517 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

What I find funny is that Airstrike/Arty are very useful in PUG matches against blobbed enemies, but I can't afford them while grinding c-bills.
In 12mans, where costs are not an issue, people communicate and are smart enough not to blob constantly their effectiveness is much lower.

Edited by Kmieciu, 30 April 2014 - 04:17 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

there should be a limit on strikes, each team can only say, activate 2 artis and 2 air strikes per game, if anyone else packed them, too bad, it can't be activated

i've had games where it was just strikes going on and on and on and on from both teams. seriously.

[Joseph Mallan]

knightsljx, on 30 April 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

there should be a limit on strikes, each team can only say, activate 2 artis and 2 air strikes per game, if anyone else packed them, too bad, it can't be activated

i've had games where it was just strikes going on and on and on and on from both teams. seriously.

Seriously, I am at a loss. We are playing a combat game, when some get faced with combat situations they don't like it. Air strikes could take A LOT longer to deliver, many Combat commands don't have air assets. So what assets the might have would need to land, reload and then fly back to the drop zone.

Arty... well the Home team should have an advantage(and more than 2 tubes) more than the invader, unless it is a planetary Assault. Which we don't have right now.

[Abivard]

QQ

The sweet and salty taste of the tears of the handicappers.

I sense someone was recently the target of several effective strikes.

[Joseph Mallan]

Abivard, on 30 April 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

QQ

The sweet and salty taste of the tears of the handicappers.

I sense someone was recently the target of several effective strikes.

You would be wrong in my case. I have no problem with having negatives to balance a positive. Arty can be a powerful weapon (When used correctly), It has a moderate cost to use but no drawbacks I have heard. So Let it have some. So long as the strength isn't one of them.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Abivard, on 30 April 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

QQ

The sweet and salty taste of the tears of the handicappers.

I sense someone was recently the target of several effective strikes.

I've never died to Strikes, and rarely get hit by them. But I see them used very effectively every time I pre-made.

[RussianWolf]

Kilo 40, on 28 April 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

I have an idea...what about if the command console was what calls arty/air strikes? It would be more logical and would be a way to stop them from being over used.

feel free to rip that idea apart. I haven't thought long on it and arty is fine where it is for me.

Or if it were linked to TAG. You have to TAG the location you want it deployed for the 4-5 seconds.

Not somehow throw a smoke canister 2000m, through a keyhole, in 1 second.

[Abivard]

Those smoke canisters need to go, they ruin the immersion!

What fool warns the enemy they are dropping a strike on top of them in the middle of a battle?

Neither the arty nor the aerofighters can see the smoke, they are targeting map coordinates, So the smokes sole purpose is to warn the target they have been targeted.

Why can't arty and airstrike be used at the same time? They should be able to be used together and be on separate timers as well.

[Unrelenting Farce]

Solution: Command Console. Now it takes weight, space, and gives that poor thing a use.

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 April 2014 - 04:06 AM, said:

Mech Warriors are usually Sgt grade personnel in house militaries. If you read any of the house books...

Dang it! I knew I should have said "ordinary grunts" instead.

[Jonathan Paine]

Artillery and Air strike weigh nothing, take up no critical slots, requires a pathetic amount of skill to use (heck, even LRMs require more skill!) and has the potential of one shotting several mechs at a time.

So why shouldn't it require something like a combination of a command console and TAG to use successfully? Why shouldn't the damage be reduced to 20 points per shell while firing more shells over time?

What is the problem with there being some negative trade offs to that is currently the simplest way in the game to do lots of damage?

[Mystere]

Jonathan Paine, on 30 April 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Artillery and Air strike weigh nothing, take up no critical slots, requires a pathetic amount of skill to use (heck, even LRMs require more skill!) and has the potential of one shotting several mechs at a time.

A direct hit by an artillery shell on your cockpit should kill ... correction ... obliterate you.

Jonathan Paine, on 30 April 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

So why shouldn't it require something like a combination of a command console and TAG to use successfully? Why shouldn't the damage be reduced to 20 points per shell while firing more shells over time?

That leaves zero probability of being obliterated when your cockpit gets a direct hit. That's no longer ARTILLERY!

Jonathan Paine, on 30 April 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

What is the problem with there being some negative trade offs to that is currently the simplest way in the game to do lots of damage?

There is no problem with having negative trade offs. The problem is that many of the negative "tradeoffs" proposed in many of the anti-artillery QQ threads are designed to render them useless.

Also, people are growing extremely tired of all the never ending calls for nerfs. With regard to artillery in particular, a better solution is to add new and good modules so that the so-called "elite" "top level" "high Elo" "ultra-competitive" types ( ) do not feel they are "forced" ( ) to carry artillery just to be "competitive".

Edited by Mystere, 30 April 2014 - 01:38 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 30 April 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

A direct hit by an artillery shell on your cockpit should kill ... correction ... obliterate you.




That leaves zero probability of being obliterated when your cockpit gets a direct hit. That's no longer ARTILLERY!

Dont forget...a modern tank cannon is considered either a Rifle, the heavy version which does 6 damage against mech armor, or an AC2. What would modern artillery do? Future artillery? I don't imagine 40 damage.

As such, you'd need more volume of shells to get that damage. Not a lowly 10.

Edited by Mcgral18, 30 April 2014 - 01:44 PM.

[Roughneck45]

Kmieciu, on 30 April 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

In 12mans, where costs are not an issue, people communicate and are smart enough not to blob constantly their effectiveness is much lower.

How often do you play 12's?

Arty and Air dominate in 12's, to the point that nearly everyone has both of them. They can win games.

Edited by Roughneck45, 30 April 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 30 April 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

Dont forget...a modern tank cannon is considered either a Rifle, the heavy version which does 6 damage against mech armor, or an AC2. What would modern artillery do? Future artillery? I don't imagine 40 damage.

As such, you'd need more volume of shells to get that damage. Not a lowly 10.

I'm assuming you've already seen it, but just in case you haven't, watch the video I posted here. That's what artillery and air strikes did in 1973. Fast forward to 3050 and I am assuming armored fighting vehicles are not the only ones that have improved, lore or otherwise.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 30 April 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

I'm assuming you've already seen it, but just in case you haven't, watch the video I posted here. That's what artillery and air strikes did in 1973. Fast forward to 3050 and I am assuming armored fighting vehicles are not the only ones that have improved, lore or otherwise.

And ACs are more advanced as well. Did you know the Pontiac 100 AC20 fires 100 100mm rounds at the target to deal 20 damage? PGI goofed hard with their AC60.

More shells to deal 400 damage, that's fair.

[Sephlock]

No, don't take away the only thing that makes the Locust playable aside from bad pug enemies.

[Kjudoon]

1. Require the command console to fire Arty.
2. Require TAG to target it.
3. Double or triple the cost.

[Firelizard]

Kjudoon, on 30 April 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

1. Require the command console to fire Arty.
2. Require TAG to target it.
3. Double or triple the cost.

If we're going to need CommCon and TAG, then they should give us the ability to 'walk' fire onto the target with sensing shots, and for the damage output to be the 'smite button' that artillery should be when we call 'fire for effect'.

[Jonathan Paine]

To those who argue that firing more shells for less damage per shell would ruin the artillery feeling - perhaps it is time for you to read up on the role of the forward observer as well as the protocols for ordering artillery strikes? While I sure my brother ( who served with an artillery unit could tell you how it works) as a lowly infantry grunt I can only point you towards the relevant wikipedia pages:
http://en.wikipedia....orward_observer
http://en.wikipedia....Fire_discipline

The kind of strikes you would get from a panic call with a rapid response is this:
"The last-ditch mission is "immediate suppression": Every gun in any concerned battery immediately fires whatever round and fuse is loaded, possibly from someone else's, or more than one callsign's mission. The FO may end up getting parachute flares, white phosphorus illumination, DPICM, and VT-HE rounds on the target in the same shot."

tl;dr - Artillery strikes (and conversly, air strikes) should require a dedicated spotter with the relevant equipment as well as confirmation from the chain of command.