517 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

If you actually watch the videos of some highly competitive 12-mans you'll see that artillery/airstrikes does not affect the outcome of the game, it pretty much decides it. Whichever side will have better/luckier drops of arty/airstrike will win, most mechs are heavily damaged (30-70%) even before the fighting starts. Most damage in those games comes from strikes, half the kills come from strikes. Question is ... do we want this game to degrade into battle of artillery crews? Or do we want some mech vs mech action after all? Currently its not means for anti-blob, its nothing else than easy extra damage spam for no heat, no tonnage, no tradebacks.

[Craig Steele]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 April 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

If you actually watch the videos of some highly competitive 12-mans you'll see that artillery/airstrikes does not affect the outcome of the game, it pretty much decides it. Whichever side will have better/luckier drops of arty/airstrike will win, most mechs are heavily damaged (30-70%) even before the fighting starts. Most damage in those games comes from strikes, half the kills come from strikes. Question is ... do we want this game to degrade into battle of artillery crews? Or do we want some mech vs mech action after all? Currently its not means for anti-blob, its nothing else than easy extra damage spam for no heat, no tonnage, no tradebacks.

[Nauht]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 April 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

If you actually watch the videos of some highly competitive 12-mans you'll see that artillery/airstrikes does not affect the outcome of the game, it pretty much decides it. Whichever side will have better/luckier drops of arty/airstrike will win, most mechs are heavily damaged (30-70%) even before the fighting starts. Most damage in those games comes from strikes, half the kills come from strikes. Question is ... do we want this game to degrade into battle of artillery crews? Or do we want some mech vs mech action after all? Currently its not means for anti-blob, its nothing else than easy extra damage spam for no heat, no tonnage, no tradebacks.

Linky or I'm claiming stinky.

[General Solo]

I have to disagree, I hardy get hit by arty let alone killed

Saying said Arty is a free shot in no way communicates that some skill is required for best results.
Placing Arty is a fine Art (Pun intended)
If arty is placed well, the enemy wont see the smoke until its too late, how many times I've wasted 40K through bad placement

Arty is also a great counter to blobs of death, campers, Pop Tartars, LRM Boats in cover and static entrenched positions
Also arty allows a single mech warrior to delay a push consisting of multiple opponents single handedly,

In the hands of an elite lance, yes I can see how a rolling arty/Air strike barrage could be disheartening, However the majority of the player base don't use them that way. I think overall they have less impact than LRM's and PPC autocannon meta and is a counter to them.

I say leave air and arty strike alone, and I hope they don't change

[PhoenixFire55]

Nauht, on 28 April 2014 - 01:49 AM, said:

Linky or I'm claiming stinky.

Meh ...
Watch any of the heavy drops between SteelJaguar and BlackSpikes in the EU division (drops 3 and 4 where rules allow strikes).

@Craig Steele
Sure, some. But give me a 12-man team that doesn't use arty/airstrikes and it'll lose to one that does.

[Monkeystador]

Arty unlimited range is an issue. Placing them with high precision over 2000km makes it an easy long range engagement tool.
Nevertheless, i dont think working that angle is a good solver.
Much better would be to increase the time until the strike hits. increasing time to 10 seconds would do alot and make Arty into an area denial weapon. Make it enough time to walk out of the strike but not pass through a strike area with 60kph.
Should be something like 10+-2. Also the time until impact could be randomised a bit.

With that mechanic you can't really use arty anymore for precise strikes. Instead deny area access for a short while. Anything that still mvoes in gets hit hard. For that reason i would NOT reduce damage.

Edited by Monkeystador, 28 April 2014 - 02:50 AM.

[Mr David]

I ran arty and airstrikes yesterday and this evening with consideration to their effectiveness because of this thread. I neglected them since the mediums tournament where I had hoped to just get a score boost. I have to say, they can be terribly effective. Several times, tossing an arty in front of a pushing blob saved my mech to fight longer and add a few kills where we ended up winning a good match. Another time it split up a group of LRMers and my team rushed in to wipe them out. Once I was running a strictly for fun build in a Battlemaster and arty/airstrike I had equipped months ago showed up. I ended the match with over 1000 damage. Over half was from the modules I imagine.

The most effective match with them was when we were down to 4 damaged mechs to the enemies 6 less damaged mechs on Crimson. I let an airstrike go and hit at least 4 mechs that were perfectly lined up behind a building. 3 seconds later 6 'component destroyed' messages pop up. No kills, but the damage was done. The group still managed to kill two more friendly mechs before me in an Ember and a teammate in a Dakka Banshee wiped them all out. I ended up with 6 kills, the teammate had 4. Had it not been for one airstrike, we would have certainly got stomped.

That said, they didn't make a difference in about 2/3 the matches I used them in aside from a modest damage boost. Thats about what I see in pug matches too. Most drops are just a waste of 40,000 cbills and a minor annoyance. You should never get hit with them in lights or mediums. In heavy or assaults, dropping 15% total armor is a pretty big loss though even spread out over the mech. It gets particularly annoying when a premade comes in with poptart assaults each equipped with arty and airstrike. In pug matches, there is no counter to that.

I would love to see shell damage drop to 25-30.

[Hillbillycrow]

Hell, make people choose between bringing a Command Module or some other module in order to use arty.
In other words: to use arty/air you not only have to purchase and slot it, but have to slot another module as well.

Edited by Hillbillycrow, 28 April 2014 - 03:16 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

kesuga7, on 27 April 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

iv noticed too many times
by the time a mech notices the smoke and accelerates foward its usually too late

pretty much free damage against most assault mechs iv seen

even in my 100 kph treb lol

I have cleared Arty in a 53 KpH Atlas. Depends on where your are in relation to the smoke and how fast you react to it. It hurts but it is a weapon that is meant to hurt.

[Screech]

If it is such a bane to the competitive hamlet why worry about it a day before private matches when all ground rules for such weapons can be agreed upon prior to the match? Seems like this alleged imbalance will already be solved a mere 24 hours away.

Arty/Air Strikes in pugs is fine and needs no changes, helps to clear the chaff.from the opposing team.

[Joseph Mallan]

Screech, on 28 April 2014 - 04:43 AM, said:

If it is such a bane to the competitive hamlet why worry about it a day before private matches when all ground rules for such weapons can be agreed upon prior to the match? Seems like this alleged imbalance will already be solved a mere 24 hours away.

Arty/Air Strikes in pugs is fine and needs no changes, helps to clear the chaff.from the opposing team.

Up till here you had a good post. Though the crossed out IS true, it should go without saying. Seriously don't go around saying it, cause some people can't take tough talk.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 April 2014 - 04:47 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

Is it possible to turn arty/airstrike off in privat matches tomorrow?

[Joseph Mallan]

Yes all party's agree not t bring Arty. Thus it is turned off.

[Khobai]

Quote

Arty/Air Strikes in pugs is fine and needs no changes

The problem with Arty is that its outright better than the other modules. Theres no reason not to take it. So whats the point of even having other modules? If Arty is going to use the same module slot as all the other modules then it needs to have a power level equivalent to all the other modules... or it needs to cost 2 module slots.

[Mystere]

Adiuvo, on 27 April 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

We're piloting things that would collapse under their own weight anyways.

Which makes the job of artillery and air strikes even easier.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Had a guy in my group this weekend running a Hunchie with Small Pulse Lasers...was an old carry over from way back in the day, nostalgia drop for him.

Anyway, in addition to the Pulse Lasers, he has a TAG and a pair of Flamers.

Welp, his Hunch was blasted off by a couple well placed Meta shots in the first 30 seconds of engagement on Tourmaline.

Left him with a Flamer and TAG.

He ended up doing 600 damage at the end of the match.

Anyone want to guess how?

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 28 April 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 28 April 2014 - 12:12 AM, said:

Ignorance to the matter is bliss... just imagine the e-sport people critiquing this...

That's actually absolutely fantastic! I don't want MWO to be an eSport!

Edited by Mystere, 28 April 2014 - 05:52 AM.

[3rdworld]

They have been OP since they were buffed. It is pretty common knowledge to anyone with experience using them or having them used against you en masse.

Heck even Jo Mal has called them an easy button. You know something is OP, when he thinks it is OP (He just doesn't have a problem with something being OP).

[Nicholas Carlyle]

3rdworld, on 28 April 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

Heck even Jo Mal has called them an easy button. You know something is OP, when he thinks it is OP (He just doesn't have a problem with something being OP).

So true.

[Mystere]

Kilo 40, on 28 April 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

I have an idea...what about if the command console was what calls arty/air strikes? It would be more logical and would be a way to stop them from being over used.

feel free to rip that idea apart. I haven't thought long on it and arty is fine where it is for me.

I'd rather have TAG be a requirement for artillery and air strikes.

And once again, instead of nerfs, let's have more goodies.