1443 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

Ok... for the Evochron video, you're taking a point in space and moving it down to a planet. That's not as simple as it takes to type the words here, but you basically generate the view on the fly using procedurally generated terrain, multiple LOD graphics (same graphic at different resolutions), etc. It's pretty straightforward, and is done in several games, including Kerbal Space Program, and Elite: Dangerous (I think; haven't tested this out yet).

In Star Citizen, that point in space is essentially a whole zone that transitions down to the planet. That ship zone gets information from the space zone (for lack of a better term) so that the pilot can see what is going on outside. Everything in that ship zone is influenced by what goes on outside of it, such as lighting. Basically data is transmitted between 2 instances constantly, so although they are separate they both have information on what is happening in the other.

That is the revolutionary part. In theory if you're flying down next to another ship, you should be able to look in the windows and see the pilot over there, or even possibly people moving around inside the ship. I'm not sure how far they are going to take it, but currently you can see into other ships so they may go all the way. The downside to that is there is a TON of communication that has to happen to make that work, but... we will see how well it works.

And the game play element of that needs to be worked out as well. Going from orbit to the surface is a time intensive task. Kerbal Space Program can give you a good feel for the time it takes. You start approaching a planet at over 2000m/s, and even on a straight path to the surface it takes many minutes. Not to mention what do you do if where you you are trying to land is on the other side of the planet? At orbital speeds, it takes 90 minutes or so to orbit the earth. They may shortcut that with some sort of supercruise, but... still lots of things to figure out.

[Lily from animove]

Heffay, on 18 December 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

Ok... for the Evochron video, you're taking a point in space and moving it down to a planet. That's not as simple as it takes to type the words here, but you basically generate the view on the fly using procedurally generated terrain, multiple LOD graphics (same graphic at different resolutions), etc. It's pretty straightforward, and is done in several games, including Kerbal Space Program, and Elite: Dangerous (I think; haven't tested this out yet).

In Star Citizen, that point in space is essentially a whole zone that transitions down to the planet. That ship zone gets information from the space zone (for lack of a better term) so that the pilot can see what is going on outside. Everything in that ship zone is influenced by what goes on outside of it, such as lighting. Basically data is transmitted between 2 instances constantly, so although they are separate they both have information on what is happening in the other.

That is the revolutionary part. In theory if you're flying down next to another ship, you should be able to look in the windows and see the pilot over there, or even possibly people moving around inside the ship. I'm not sure how far they are going to take it, but currently you can see into other ships so they may go all the way. The downside to that is there is a TON of communication that has to happen to make that work, but... we will see how well it works.

Well I don't think it's hat revolutionary, It's not like this is some super new techniqe involved, it's just some very intense data exchange needed. But at this point. I doubt instances could hod the load of like 30 or 40 ships at a location, that may explode all the clables.

More important question is, why would the ship have to be an own zone in another zone? That makes not much sense, when the ship and every player is an own entity in the same are. Why would one desing the ship as an own instance, what would be the benefit of this? People walking around and such would all also work.

[Heffay]

Lily from animove, on 18 December 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Well I don't think it's hat revolutionary, It's not like this is some super new techniqe involved, it's just some very intense data exchange needed. But at this point. I doubt instances could hod the load of like 30 or 40 ships at a location, that may explode all the clables. More important question is, why would the ship have to be an own zone in another zone? That makes not much sense, when the ship and every player is an own entity in the same are. Why would one desing the ship as an own instance, what would be the benefit of this? People walking around and such would all also work.

If you've ever tried to stick 2 objects together that can move independently from each other, you'll understand why it's not simple. Even in MWO terms: Look at what happens when 2 mechs collide. You get a lot of stuttering as they fight physics vs collision boxes. All the videos of mech stacking show a lot of janky behavior. This solves that problem.

I guess you can say it's not revolutionary even though it's never been done before. I suppose that's fair.

[Lily from animove]

Heffay, on 18 December 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

If you've ever tried to stick 2 objects together that can move independently from each other, you'll understand why it's not simple. Even in MWO terms: Look at what happens when 2 mechs collide. You get a lot of stuttering as they fight physics vs collision boxes. All the videos of mech stacking show a lot of janky behavior. This solves that problem.

I guess you can say it's not revolutionary even though it's never been done before. I suppose that's fair.

Well would be interetsing to see how this turns out, but I doubt this is going to be better. Imagien 5 people on a ship in the universe. This would have 2 points of desynchronisation. The 5 people as our mechs on the map just within the ship. And additonally you have the possible desynchronisation of the ship instance with the universe instance.

think about how "Space engineers" works, people can be in the ships and do all that stuff as well, and enter and exit them at any point even with the ships transfering their own athmosphere and gravity sources. I see not the benefit in this yet except just trying to take a different approahc with another possible source of sychnronisation issues.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 December 2015 - 07:55 AM.

[Hexenhammer]

When ever I see Star Citizen I see what MechWarrior could be.

[ShinVector]

Hexenhammer, on 03 January 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

When ever I see Star Citizen I see what MechWarrior could be.

Yes....

But one is being done right..
The other is being done on a tight budget.

[Hexenhammer]

True. And sometimes I think MechWarrior/Battletech gets in its own way. We believe all weapons should be viable, and they should be, but Battletech was played with random hit locations and that made all weapons viable. If players want more weapon balance, IE more weapon types being used then giving up pinpoint accuracy is the first step.

[Mister Blastman]

Heffay, on 18 December 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

If you've ever tried to stick 2 objects together that can move independently from each other, you'll understand why it's not simple. Even in MWO terms: Look at what happens when 2 mechs collide. You get a lot of stuttering as they fight physics vs collision boxes. All the videos of mech stacking show a lot of janky behavior. This solves that problem.

I guess you can say it's not revolutionary even though it's never been done before. I suppose that's fair.

How come Elite Dangerous has zero collision issues anywhere?

MWO has problems with 'mechs jump jetting into the side of a building--warping everywhere sometimes. In Elite, ships can bounce off each other with no problem. They can also bounce of stations, too. You can have 30 ships in an instance and collisions still aren't a problem. You can bounce of planets, cargo containers, AI, asteroids... There aren't problems.

Why?

Because Elite has a true physics modeling engine.

[ShinVector]

Lies... Vaporware... !! Will take 10 years !!

Edited by ShinVector, 05 January 2016 - 06:12 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Mister Blastman, on 04 January 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

How come Elite Dangerous has zero collision issues anywhere?

MWO has problems with 'mechs jump jetting into the side of a building--warping everywhere sometimes. In Elite, ships can bounce off each other with no problem. They can also bounce of stations, too. You can have 30 ships in an instance and collisions still aren't a problem. You can bounce of planets, cargo containers, AI, asteroids... There aren't problems.

Why?

Because Elite has a true physics modeling engine.

it depends on how the locations are coded to be validated with the server and all clients involved.

Heffay, on 18 December 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

If you've ever tried to stick 2 objects together that can move independently from each other, you'll understand why it's not simple. Even in MWO terms: Look at what happens when 2 mechs collide. You get a lot of stuttering as they fight physics vs collision boxes. All the videos of mech stacking show a lot of janky behavior. This solves that problem.

I guess you can say it's not revolutionary even though it's never been done before. I suppose that's fair.

you cannot stick 2 objects tgether that move independend, because they then not stick together anymore.
One object will always be the master of the locations, May this be the server or the client. and the others will have to validate their location with it, it does nto matter if you create a instanc ein an instance and you match 2 instances and then one isnatcne with all people connected to that instance. or just create one giant instance and match the 2 üpeople into that one giant instance. At leats not when this subinstance should transfer its interior happeninsg to the outer instance. As was said with beign able to se ethes epeople move within the ship. if the ship would be an isolated instance so the server only matches instance vs instance, and the instanc eonly vs the containment within it then yes. But the way you described it would require the players to interact with the instance they are in and the both instances to each other, + the instance they are not within each other to the players themselves. Which just adds another possible source of desynchronisation. The desynch always happens between the client and the host. And everyone connected is still either the host or client, depending on where the ship as instance will be hosted.
The warping in MWO happens because of exactly this thing. Your mech location is stored on the Server. and follows the unconfirmed movment that you input as a pilot. there are regular checks if the movements you made still transfered properly to the server. if not ther eis a small warping even without collision. However when you colide with another mech, an immediate check has to be made for both at the Server side. And the server then has to correct both positions. Thats when either stucking or "warping through each other" happens depending on which picture the server has to reply you is "true" from his point of view.

You will have synchronisation points. Now when SC does this they will ahve too. And then they will have this with every ship to every ship and between every person within the ship. And when it should be possible to see form the outside what happens within the ship, it's just another step of synchronisation. Lets see how this turns out and how they really gonna implement it.

[DAYLEET]

It's been four days and ive yet to see a worldwideweb "controversy" so im going to ask here.

How do you guys feel about RSI banning people for comments made on other website/forum than RSI forum?

Edited by DAYLEET, 11 January 2016 - 06:54 PM.

[L Y N X]

if you are going to hate at least do it anonymously... Otherwise, why keep playing a game you hate? I think RSI is just cleaning up the hate.

[Lily from animove]

DAYLEET, on 11 January 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

It's been four days and ive yet to see a worldwideweb "controversy" so im going to ask here.

How do you guys feel about RSI banning people for comments made on other website/forum than RSI forum?

Kinda is nonsense, company wise it won't help beasue these people aren't prevented form spitting their hate. But then they can do what they want because usual terms of service blah blah people signed anyways.
On the other side, Hater should be banned more often, The internet is not supposed to be an area of freedom of stupidity and hate. There are ways to express properly within something we call "human civilization" and "social platforms". So behaving like a little uncontrolled raging kid or antisocial should just be punished more often.

[Heffay]

DAYLEET, on 11 January 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

It's been four days and ive yet to see a worldwideweb "controversy" so im going to ask here.

How do you guys feel about RSI banning people for comments made on other website/forum than RSI forum?

Consequences are a *****, aren't they?

[DAYLEET]

Lily from animove, on 12 January 2016 - 12:45 AM, said:

On the other side, Hater should be banned more often, The internet is not supposed to be an area of freedom of stupidity and hate. There are ways to express properly within something we call "human civilization" and "social platforms". So behaving like a little uncontrolled raging kid or antisocial should just be punished more often.

I think going somewhere else to vent, with possibly other like minded people is a good thing. People need to express themselves and have the right to voice their opinion. Keep being an *** and toxic on RSI forum about Chris highjinx and you should get banned.

Have the intelligence to do it somewhere else and you should be allowed to exist. I think it's creepy to be stalked by grown-ups who spy your every move just because they don't like you.

Heffay, on 12 January 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

Consequences are a *****, aren't they?

Who do you think will learn or suffer from the consequence in this case?

Edited by DAYLEET, 12 January 2016 - 10:24 AM.

[Heffay]

DAYLEET, on 12 January 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

Who do you think will learn or suffer from the consequence in this case?

I don't think Beer4theBeerGod is going to learn a damn thing from the incident. He doesn't seem the type to think things through.

[Gremlich Johns]

DAYLEET, on 11 January 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

It's been four days and ive yet to see a worldwideweb "controversy" so im going to ask here.

How do you guys feel about RSI banning people for comments made on other website/forum than RSI forum?

they've got every right to reasonably keep their forums clear of obvious trolls. Trashing CIG on another forum is cowardly, besides.

[DAYLEET]

Gremlich Johns, on 12 January 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Trashing CIG on another forum is cowardly, besides.

Interesting, care to elaborate how it is "cowardly" to talk about something somewhere? Are people saying nice things on another forum also cowardly because they fear repercussion? Or maybe they are being paid? hard to trust anyone now, good or bad, since an oppressive system has been put in place. Maybe this post of your is a reaction to knowing you can be banned, could be you have once said something negative about RSI because reasons and now you fear. See how this isnt as good as you think it is?

[Sandpit]

lol
what's sad is this thread has become nothing more than a mirror to the former MWO thread on the RSI forums that eventually got shut down and from the looks of it this one is headed in the same direction because people can't stop personally insulting others.

Funny to watch though, that's why I'm subscribed to it and read it but rarely post. It's more entertainment than K Town sometimes.

Speaking of....

[DAYLEET]

Heffay, on 12 January 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

I don't think Beer4theBeerGod is going to learn a damn thing from the incident. He doesn't seem the type to think things through.

I think you are right. And RSI is way too strong right now to need to learn anything. They have already evaded legal issues i think or without a doubt will evade them in the future, im not afraid for them. Im not actually keeping up with what is going on and i don't care about the game. It's just the offsite banning that interest me and i thought this was weird nodoby felt there was strong moral issues and dishonesty in that. I mean, they certainly felt it when it was happening here so why not over there.