41 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

First of all I'd like to thank PGI for allowing us to remove cockpit glass, film grain, and depth of view. I literally thought my 2gb 750 ti was defective when I was getting 15FPS on MEDIUM settings in DX9 with AA off in 1400x800 windowed.

Now, I'm running in 1920x1280 fullscreen at HIGH settings in DX11 getting 45-55fps in solid fire fights. Thank you again PGI for unscrewing your game for the players.


Here's my complaint. As everyone discovers the game magically doesn't run like crap anymore, TTK (time to kill) is lower than ever. Maybe you guys think it's fun to play counterstrike in mechs with nothing but AWPs but seriously....... I'd prefer if a match lasted more than 2 minutes tops.

So... here we have the dumbest complaint of all time. Your game runs TOO WELL!!!!!

Seriously... damage values are going to need adjustng again, not tweaking but some moderate toning down. It doesn't feel like Mechwarrior at the moment in my opinion.

2 cents

[Mcgral18]

Mathematically, weapons are doing too much damage if you compare the ratio to TT values. Armor was doubled, but weapons are for the most part are doing 3 recycles in 10 seconds, instead of 1.

Doubled armor brings that to 1.5 times too much damage...not too bad if you think about it.


The real issue is the fact all weapons hit the same location, so boated weapons simply become a single larger version of that weapon. Engine and hitreg limitations prevent progressive convergence from being effective.

[Coralld]

Mcgral18, on 29 April 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Mathematically, weapons are doing too much damage if you compare the ratio to TT values. Armor was doubled, but weapons are for the most part are doing 3 recycles in 10 seconds, instead of 1.

Doubled armor brings that to 1.5 times too much damage...not too bad if you think about it.


The real issue is the fact all weapons hit the same location, so boated weapons simply become a single larger version of that weapon. Engine and hitreg limitations prevent progressive convergence from being effective.

Yes and no. Depends on how you look at it. Are we talking about CBT, in which case you would be correct, or are we talking about Solaris rules, in which case its closer to that.
However, the reason for the TTK being so low is mostly do to FLD weapons, which is tosay the PPC/AC meta. There have been a number of discutions about this and most people agree that one of the best way to fix this problem is to make ACs burst fire weapons (which we will see with the Clan ACs and possibly be a test bed for burst fire for IS ACs) and turn PPCs into weapons that distributes some of its damage to other locations. My favorite is the Lightning Arc mechanic.

[Sephlock]

How do you shut them off? I haven't tried . is there an option, or do you have to fiddle with a config file?

[Coralld]

Sephlock, on 29 April 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

How do you shut them off? I haven't tried . is there an option, or do you have to fiddle with a config file?

I have not had time to play the game today but I would guess you can turn them off or on in the option menu.

[Sharknoms]

Sephlock, on 29 April 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

How do you shut them off? I haven't tried . is there an option, or do you have to fiddle with a config file?

Coralld, on 29 April 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

I have not had time to play the game today but I would guess you can turn them off or on in the option menu.

No there isn't an option in the settings.
According to the latest patch notes you need to adjust those thing via editing the user.cfg file in you MWO folder.

http://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes

On the very bottom of the patch notes you will find the instructions.

[Coralld]

Iguana Iguana, on 29 April 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

No there isn't an option in the settings.
According to the latest patch notes you need to adjust those thing via editing the user.cfg file in you MWO folder.

http://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes

On the very bottom of the patch notes you will find the instructions.

Well that's nice to know. Turning film grain off that's for sure.

I like the glass effects though, gives it a sense of realism for me so I will keep that on.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Coralld, on 29 April 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Well that's nice to know. Turning film grain off that's for sure.

I like the glass effects though, gives it a sense of realism for me so I will keep that on.

Yeah if it floats your boat go for it, and if I had the rig to suppoert ultra settings with buttery smooth features I'd do it. Unfortunately.... just as PGI explained they might need to nerf SRMs now that they register against targets.... since EVERYONE is suddenly experiening greater accuracy due to better game preformance it is exposing some very UGLY truths about how unbalanced the TTK ratio is in MWO. ACs especially.

[Coralld]

lockwoodx, on 29 April 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Yeah if it floats your boat go for it, and if I had the rig to suppoert ultra settings with buttery smooth features I'd do it. Unfortunately.... just as PGI explained they might need to nerf SRMs now that they register against targets.... since EVERYONE is suddenly experiening greater accuracy due to better game preformance it is exposing some very UGLY truths about how unbalanced the TTK ratio is in MWO. ACs especially.

Well as I said, I have not had time to play yet so I don't know how well SRMs are performing. Some people say they are doing well, other say little to no change, but that could be contributed to a number of factors.

I think its clear that the TTK is way to low, and that's mainly due to FLD meta, always has been.

[Craig Steele]

Well titled Thread

[Agent 0 Fortune]

A unique complaint.
I am not going to suggest you video card is defective, I have a comparable (but older) card the Nvidia 570, and my frames have been 40-60fps @1920x1200 with the glass, it may just be a driver optimization in your instance. Additionally the two resolutions you mention do not appear to be monitor standards (1400x800 or 1920x1280) which may be contributing to your issue.

However I will agree on your statement that Time-To-Live will be shorted, due to easier targeting at longer ranges, but only because some specific weapons cough*Ballistic*cough, can take unreasonable advantage of those ranges. These changes will have zero effect on brawlers and LRMs mechs.

[DeadlyNerd]

No, the game doesn't run too well, the servers just aren't under any load, seeing how many players actually succeed in joining.
Every time there's a patch, as in server reset, the lag drops because server load drops. It's lasting longer than usual now because players are failing to join games, thus not creating any server load.

The game still runs like shit considering netcode and no amount of fps will fix that

[Adiuvo]

TTK being too short in pug games is a symptom of a lack of torso twisting. In fights between top units, games last quite awhile.

[Tezcatli]

I'm already seeing that shet with getting hit by PPCs/ACs from across the zone. When all I see is a blur. I was having fun with my brawler build before. But now the dynamic is shifting back the other way. : /

[Appogee]

The game would be simply boring - and less immersive - if you were only able to fire each weapon once every 10 seconds.

Maybe that would make sense for some of the really high calibre high damage weapons - AC20, PPC, Gauss, LRM20. It makes sense that these weapons would be slower to reload and/or charge up.

Adiuvo, on 29 April 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

TTK being too short in pug games is a symptom of a lack of torso twisting. In fights between top units, games last quite awhile.

But that's also because people stay in cover MUCH longer, there's thoughtful use of ECM umbrellas, and every smart drop commander instructs their team to "stay alive".

Edited by Appogee, 29 April 2014 - 10:45 PM.

[Curccu]

Sephlock, on 29 April 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

How do you shut them off? I haven't tried . is there an option, or do you have to fiddle with a config file?

Someday.... PGI isn't really good at making toggles

[SweetJackal]

Curccu, on 29 April 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

Someday.... PGI isn't really good at making toggles

PGI isn't good at GUI in general. Their current designer has a Checkbox Fetish and the options page has barely been touched. They put back in DX11 but that was in the CB anyways. (I think it was when they changed the models from the original, sexy high quality and almost cell shaded style of the Closed Beta Hunchback to the ones that will "show progressive battledamge as you hit them" meaning open source 2D bullet hole textures getting placed where you hit them.)

Hell, we are still waiting on the FoV slider!

[Curccu]

SuckyJack, on 29 April 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

PGI isn't good at GUI in general. Their current designer has a Checkbox Fetish and the options page has barely been touched. They put back in DX11 but that was in the CB anyways. (I think it was when they changed the models from the original, sexy high quality and almost cell shaded style of the Closed Beta Hunchback to the ones that will "show progressive battledamge as you hit them" meaning open source 2D bullet hole textures getting placed where you hit them.)

Hell, we are still waiting on the FoV slider!

or Gamma slider that actually works...

[Kmieciu]

Appogee, on 29 April 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

The game would be simply boring - and less immersive - if you were only able to fire each weapon once every 10 seconds.

Ever since the friends&family beta everyone knew that pinpoint aiming combined with alpha striking bring TTK down to mere seconds. Something had to be done, so that people would not one-shot each other.

PGI claims they could not slow down or disable weapon convergence because it would make the server-authoritative simulation of weapon fire to complex. Then again Warthunder uses fixed convergence (you can set it yourself from 50 to 8000 meters or even turn it off) and the server can simulate 12+ weapons firing at the same time (Spitfire FTW!) - no problem!

The other solutions were to make the weapons do damage over time. Beam duration for lasers was a brilliant idea: much better than laser projectiles from MW2 or the instagib MW4 lasers. Actually they took that idea from MW3 pulse lasers.

But the problem remained for the other instant-damage weapons: ballistics&PPCs. Paul chose to stick to the dumb rule that AC20 does 20 damage per shot. If I were to balance weapons I would divide the damage - for example 5 damage per shot with 2.5 seconds cooldown.

They told us that rapid-burst fire might be too taxing for the servers. But we know that they would handle the 4xAC2 Jaggers just fine. Back in the day you could use a macro to fire 8 rounds per second, and they all registered damage on the target. Both HSR and hit detection worked for them. Besides - the servers could handle Splatcats that fired 36 projectiles every salvo.

Long story short: Autocannons should be rapid fire, with low damage per round and PPCs should splash damage, like in MW2.

And instead of ghost heat system, I would introduce a hard-coded delay to group fire. Something around 0.1 - 0.25 seconds. You could fire 3xPPC, but it would act as a short burst, rather than a single projectile, therefore it would be possible to spread damage while torso twisting. Of course, you could buff the Awesome by a chassis-specific bonus: no fire delay for PPCs :-)

And since I'm at it, heatsinks should not increase the heat capacity :-)

[SirLANsalot]

Actually the dumbest complaint is this.


"I kill mechs too fast"

Its the same issue, and I do agree with it, I kill mechs far too fast. I want to be battling it out with my opponent, not ripping though his armor and internals in 5 sec flat. I want it to take me 10-20 seconds it JUST TAKE THE ARMOR OFF, and another 15 to just down the insides. Right now the only mech that somewhat reflects that is the Atlas, and thats if you completely frontload the CT armor.

Case in point, we need armor doubled again, and internals tripled. Internal HP needs to be higher then the armor outside of it to really put a dent in TTK. Ammo based weapons should stay with the ammo they have now (maybe SRM/LRMs might need an ammo buff) but AC's need to stay as is, since its too easy to "fill" up the need of the weapons ammo. 3-5 tons (depending on the gun) is all you need with any of the ballistic weapons, if mech durability is drastically increased. Ballistics would need to take on more ammo, which means more tonnage dedicated to the weapon, rather then the "passing fancy" that they are now.