per lance do not have a Sargent rank.

[Mystere]

Abivard, on 07 May 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

We have all kinds of meta mechs that can core your light in a single alpha, and you don't have to serve yourself on a platter for them to do it. So that seems to render your statement totally moot.

BTW, how did this duke'nuke'em light get into the middle of your mob alive?

Well, if they're anywhere like most of the murder balls I encounter, they do not look behind their backs, which makes them the perfect victim of a strike by instigating a squirrel chase as a distraction.

Also. by the looks of it, he does not know what "defensive position" really means.

[Mystere]

lockwoodx, on 07 May 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Do you work for the NRA by chance? With how much blame you place on the victims this feels like a gun control thread.

Shots fired.... See what I did there?

Funny! Funny!

Nope, IRL, I do not like guns. But, I do like things that can cause fires, and the bigger the fire the better.

See what I did there?

Edited by Mystere, 07 May 2014 - 09:02 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 07 May 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Heck, I once saw an enemy mech running away from battle. He was already legged, dismembered, red all over, and therefore obviously close to death. I could have chased and finished him off with mediums and MGs. But I decided to instead lob artillery as a coup de grâce. Well, he went ballistic and cursed artillery for being OP!

I wonder if he would have reacted differently if I just shot him instead.

i doubt it. I see lots of players who blame their shadow for why they die. Apparently somewhere it says player X is not supposed to die or have a bad match.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Mystere, on 07 May 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Funny! Funny!

Nope, IRL, I do not like guns. But, I do like things that can cause fires, and the bigger the fire the better.

See what I did there?

No actually I dont, because arty doesn't set any brush on fire and it's sorely lacking in incendiary shells. Now if you're talking about flaming posters....

[Mystere]

lockwoodx, on 07 May 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

No actually I dont, because arty doesn't set any brush on fire and it's sorely lacking in incendiary shells. Now if you're talking about flaming posters....

You need to read my sig.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Mystere, on 07 May 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

You need to read my sig.

You're a big fan of the Ember?

[Rando Slim]

No Mr. Steele (every time I hit the quote button it doesn't do anything, ^shrugs) that's not what I or others are getting at. The point is that you cant always avoid it. Yea of course if someone puts it in front of me its easy to avoid But if someone puts it in your blind spot when you are fighting or behind you there is no one to call it out for you. The other point I just cant seem to get through is that regardless of its role it is just too strong. This game isn't all about assault mechs, 25 or 30 points per shell would be plenty strong enough to still as you correctly point out, punish them for bad position.

Furthermore, I get it, arty is to prevent deathballing to some extent. Ok fine, but then if I spread out more, Im more vulnerable to getting sniped or lrm focus fired. In a pug match, hell even in 4 mans, were not all running the same speed, pugs cant help each other stay at an optimal spread where they aren't too far apart or too close together. Sometimes the map design doesn't allow it either. You don't like my argument fine, you don't like my idea for how I think it would be cool to implement it a different way fine. But Im not alone, many others in this thread have made plenty of valid arguments why arty needs a nerf. I just wish people could understand that just because it isn't a problem for them doesn't mean it isn't a problem (and yes I understand the inverse is true too so don't bother). The reality is regardless of my mistakes in evasive maneuvering or the opponents skill, arty is a tad too strong for the cost and difficulty of its use to be considered balanced. Would it be less fun of a game if arty were nerfed just a little? No? Ok then.