191 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I like doing both. When I'm interested in a more balanced personal MW experience I solo. When I just want to goof around with friends I drop with clanners.

The only issue is if I'm in a situation where my lance is taking the game more seriously than I am which. It makes me look poor for not being a "team player" and it makes them look like jerks for putting wins above fun. Thankfully it's not something that comes up often but I can see this as being a primary reason so many people PUG.

Edited by lockwoodx, 29 April 2014 - 11:00 AM.

[Abisha]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 April 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

PGI won't care. I used to drop that kind of money every month for around 6 months. They went and did all the things I didn't want to see anyway.

they care, because 84% of the player base is likely the same as me.
so one guy no big deal, lot of people like me big deal.

Edited by Abisha, 29 April 2014 - 11:02 AM.

[irony1999]

Because its yet another layer of things between me and blowing crap up with my mech for 10-15 minutes?

[Felbombling]

I'm all for playing in groups, but sometimes things can go wrong and you end up playing 1/2 the potential games you could have, had you just dropped solo for an hour. Case in point... say I form a group of four players, let's call them StaggerCheck, Mr. White, Mr. Pink and Mr. Orange... things tend to go like this after the first match...

Mr. White: That was close match. I think I'm going to put LRMs on my Mech instead of these SRMs. Give me two mins in the Mech Lab.

Mr. Orange: It's been five minutes, Mr. White. You done yet?

Mr. White: Yeah, almost done. I thought this would work, but I’m having trouble finding another ton for more ammo.

Mr. Pink: I’m ready to drop whenever.

Mr. Orange: Mr. White…… Mr. White…..

Mr. White: One sec, almost done!

Mr. Orange: Paging Mr. White.

Mr. White: Done! Ready to drop.

Mr. Orange: Great, I’m ready too.

StaggerCheck: Ready up, Mr. Pink. Mr. Pink? Where the hell is Mr. Pink? We’ve been waiting for five minutes.

Mr. White: Can we drop without him? We’re wasting time here.

Mr. Pink: Sorry! My cat got hit by a hotdog cart. Fluffy looks like she’ll be ok, though. Ready to drop!

[Match ends in a loss]

Mr. Orange: Well, that sucked. We got rolled pretty badly there.

Mr. Pink: Yeah. Brb… Fluffy is walking in circles for some strange reason.

Mr. White: Yeah, that game sucked. I didn’t get any good locks with my LRMs… too much ECM, I guess. I’m going to refit my SRMs… give me two minutes in the Mech Lab… brb

Edited by StaggerCheck, 29 April 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Votanin FleshRender]

I've said before, but it bears repeating...

the problem, as I see it, wasn't premades or groups. Hard to swallow that premades were the problem, since your team is just as likely to have one as well (although having a premade on my team never seemed to help very much). The problem was throwing new players in with veteran players. Stupid. Disastrous. I wish like hell there was a way to quantify how much potential business PGI drove away with that decision. Gotta be a special brand of masochist to keep playing after the meat grinder that is a new player in MWO.

[Joseph Mallan]

Abisha, on 29 April 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

they care, because 84% of the player base is likely the same as me.
so one guy no big deal, lot of people like me big deal.

They didn't care when the player base was mostly dropping In groups why should they care more now? Also YOU are the whole 84%. you are one customer.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 April 2014 - 11:06 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

Veranova, on 29 April 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Anyway, I'm genuinely interested to hear the actual reasoning. Because I haven't seen it at-all.
Just instinctive resistance to joining groups of players.

I play in groups occasionally. In fact, I've been playing more frequently in groups because my friends have been on more frequently.

However, when I play solo, I do not want to play WITH or AGAINST groups. I only want to play against other solo players.

Period.

[Zaggeron]

First, I think the OP meant Unit not Team. Semantics perhaps, but a big difference nonetheless. As someone pointed out earlier, every time I play I play with a team. Now on why I don't want to join a unit, here are my main reasons.

1. I don't know anyone else who plays MWO and I certainly don't know any body in any units.

2. It would take a long time and significant effort to do the research needed to figure out which unit is a good fit for me. While many would have no problems interviewing me, how many would allow me to interview a dozen or so random members so I could gauge whether I would be a good fit?

3. Given the current grind for C-bills, anything that reduces the number of drops/hour is a no-starter. Given that I would be the "new guy" with any unit, people may or may not want to drop with me when they have 3 others they know much better that are willing to drop with them. Even If I have no problems always finding 3 partners from the unit to drop with, my guess is they drop less per hour than the PUGs.

4. See quoted post below

Funky Bacon, on 29 April 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Cause we don't have a simple chat for people to get to together and group up before a game? Cause actually forming a team, let alone add people and make friends is such a hassle? Cause such a simple thing as chatting with your team prevents you from even using the UI?

Maybe, just maybe those are part of the reason no one wants to join a team.

I don't want to have to go to some web site, fill in some application, blah, blah blah, just to explore the social aspects of the game. This is backwards from how I have always done it. In the past I've played games with voice chat and have made friends by virtue of cooperating and chatting while in game. Then I have gone on to join their unit -- After I have gotten to know them. Often there is no unit to join, just a growing list of friends you enjoy grouping with on an ad hoc basis.

But MWO makes this sort of experience impossible. What is the size of the average PUGs friend's list in game? How can you even make friends in-game when it's too tough to type, there is no voice chat, and there is not even a "recent player's list"?

I don't complain about premades, they are not evil baby eatin' cretins. In fact, I would like the tools to making Pugging closer to the premade experience without the hassle of going to some fan side and joining an official organized unit. I'd rather form ad hoc pre-mades within the game with whichever of my friends happen to be online. But that won't be likely until we get VOIP in game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zag... It took me a few weeks of reading to know the Law was where I wanted to be.

[Odins Fist]

Some people don't want to be BOTHERED with joining a team full of people with an overdeveloped sense of self worth.
Some people don't want to join a team because they drop maybe once or twice a week, and don't have time to wait around.
Some People don't want to join a team/organization because they simply do not want to do that..

FYI, i'm not one of those people...

There are so many legitimate reason for people not wanting to join a team.. But some players yell at them for this.

I think what the OP needs to understand is this, the people that do NOT want to join an team or organization, want a completely seperate que free from any premade group from any team. They want a PUG only que, and i'm fine with that.

BUT there are some out there that do not want this, and I have to ask the question... WHY..??
What is the motivation for NOT wanting a PUG only que..?? Other then waiting to find a match would take longer.
hmmmmmm.... Any other reason..?? Nothing..?? Nobody..??

[DEMAX51]

1453 R, on 29 April 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Let me tell you!


Pretty much, yep! Either that or adhere to strict attendance requirements – that’s the real deal-breaker for a lot of folks. I can and have gone months at a time without playing MWO – can you think of a single group that’ll put up with a player not being around for longer than three consecutive days? I asked people if they would, once. Notice nobody took me up on it.



No, there really aren’t. There really, really, really aren’t. Name me one group that’d be all “Sure!” when I come back after a month-long GW2 binge and say “You know what? I’ve got an itch to run me some Durgan tonight, who wants to go and do that thing?”



No there isn’t. Every single team out there, EVERY FROGGING ONE, requires a time commitment that I am unwilling/unable to make. There is an hours-per-week requirement, or a drops-per-week, or a “be here for Saturday night gametime or you’re out.” I have other stuff to do, I have friends beyond MWO, and I will be danmed if I let some two-bit goose-stepping power tripper tell me that making my weekly drop schedule is more important.


Yep! And I understand and accept that I’m at a disadvantage when I drop solo against what may very well be a premade lance. I read the articles and guides on silent cooperation with PUGlies, and I do my best to be a valuable member of any given drop even without voice coordination or a prebuilt lance. I’m cool with it. If I’m cool with it, why shouldn’t you be cool with me being cool with it?



First of all, because the notion of dropping in a group alongside some of the people I see in the GD section of the forums makes me physically ill. Second of all, because the people I’d like to drop with – Koniving, Void Angel, Redshift, and others who make the Guides and New Player Help sections of the forums into the excellent and helpful community that GD most emphatically is not – are already busy dropping with their actual buddies, for which I do not even remotely blame them. Third of all, because the only guild I’ve ever found where I’m welcome to play when, where, and as I like doesn’t play MWO.



Optimistic much? There’s plenty of reasons why this statement is not nearly as true as you might like, but that’s a discussion for a different thread.



It’s not instinctive. It’s a highly practiced, well-thought-out, and quite thoroughly tested intense dislike of the gibbering bassholes who populate the forums, long experience with avoiding second-job “Here’s your schedule, here’s your kit, you get one sickday a month, and we’ll tell you what you’re doing Saturday night” competitive guilds/units/whatevers, and the knowledge that the ‘Mechs I love to run are ‘Mechs that would get me thrown out of any half-decent unit no matter how good I am with them.

Oh, also I was/am a total junkie for the Invasion and FedComm Civil War-era novels, wherein House Davion were the Good Guys, Katrina Steiner was the Bad Girl, Ulric Kerensky was a hero and Morgan Kell was a motherfrogging sorcerer until Katrina’s venomous, spiteful self had him poisoned on his flagship halfway to Strana Mechty. I grew up with those books. Victor Steiner-Davion, Kai Allard-Liao, and Phelan Kell were my childhood heroes. The very same characters, in the very same books, that all the old TT diehards claim Ruined BattleTech/MechWarrior FOREVER, and which they spit on with every ounce of spite and derision in their bones whilst exclusively flying the CapCon flag in protest (and never mind that Romano is even worse than Katrina is) and burning effigies of one of my favorite authors. So the lore-based units are just right out, aren’t they?

I play what I want, when I want, and with who I want. These three factors combine to ensure that there is not a single unit in the entirety of the greater MWO community which would take me, so why bother? I’ll just drop solo and take my lumps as I need to. It’s what I’ve done in every other MechWarrior game I’ve ever played.

Sorry dude, but you're wrong on a lot of your points. I know there are groups out there without any such requirements, because I'm in one.

The BlackStar Alliance will never force you to take any build you don't want to take, we have no requirements about playtime, or attendance. We've got guys who've taken months-long breaks from MWO, come back and play for an hour, and then take another months-long break. We don't care.

We've got people who don't even play much MWO anymore but just stop in the TS to chat. We've even got rooms in our TeamSpeak for people to play other games together, like Diablo 3 or War Thunder, among others.

We do have two competitive teams that do have regular practices and mandatory attendance, but if you're not interested in playing competitively then that's fine, you can do whatever you like.

If you're interested in checking us out, visit our website at www.blackstaralliance.com.

Edited by DEMAX51, 29 April 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[Abisha]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 April 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

They didn't care when the player base was mostly dropping In groups why should they care more now? Also YOU are the whole 84%. you are one customer.

and no that's not how business models work mate, one customer is still whole 84%
why do you think it become 84% in the first place?
their is a Hugh difference and that one solo guy and that few % a group represents.

[Vlad Ward]

Votanin FleshRender, on 29 April 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

I've said before, but it bears repeating...

the problem, as I see it, wasn't premades or groups. Hard to swallow that premades were the problem, since your team is just as likely to have one as well (although having a premade on my team never seemed to help very much). The problem was throwing new players in with veteran players. Stupid. Disastrous. I wish like hell there was a way to quantify how much potential business PGI drove away with that decision. Gotta be a special brand of masochist to keep playing after the meat grinder that is a new player in MWO.

I wonder how much this still happens, considering the metric people most often use for determining "skill gap" between teams is how many Mechs each team killed.

12-0, 12-1, and 12-2 are extremely common results in games with no respawns even when the teams are "skill balanced" well. It's because the second your team loses a Mech, it's not 12v12 any more - it's 12v11. Then it's 12v10. Then 12v9. Around that point everything goes to hell and it drops to 12-0 pretty quickly.

[Impavid]

I rarely play in a team anymore even though I'm "technically" a part of a unit. It's just a time issue honestly. It's soooo much quicker to PUG than to coordinate drops with a team. Even just one other person slows the process down.

I prefer to drop, play till I win or die, drop the match, hop in a different mech and que up again. It allows me to squeeze the most matches (and c-bills) possible into my playtime.

I can't stand sitting around for 5 minutes between each drop because people want to fiddle with their layouts. Not that I don't do that myself, but waiting for someone else to fiddle with their layout when you're ready gets boring after a short time.

In summary, c-bill gains drop when you play with a team simply because you can't play matches as quickly as you can solo.

[Zaggeron]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 April 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

Zag... It took me a few weeks of reading to know the Law was where I wanted to be.

I'm not opposed to joining a unit, While I'm a casual player it is only by virtue of a lack of skill not a lack of enthusiasm or commitment . It's just the lack of in-game social aspects means that I can't really get to know anyone until I join a unit ... and that kind of bugs me. So I'm sorta waiting and hoping for in-game VOIP to change that so I can get to know some people, make some friends in game, then I'd have a better idea of what I was getting myself into if one of them asked me to join their unit.

[Votanin FleshRender]

Vlad Ward, on 29 April 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I wonder how much this still happens, considering the metric people most often use for determining "skill gap" between teams is how many Mechs each team killed.

12-0, 12-1, and 12-2 are extremely common results in games with no respawns even when the teams are "skill balanced" well. It's because the second your team loses a Mech, it's not 12v12 any more - it's 12v11. Then it's 12v10. Then 12v9. Around that point everything goes to hell and it drops to 12-0 pretty quickly.

As a recently new player, I can tell you losing 3-12 or worse was *normal*. Maybe I'm just spectacularly awful, though.

[Joseph Mallan]

Abisha, on 29 April 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

and no that's not how business models work mate, one customer is still whole 84%
why do you think it become 84% in the first place?
their is a Hugh difference and that one solo guy and that few % a group represents.

It became 84% because many team got fed up with 4 or 12 Cap. Lack of a good competitive arena to to show off epeen also added to the exodus. Then there is the fact that after 2 years the game is still non existent. Yu can only go through raining s many times without the meat and potatoes of a game.

[DEMAX51]

Zaggeron, on 29 April 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

I'm not opposed to joining a unit, While I'm a casual player it is only by virtue of a lack of skill not a lack of enthusiasm or commitment . It's just the lack of in-game social aspects means that I can't really get to know anyone until I join a unit ... and that kind of bugs me. So I'm sorta waiting and hoping for in-game VOIP to change that so I can get to know some people, make some friends in game, then I'd have a better idea of what I was getting myself into if one of them asked me to join their unit.

A lot of groups will let you play with them as a guest while you're getting to know one-another. And just because you join a group doesn't mean you can't just ditch 'em if they turn out to be a squad of douches.

[Clit Beastwood]

They don't join A Team because these guys seem pretty hard to get along with

[Roosterfish]

I don't want to listen to a faceless voice run their yap or even worse some ill mannered 12 yo who thinks they're the US Grant
of MWO and that they can do no wrong.

I don't want to have to follow rules I've had no voice in making I have to do that enough already everyday.

The more that I see you 'Group Up' people post the more I realize I want nothing to do with people that 'Group Up'. You people are the biggest reason I don't want to join a group.