918 replies to this topic

[Wispsy]

Cimarb, on 30 May 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

That being said, 228th gave an AMAZING try against HoL in that semi-final. They were ONE mech away... awesome match.

Well yes but it was 2...Phil did not seem to notice I was there in a basically fresh Ember...

Also nobody noticed our full Kurita team! QQ

Edited by Wispsy, 30 May 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

16 out of 24 robots used in the finals are real money only.

Why is this allowed in a supposedly competitive tournament? I mean, I know why, but I want someone to say it.

[Wieland]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

16 out of 24 robots used in the finals are real money only.

Why is this allowed in a supposedly competitive tournament? I mean, I know why, but I want someone to say it.

So people buy them.

[Vassago Rain]

Wieland, on 31 May 2014 - 12:32 AM, said:

So people buy them.

I wonder if the price to compete was more or less than the prize money.

[Thorqemada]

And as last words of mine about this Tournament - the Guys commenting did an exceptional Job and doubled the Quality of the experience!

Thx Guys!

[Zerex]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

I wonder if the price to compete was more or less than the prize money.

well the prize for first and second was a hero mech of ur choosing and 30 days of premium time, so if they all all choose a Hero mech that costs more MC than the one they were running, then they are better off.

What makes me really laugh is that if u went back and did this Tourny in the closed Beta and said that the most used mechs were running mass machine guns and PPC's and were too meta and it was far too much P2W (like ur inferring) not even the trolls would have given ur question a second.

What it really is is that with the weight limits, these mechs fit the right weapons to fit into the Meta playstyle of jump sniping and mid range brawling, the mechs that do this best just so happen to be hero mechs, in a months time if the meta changes there might not be any hero mechs in comp play and a month after that the Pretty babe and Huginn might become the top comp mechs.
So the questions are, was the game not p2w for that month? or are all Hero mechs p2w, its just not their turn in the meta spotlight yet? or, will people always cry abut this kind of stuff just so they can blame someone else instead of them selves for their play on the battlefield?

"I can't afford a Dragon slayer, thats why i have a bad K/D"

i own a DS and won't run it it pugs as a Shadowhawk is a much better jump sniper in pugs. why? the DS draws far too much attention to its self and lacks the speed of the shadowhawk (which is needed to catch back up to them after 3 of them saw and GTFO RTB becase they saw a locust)

[Vassago Rain]

Zerex, on 31 May 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

well the prize for first and second was a hero mech of ur choosing and 30 days of premium time, so if they all all choose a Hero mech that costs more MC than the one they were running, then they are better off.

What makes me really laugh is that if u went back and did this Tourny in the closed Beta and said that the most used mechs were running mass machine guns and PPC's and were too meta and it was far too much P2W (like ur inferring) not even the trolls would have given ur question a second.

What it really is is that with the weight limits, these mechs fit the right weapons to fit into the Meta playstyle of jump sniping and mid range brawling, the mechs that do this best just so happen to be hero mechs, in a months time if the meta changes there might not be any hero mechs in comp play and a month after that the Pretty babe and Huginn might become the top comp mechs.
So the questions are, was the game not p2w for that month? or are all Hero mechs p2w, its just not their turn in the meta spotlight yet? or, will people always cry abut this kind of stuff just so they can blame someone else instead of them selves for their play on the battlefield?

"I can't afford a Dragon slayer, thats why i have a bad K/D"

i own a DS and won't run it it pugs as a Shadowhawk is a much better jump sniper in pugs. why? the DS draws far too much attention to its self and lacks the speed of the shadowhawk (which is needed to catch back up to them after 3 of them saw and GTFO RTB becase they saw a locust)

16 out of 24 robots are only available for real money...

[Zerex]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

16 out of 24 robots used in the finals are real money only.

Why is this allowed in a supposedly competitive tournament? I mean, I know why, but I want someone to say it.

Because it wouldn't make a slight bit of difference to the style or play types used in the tourny.

Ok we ban all Hero mechs from the tourny, what will they use? Highlanders, phracts, shadow hawks and Jenners, so all this would do is roll back the meta mechs to pre JJ tuning. I REALLY don't get at what ur trying to do by not allowing Hero mechs, as it wouldn't change a single thing.

[Zerex]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

16 out of 24 robots are only available for real money...

And??

PGI has to make money some how, they make Hero mechs for real money, some are fun, some are trolly, some are crap and some fit in to the meta for the time, if u start saying u can't use bought mechs in comp play, who will buy them, as CW will come out which one form of comp play, are we saying Hero mechs should be banned from CW?

And if ur idea is to ban Hero's from all comp, how would u go about finding funding for this game after that, because no one will be buying them.

[LalToofan]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

16 out of 24 robots are only available for real money...

Oh Ma Gawd... you can count... twice.

Great argument there Vassago, well done!

[Zerex]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

Why is this allowed in a supposedly competitive tournament? I mean, I know why, but I want someone to say it.

Because they are competitive mechs!!

its been said a lot and many times, if u already know this like u say u do, why ask?? when some one tells u why, like u asked, why repost the same facts? is it in hope it will change the true answer??

EDIT

i played in the Semi's last night, i didn't feel we had to take Hero mechs to bring a great game or to improve our chances of winning, but when u to build a drop deck to a weight limit its best to build it to suit the map, in our second bracket game we brought 3 Yen lo's (our only hero's) if Srm's were working better they would have been Cent A-9's, so if this map had been the final, you might have seen 0 hero mechs in the final. so for the maps last night and with the tonnage allowed, hero's were brought to fill and fit in with the over all team tactic for that map.
And that's what happened too in finals

Edited by Zerex, 31 May 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[Ozric]

What were the numbers like for the live stream? I was unable to attend due to timezones.

[Vassago Rain]

Zerex, on 31 May 2014 - 02:36 AM, said:

Because it wouldn't make a slight bit of difference to the style or play types used in the tourny.

Ok we ban all Hero mechs from the tourny, what will they use? Highlanders, phracts, shadow hawks and Jenners, so all this would do is roll back the meta mechs to pre JJ tuning. I REALLY don't get at what ur trying to do by not allowing Hero mechs, as it wouldn't change a single thing.

Something that's not clearly better and available only for real money.

You know how no one took world of tanks seriously because of gold ammo and premium tanks? And now we have that same thing here, and they are claiming e-sports and how it's real competitive.

Oh, okay.

Heromechs should never have existed to begin with.

[Zerex]

Ozric, on 31 May 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

What were the numbers like for the live stream? I was unable to attend due to timezones.

high 500's for the opening game and building through to high 700's maybe 800 for the final.

[Flashripper]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

16 out of 24 robots used in the finals are real money only.

Why is this allowed in a supposedly competitive tournament? I mean, I know why, but I want someone to say it.

Thats where MWO is also the pioneer of the industry! The FIRST F2P game that allows it! Will others continue this trend? I think no.

[Zerex]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 03:09 AM, said:

Something that's not clearly better and available only for real money.

You know how no one took world of tanks seriously because of gold ammo and premium tanks? And now we have that same thing here, and they are claiming e-sports and how it's real competitive.

Oh, okay.

Heromechs should never have existed to begin with.

P2W is paying to gain an advantage over the opposing player (gold ammo) to almost a guaranteed win

so please in ur opinion can u point out the advantage(s) of taking a MC only bought mech to me. I'll even let u pick which one Hero mech u'll list these advantages on to prove that this mech is clearly P2W.

[Vassago Rain]

Zerex, on 31 May 2014 - 03:16 AM, said:

P2W is paying to gain an advantage over the opposing player (gold ammo) to almost a guaranteed win

so please in ur opinion can u point out the advantage(s) of taking a MC only bought mech to me. I'll even let u pick which one Hero mech u'll list these advantages on to prove that this mech is clearly P2W.

No, it's paying to have an advantage.

And the DS and ember give such a huge advantage, the top tier teams don't have a problem dropping 30 dollars on the 6500 MC package for it.

I think it's real sad that you're trying to defend this. Someone should compile a list of the most used mechs, so we can see how many embers and slayers were actually employed.

[Eglar]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

No, it's paying to have an advantage.

And the DS and ember give such a huge advantage, the top tier teams don't have a problem dropping 30 dollars on the 6500 MC package for it.

I think it's real sad that you're trying to defend this. Someone should compile a list of the most used mechs, so we can see how many embers and slayers were actually employed.

The Dragonslayer is right-sided asymetric with Ballistics/Energy. It leaves the left Arm (not left toroso) for tanking which is usually not fully armored. That's around 30-50 health as a shield-arm.

With the 9S you can Play w/o Armlock and always have "convergence" whereas with the DS you have to trigger Armlock or Wait for Convergence.
On the 9B, you can mount 2x UAC5s/AC20
On both 9B and 9S you can deliver the full payload from a heigher/lower position.
While I agree that the DS currently fits more into the Team-Metagame, it's not intended as P2W and in my opinion does not it significantly promote P2W either. Compare the VTR-DS to an CTF-3D for instance, both are fairly even in the current metagame.

That being said this should be an interesting read.


Whereas I find the following solutions the best one:

Quote

in an ostensibly free to play game, if the best teams feel they need to bring not-free content when they want to win, i think by definition there is a problem. i dont believe it was designed that way, but it was bound to become an issue sooner or later.
The VTR-DS(T) Tournament edition buyable for C-bills with no C-bill boost is the most plausible solution, since PGI will never admit this is a problem by banning paid content from competitions, and players will probably always shirk ban agreements when real prizes are on the lin

Edited by Eglar, 31 May 2014 - 03:36 AM.

[Rubidiy]

Zerex, on 31 May 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

... these mechs fit the right weapons to fit into the Meta playstyle of jump sniping and mid range brawling, the mechs that do this best just so happen to be hero mechs

Sorry, Z, but cann't agree with that.
Dragon Slayer and Ember are P2W. It was obvious on day one of their release. Yes, jump-sniping may be nerfed one day completely, but does not cancel the fact that Ds was P2W for many months. All these weapon tweaks are supposed to make players buy new mechs over and over again. But for now DS and Ember have exceptional fighting capabilities compared to any other mech and this is a definition of P2W.
If you want to know at what stage a free-to-play game is, look at ammount of P2W in it. The fact that 4 best teams used multiple ammounts of DSs and Embers in semifinals and finals of ultimate MWo tournament means a lot...
This game is definitely on the other side of it's hill.

[Zerex]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

No, it's paying to have an advantage.

And the DS and ember give such a huge advantage, the top tier teams don't have a problem dropping 30 dollars on the 6500 MC package for it.

I think it's real sad that you're trying to defend this. Someone should compile a list of the most used mechs, so we can see how many embers and slayers were actually employed.

so u moment to to prove to me (and everyone) by pointing why these mechs are p2w comes along and you say "No" and then sit there and tell me that the top tier teams are ok with this because we're rich.

The top tier teams are top because of player skill, teamwork and practice. Don't make out that these teams are there because we bought our way to the top. Also i believe u can't list why a DS or Ember is "OP" is because u don't know what makes a mech good for its given roll and how that 1 mech has to fit into a large team with a overall game plan or flow style.

Also why should someone else have to go and compile the stats of the most used mechs in the Tourny, why don't you do it and stop depending on other people to do the work for u.

And for the record i think the most used mech in the tourny will be either a Shadowhawk or catphract (the weight limits were too low for it to be the DS i think)