69 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 09 May 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

Who's the one who decided that "what it is" has to be the way it is? Should the Awesome remaining a walking barndoor with a horribad CT hitbox? But hey, that's what the Awesome is, so who cares amiright! Should the Cicada remain as a mostly downgrade to the Jenner? But hey, that's what the Cicada "is," so I guess it's fine. Should SRMs suck...well, that's "what they are," eh? I can extend this logic to any mech/weapon/etc in the game.

Ya'know, having more viable mechs in the game is not a bad thing...

the guys who wrote the TRO back in the 80s!!!

[Deathlike]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

the guys who wrote the TRO back in the 80s!!!

Maybe... they were smokin' something?

[Khobai]

Quote

the guys who wrote the TRO back in the 80s!!!

Except battle value. Mechs that were worse had lower battle value. So it balanced out.

The problem with MWO Is the matchmaker counts a Locust and Jenner as being EQUAL.

[M0rpHeu5]

@Anyone that says that the Locust is good at what it is

You should try one out and then say that again. The locust can do many things but always there is a mech doing it better.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

the guys who wrote the TRO back in the 80s!!!

He was writing a TRO for a turn-based board game that was specifically designed to be imbalanced in every way possible, with certain mechs/weapons/equipment/stuff intentionally created to outclass almost everything before them (as an example, I have a hard time believing the Gauss Rifle's clear superiority in TT was an accident...). And that game also had a numeric point system (which I like to call ButtValue) to explicitly display the superiority of certain options. And, in that game, you could control more than 1 mech at a time.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 09 May 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Except battle value. Mechs that were worse had lower battle value. So it balanced out.

The problem with MWO Is the matchmaker counts a Locust and Jenner as being EQUAL.

I seen so many BV fails in my years that I cannot take it seriously Kho.

M0rpHeu5, on 09 May 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

@Anyone that says that the Locust is good at what it is

You should try one out and then say that again. The locust can do many things but always there is a mech doing it better.

It is a fast Cheap Recon Asset that a House can buy by the dozen. It is a disposable combat asset.

[Khobai]

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I seen so many BV fails in my years that I cannot take it seriously Kho.

BV fails generally only occur when clan tech is involved. Some of the clan medium mechs have BVs as high as IS assaults, and they simply dont perform on the same level as IS assaults.

If you play IS only then BV is fairly accurate. A Locust for example has a BV of 432 while a Jenner has a BV of 875. Based on BV, the Locust is half as good as the Jenner, but retardedly MWO counts them as equals. Which is why MWO needs something like BV, or at the very least it needs to take tonnage matching more seriously.

Edited by Khobai, 09 May 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 09 May 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

He was writing a TRO for a turn-based board game that was specifically designed to be imbalanced in every way possible, with certain mechs/weapons/equipment/stuff intentionally created to outclass almost everything before them (as an example, I have a hard time believing the Gauss Rifle's clear superiority in TT was an accident...). And that game also had a numeric point system (which I like to call ButtValue) to explicitly display the superiority of certain options. And, in that game, you could control more than 1 mech at a time.

Hey He asked a question, I gave him the correct answer. I cannot help it if it leaves a bad taste Fup. The rides in TT were designed to be like Real Combat equipment that a government would purchase... Sometimes by committee and sometimes by Bribery and balckmail. Would any of US design a Charger to fight in unless we were drunk or pulling Shenanigans???

<p>

Khobai, on 09 May 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

BV fails generally only occur when clan tech is involved. Some of the clan medium mechs have BVs as high as IS assaults, and they simply dont perform on the same level as IS assaults. If you play IS only then BV is fairly accurate. A Locust for example has a BV of 432 while a Jenner has a BV of 875. The Locust is half as good as the Jenner but MWO counts them as equals.

Ostscout-7K No weapons and a TAG BV 372/484. Only useful IF you have ARROW4!

Thanatos The BV included ECM... But in the right Scenario that ECM ruined the balance of BV. No I don't accept BV as a good system.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 May 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Shlkt]

RangerGee412, on 09 May 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

How about if you give the locusts some advanced sensor package?

Double sensor range
extremely fast info gathering to see l oadouts
Maybe allow it to target multiple mechs at once
allow its sensors to cut through ecm at a greater range?

Would this help it be the king of scouting? Would this help it out enough to negate its low weight?

That's exactly the kind of role-based information warfare that we probably won't see for another couple of years

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

Hey He asked a question, I gave him the correct answer. I cannot help it if it leaves a bad taste Fup. The rides in TT were designed to be like Real Combat equipment that a government would purchase... Sometimes by committee and sometimes by Bribery and balckmail. Would any of US design a Charger to fight in unless we were drunk or pulling Shenanigans???

The rides in TT weren't designed to be remotely like real combat equipment, at least not for the most part. They were incredibly poorly designed in ways such as using T1 autocannons (except the '20) on any build, not having backup energy weapons, having too little ammo, having no long-range weapons, having too little armor, having too little or too much speed, having too small of a payload, being too heat efficient or not heat efficient enough, etc. etc.

Take for example...that Charger you mentioned. That is not built like something an intelligent military playing-to-win would build. Real militaries would prefer unflawed machines like the Hellstar or your 3 ERPPC + 2 Gauss Stone Rhinos.

[Odins Fist]

FupDup, on 09 May 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

Who's the one who decided that "what it is" has to be the way it is?

The reality of the situtation we are currently in dictates it.

I didn't say I didn't agree with you, BUT what am I or you going to do about it, other then make a suggestion.
Yeah the Awesome is not Awesome, and the Locust is an easy kill, it stinks, but that's the reality.

If they gave the Locust the ability to mount better sensor or module packages, it would still only help out a little bit.

The Locust after all, is the small guy on the field, and should be driven as such. That's the reality.

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 May 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Ostscout-7K No weapons and a TAG BV 372/484. Only useful IF you have ARROW4!

Its a pure recon mech it doesnt need weapons. Its whole job is snapping photographs of enemy mechs in compromising positions.

[FupDup]

Odins Fist, on 09 May 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

The reality of the situtation we are currently in dictates it.

I didn't say I didn't agree with you, BUT what am I or you going to do about it, other then make a suggestion.
Yeah the Awesome is not Awesome, and the Locust is an easy kill, it stinks, but that's the reality.

If they gave the Locust the ability to mount better sensor or module packages, it would still only help out a little bit.

The Locust after all, is the small guy on the field, and should be driven as such. That's the reality.

The current situation can be changed, though, that's the thing. Well, at least it has the "potential" to be changed, provided that piggy actually wanted to. Of course, like many things, they don't want to. If we go by what the devs will actually do, that doesn't leave us with any options beyond waiting for the world to burn (this applies to all balance topics, not just this specific thread).

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Awesome and Dragon I can understand the distain Fup... But its a Locust. An Atlas on TT can use one as a Club fer cryin' out loud!

I think implementing this into the game would vastly improve the Locust's damage capabilities.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 09 May 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

The rides in TT weren't designed to be remotely like real combat equipment, at least not for the most part. They were incredibly poorly designed in ways such as using T1 autocannons (except the '20) on any build, not having backup energy weapons, having too little ammo, having no long-range weapons, having too little armor, having too little or too much speed, having too small of a payload, being too heat efficient or not heat efficient enough, etc. etc.

Take for example...that Charger you mentioned. That is not built like something an intelligent military playing-to-win would build. Real militaries would prefer unflawed machines like the Hellstar or your 3 ERPPC + 2 Gauss Stone Rhinos.

You'd think that would be true, but To much crap is done by committee that stupid is not unheard of in the military.

Khobai, on 09 May 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Its a pure recon mech it doesnt need weapons. Its whole job is snapping photographs of enemy mechs in compromising positions.

Ever see one on the table?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 May 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[Odins Fist]

FupDup, on 09 May 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

If we go by what the devs will actually do, that doesn't leave us with any options beyond waiting for the world to burn

That's a dark way to look at things.. I don't want the world to burn..!!!

I think someone needs a hug.. Hey Joseph... Get over here Fup needs a hug..!! I will take the pic, LOL.

[Joseph Mallan]

Odins Fist, on 09 May 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

That's a dark way to look at things.. I don't want the world to burn..!!!

I think someone needs a hug.. Hey Joseph... Get over here Fup needs a hug..!! I will take the pic, LOL.

I'm afraid I'd hurt him!

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

I'm afraid I'd hurt him!

Baby don't hurt me.

Odins Fist, on 09 May 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

That's a dark way to look at things.. I don't want the world to burn..!!!

I think someone needs a hug.. Hey Joseph... Get over here Fup needs a hug..!! I will take the pic, LOL.

[Khobai]

Quote

I will take the pic, LOL.

Ostscout-7K will take the pic

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 09 May 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Baby don't hurt me.

Its OK Fup... I'll just use the Tip!