105 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

Livewyr's MWO life story synopsis:
Sees MWO, and manages to get into the CBT, after many years playing MW4 PR1 and MP3. Gets giddy because the game is beautiful (by comparison) even inthe CBT. Has forum and in-game conversations with Paul (lostech now) and begins imagining all the things MWO could do with Community Warfare (base defense upgrades, hot drops, 12v12 company battles with individual lances [back then it was 8v8 with no Guarantee you'd be in the same match, let alone team.] individual weapons manufacturers, etc...) And a White Knight was born. Valiant defending still generally unknowns against people who predicted the game wouldn't last a year. (This being in 2012)
Then MWO [sic] Guardian ECM happened.. and it was an abomination for game balance so I tried the constructive criticism of PGI's implementation (Threads, PMs to then Comm Manager, Tickets, etc..) with what was wrong, and ways to change it to be closer to information warfare, along with changes to other systems to get the Info Warfare aspect.
5-6 months of many polls, threads, and PMs, along with lateral changes to the ECM/Counter interaction, PGI expressly said that ECM was where they wanted it. (Citing community outrage on both sides as balance.) A relentless Doomsday Critic emerged from the rubble of instant rusted white armor.
This phoenix of doomed burned brightly for a few months, decrying everything short of libel against PGI (particularly Russ and Paul) and eventually uninstalled for a few months, telling hsi friends not to bother.

(Once in a while I would picture an Autocannon or a Gauss Rifle firing and get a hankering to play- eventually that led me to where I am now.) I give credit, where credit is due.
U.I. 2.0- Needs work on smoothness and detail, *not* garbage.
Comm Warfare, thoroughly disappointed in lack of progress.
ECM, a four-letter-word (acronym) with 3 letters.
Private matches/lobbies- EXCELLENT. Can always be improved, but had no initial real complaints.
Mechs, pretty.
Maps, pretty but few. (Bases need changed on Alpine)

And I could go on.. but the point is: After being so far to both sides, one at a time, I've come to a balanced look at PGI.

They've done wonderful things (particularly Alex) and they've done mind boggling things (ECM/Information Warfare) but they're still going. Doomsday avenue 1: These guys obviously do care about the game, whether it's a love of B-Tech, or just putting food on the table at home, they want it to succeed. (If it was just a cash grab, they'd have to answer to their investors and probably several civil/class, corporate, and/or government lawsuits. Not healthy for the livelihood of a programmer/businessman.)

With that said, I move onto Doomsday avenue 2: The Intellectual Property. Many people (including myself briefly) thought the game should just die so another developer could pick it up and do it right. The problem we run into is 'fact.' Before MWO, the last studio produced new Mech Title for PC was MW4, a decade earlier. (I don't count MWLL because that was a mod to an existing game, and was bound to hit the legal wall...as it did.)
Depending on how much you think you can trust it, you should check out the story from Russ on how Mechwarrior (5/reboot) became MWO. Hint: That Campaign trailer we saw was their pitch to publishers to pick up the title for a new installment. Given the overall decline in BTech interest/market when compared to FPS's like CoD/BF4, it's not difficult to understand why a publisher would not want to pick up a huge project like Mechwarrior. Thus PGI/IGP took it up as a free to play model with a crowd-source kickstart. (Minimal financial risks to investors/publisher compared to a full pre-release budget.) Ergo that minimum viable product, Russ kept repeating. (So hoping PGI fails in order to get a different developer/publisher is tantamount to shooting yourself in the foot with the IP.)

What do I think we should do now? I think we should continue to send in tickets, ask direct (productive) questions, and offer suggestions.. in a way we'd want to be advised. Stay tuned to the game, try each new thing, give constructive criticisms (Hint: "You failed, Copy Smurfy," is not a constructive criticism or a suggestion.

Most importantly, look objectively (not subjectively or comparatively) at the game, and offer criticisms and suggestions accordingly.

Be patient, nobody is telling you to spend money on the game, you do that at your own leisure/comfort level. Don't like what you see? Don't spend money.

That does not include telling everyone else to stop spending money.. they may like what they see enough to do so.

[Bishop Steiner]

Livewyr, on 27 May 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

Livewyr's MWO life story synopsis:
Sees MWO, and manages to get into the CBT, after many years playing MW4 PR1 and MP3. Gets giddy because the game is beautiful (by comparison) even inthe CBT. Has forum and in-game conversations with Paul (lostech now) and begins imagining all the things MWO could do with Community Warfare (base defense upgrades, hot drops, 12v12 company battles with individual lances [back then it was 8v8 with no Guarantee you'd be in the same match, let alone team.] individual weapons manufacturers, etc...) And a White Knight was born. Valiant defending still generally unknowns against people who predicted the game wouldn't last a year. (This being in 2012)
Then MWO [sic] Guardian ECM happened.. and it was an abomination for game balance so I tried the constructive criticism of PGI's implementation (Threads, PMs to then Comm Manager, Tickets, etc..) with what was wrong, and ways to change it to be closer to information warfare, along with changes to other systems to get the Info Warfare aspect.
5-6 months of many polls, threads, and PMs, along with lateral changes to the ECM/Counter interaction, PGI expressly said that ECM was where they wanted it. (Citing community outrage on both sides as balance.) A relentless Doomsday Critic emerged from the rubble of instant rusted white armor.
This phoenix of doomed burned brightly for a few months, decrying everything short of libel against PGI (particularly Russ and Paul) and eventually uninstalled for a few months, telling hsi friends not to bother.

(Once in a while I would picture an Autocannon or a Gauss Rifle firing and get a hankering to play- eventually that led me to where I am now.) I give credit, where credit is due.
U.I. 2.0- Needs work on smoothness and detail, *not* garbage.
Comm Warfare, thoroughly disappointed in lack of progress.
ECM, a four-letter-word (acronym) with 3 letters.
Private matches/lobbies- EXCELLENT. Can always be improved, but had no initial real complaints.
Mechs, pretty.
Maps, pretty but few. (Bases need changed on Alpine)

And I could go on.. but the point is: After being so far to both sides, one at a time, I've come to a balanced look at PGI.

They've done wonderful things (particularly Alex) and they've done mind boggling things (ECM/Information Warfare) but they're still going. Doomsday avenue 1: These guys obviously do care about the game, whether it's a love of B-Tech, or just putting food on the table at home, they want it to succeed. (If it was just a cash grab, they'd have to answer to their investors and probably several civil/class, corporate, and/or government lawsuits. Not healthy for the livelihood of a programmer/businessman.)

With that said, I move onto Doomsday avenue 2: The Intellectual Property. Many people (including myself briefly) thought the game should just die so another developer could pick it up and do it right. The problem we run into is 'fact.' Before MWO, the last studio produced new Mech Title for PC was MW4, a decade earlier. (I don't count MWLL because that was a mod to an existing game, and was bound to hit the legal wall...as it did.)
Depending on how much you think you can trust it, you should check out the story from Russ on how Mechwarrior (5/reboot) became MWO. Hint: That Campaign trailer we saw was their pitch to publishers to pick up the title for a new installment. Given the overall decline in BTech interest/market when compared to FPS's like CoD/BF4, it's not difficult to understand why a publisher would not want to pick up a huge project like Mechwarrior. Thus PGI/IGP took it up as a free to play model with a crowd-source kickstart. (Minimal financial risks to investors/publisher compared to a full pre-release budget.) Ergo that minimum viable product, Russ kept repeating. (So hoping PGI fails in order to get a different developer/publisher is tantamount to shooting yourself in the foot with the IP.)

What do I think we should do now? I think we should continue to send in tickets, ask direct (productive) questions, and offer suggestions.. in a way we'd want to be advised. Stay tuned to the game, try each new thing, give constructive criticisms (Hint: "You failed, Copy Smurfy," is not a constructive criticism or a suggestion.

Most importantly, look objectively (not subjectively or comparatively) at the game, and offer criticisms and suggestions accordingly.

Be patient, nobody is telling you to spend money on the game, you do that at your own leisure/comfort level. Don't like what you see? Don't spend money.

That does not include telling everyone else to stop spending money.. they may like what they see enough to do so.

is there like...Cliffsnotes for the relevant points?


Please?

[BARBAR0SSA]

MW:LL did NOT hit a legal wall, that rumor was fake as stated by Criminal of the MW:LL Team, IGP/PGI did NOT drop a lawsuit on them.

http://www.escapistm...-Pulls-the-Plug

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

is there like...Cliffsnotes for the relevant points?


Please?

"Loved it... hated it... has healthy respect but is past holding his breath".

Now he's pining for Packers pre-season to start like any good cheese-head would...

[Jun Watarase]

Quote

I think we should continue to send in tickets, ask direct (productive) questions, and offer suggestions.. in a way we'd want to be advised

Why?

Lets say we were to spend 10 hours writing up very long and detailed suggestions. What are the odds of it getting into the game? Pretty much zero (ask anyone who has been here since closed beta).

See ECM. Plenty of very well thought out and detailed posts have been made as to why the current implementation is horrible, complete with suggestions. And yet we still have this ridiculous cloaking mechanism that makes you immune to LRMs/streaks with a 1.5 ton module. How many of the suggestions were used? Zero?

We do not get compensated in any way for posting suggesitons and feedback, we do not even get recognized, nor is there any indication that the suggestions and feedback are taken seriously at all....so the logical conclusion is that we shouldnt do it.

Even in the reddit Q&A, Russ refused to discuss the PPC/Ballistic boating meta which has been a core problem plaguing the game for like....a year?

[Dracol]

Jun Watarase, on 27 May 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

We do not get compensated in any way for posting suggesitons and feedback, we do not even get recognized, nor is there any indication that the suggestions and feedback are taken seriously at all....so the logical conclusion is that we shouldnt do it.

Does someone feel they deserve an internet cookie?

[RedDragon]

What I don't understand:

Quote

Thus PGI/IGP took it up as a free to play model with a crowd-source kickstart.

Why didn't they just do the Kickstarter and produce the game as advertised in the trailer? The money would have been the same, they could even have included much higher tiers and we would have paid for it. So why do we have to live with this awkward F2P-model now?

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 27 May 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

"Loved it... hated it... has healthy respect but is past holding his breath".

Now he's pining for Packers pre-season to start like any good cheese-head would...

Ah, so same boat as me, except for the Packers thing.... GO NINERS!!!!!!!!!

[Solahma]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

GO NINERS!!!!!!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/RQ39mK5.jpg

[Bishop Steiner]

Solahma, on 27 May 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/RQ39mK5.jpg

I.
HATE.
YOU.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Jun Watarase, on 27 May 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

We do not get compensated in any way for posting suggesitons and feedback, we do not even get recognized, nor is there any indication that the suggestions and feedback are taken seriously at all....so the logical conclusion is that we shouldnt do it.

I've actually seen several community-suggested changes come through, though there tends to be a six-month lag or thereabouts.

AC dps regularization, for instance, was floating around on the forums before last Christmas (though IIRC the AC2's dps was suggested to be around 2.0 instead of 3.0, but that assumed it'd retain its huge range advantage).

SSRM bone tracking being changed from joints (nonsensical; I have no idea why PGI ever thought to do it that way) to center-mass for the bone was a much more quickly adopted change.

NARCs giving LoS-free targets was a huge buff that was suggested by the forums.

BAP as a counter to ECM was a forum suggestion, IIRC, though more of a temporary measure pending a rework of the entire ECM system (the latter naturally hasn't happened yet).

Burst-fire UACs and LBX ACs with slug alternate munitions have been requested by the forums many times, and it looks like the Clans will be test-driving those changes.

There are a few others that were at least floating around the forums well before PGI did anything with them, but the above are the big ones that I can remember easily.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

I.
HATE.
YOU.

He's my new best friend...

[Roadkill]

Solahma, on 27 May 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/RQ39mK5.jpg

I have that same paint on a pair of Thuds. I had it on a pair of 'Hawks for a while, too, but that just seemed to obvious.

Bishop, please tell me you're not one of the Forty Whiners.

[Kjudoon]

DaZur, on 27 May 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

Now he's pining for Packers pre-season to start like any good cheese-head would...

Boopityboop!

Wait... was there a different conversation going on here? I was distracted.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 May 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[Iqfish]

Look at me, look at my post history.

Now look back at you.

Open your eyes man.

[Jin Ma]

What white knights don't understand is that all Critics were white knights at one time

[Dracol]

Jin Ma, on 27 May 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

What white knights don't understand is that all Critics were white knights at one time

I'm pretty sure there are a few people who hated on the game from the get go. If nothing else, simply because what they wanted was a single player campaign like the good'o days.

[MonkeyCheese]

Im just somewhat in a apathetic state right now when it comes to development/progress.

Still waiting for a caustic variant.
CW is a myth till I see it on a test server.
Still drive the bad variants/mechs.

But after taking that 3/4month break myself I still found the basic game fun and enjoyable especially considering my craptastic Australian connection so bravo to PGI for that part. so im still playing and I said to my self what the hell and got a uller clan pack to cus slow weapon boating lights sounds fun. I have 3k MC sitting there for more mechbays when more mechs I want come out and will instantly add more if a hero locust/spider comes out.

So just waiting on PGIs next move.

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 27 May 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

He's my new best friend...

I hate you , too.

Roadkill, on 27 May 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

I have that same paint on a pair of Thuds. I had it on a pair of 'Hawks for a while, too, but that just seemed to obvious.

Bishop, please tell me you're not one of the Forty Whiners.

Oh don't you She Squawks even try to get started. Get your team into a Drug Dependency program, and win about 4 more of them rings (buy Richard SHerman a muzzle), then come back and started squawkin!

(I always have been a Russell Wilson guy though.... rooted for him at NC State and Wisconsin. )

[Bishop Steiner]

Dracol, on 27 May 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure there are a few people who hated on the game from the get go. If nothing else, simply because what they wanted was a single player campaign like the good'o days.

this is true. There have always been some totally unreasonable sort, who have had a vendetta, because of it not having TT armor, ECM not being to their interpretations, etc. The ones calling for MWO to crash and burn, under the misguided delusion that there are suitor just waiting in the wings to scoop the IP license up from Microsoft (ignoring the decade of torpor the title underwent).

But I would say the majority of the Critics today, are not of that ilk, but are more like myself, or many others, former champions and white knights, who grew burned out and disillusioned, and finally during one borked patch after another, orr listening to another NGNG Interview with a Dev yammering on with ideas, clearly out of touch with the majority of their core community....... and it just snapped.

Heck, i can't even remember what pushed me over to the "Dark Side".

Thing is, most of us, still want the game to succeed. Many of us still WANT to give them the benefit of the doubt. Many of us still see the underlying, if untapped potential to the game.

We just can't bring ourselves to have faith in their promises anymore until they actually start showing us real progress, not releasing barely viable, borked items, missing half their promised functionality, like the "groundbreaking UI2.0" or Launch Module. I WANT the Clan Launch to go well and be a BIG deal. I want CW to arrive and blow my socks off.

But unlike some delusional sorts, I cannot expect it anymore. When they finally start hitting close to the mark, with working features, then I will be willing to start giving them that benefit I once did.