179 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 10 May 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

"Balance the game"? Haven't you guys been listening to the podcasts? PGI thinks the game IS balanced.

Balance is variable depending on who you talk to. So we can have up to 500K ideas of what balance is!

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 May 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

Balance is variable depending on who you talk to. So we can have up to 500K ideas of what balance is!

Not to mention the dozen or so different ways to come up with a more acceptable match than what we've been getting for what, now...6 months? How long has this stupid Elo thing actually been active now? Whatever.

Davers is right, though. Every single interview-ish sort of thing that PGI puts out indicates that they're pleased with the direction the game is going and that things are hunky-dory. I'm sure that if they actually communicated with their community in any meaningful fashion and actually took what they were being told to heart, their opinion may be different. But they don't, so it isn't.

Oh well. Maybe they should put some kind of mandatory group recruitment thing up when you first make your account....or at least put up some warning that "playing solo will not provide the type of experience we intend you to receive. To truly receive the Mechwarrior experience, you MUST join a premade team."

[Joseph Mallan]

I know your point Phule, but I'm the guy who when I was introduced to my wife's friends it went like this,
*Hand shake*
"I'm Sorry."
"For what?"
" I am going to say, or do something that WILL upset you. It is not personal. I do not intend to, but I will. I say things the way I see them and that upsets folks. That I cannot stop, but I will not change who I am because someone doesn't like it."
...
...
"Ok!"
"Cool. Glad to meet you.!"
That's my philosophy with life. I expect others to be the same way. If PGI makes this game into something I don't like I will simply go,"So long and thanks for all the fish."

[Willard Phule]

*shrug*

I hear you, man. I'm pretty much the same way but reserve the Private's perrogative to complain while I accomplish the task.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 10 May 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

*shrug*

I hear you, man. I'm pretty much the same way but reserve the Private's perrogative to complain while I accomplish the task.

Oh I complain! But I have better thing to spend my fury on than a game I on't have to spend money on to play.

[1453 R]

Zerberus, on 10 May 2014 - 02:27 AM, said:

We`re here for Battletech and our respective Clans and Houses, not an open world pseudo-Solaris simulator, and that`s why none of us have aligned ourselves with units yet. No CW, no customer, and no community league that offers us zero in the way of actual rewards (C-bills, XP, eventually loyalty perks) has the potential to change that. If we can`t earn c-bills for accomplishing missions /contracts, it`S not BT, and by direct correlation not a game we need to be associated with. We would simply play MW tactics and LL exclusively, albeit in a much more leisurely fashion.

See?

This.

This is exactly what I mean when I say that lone wolves are being actively punished by any/all of The Community's visions for CW.

Does anyone have the remotest interest in letting lone wolves keep up with all the phat lewtz that anyone fighting FOR THE GLORY OF HOUSE SOMEONE gets? Nope. Not a soul. We're just supposed to accept falling further and further behind, and if we want to catch up? W ell boy howdy there son, just pick a faction, find a unit to join, get on TS3 and start running them league drops already, foo'!

You know what the BattleTech I love is? The BattleTech I love is the stories told to me by the novels I devoured in job lots as a kid. The stories where Kai Allard-Liao and Victor Davion are heroes, where Katherine is a deceitful, power-hungry usurper, where the Clans are invading to save the Inner Sphere from itself one way or another. Where Phelan Kell and his Wolves-in-Exile fulfill Kerensky's dreams of the Clans protecting people by protecting people instead of blowing them up in the name of Kerensky's dream to protect people I'M LOOKING AT YOU SMOKED JAGUARS O_O. Where the commander of a single mercenary company on some bass-ackwards planet in the back of the Suns gets an entire book to tell his story, and it's awesome because it's not about nothing but the political maneuvering of star nations.

The very same stories, the very same BattleTech, that all the closed beta folks, all the die-hard TT folks, all you people who're so desperate for Community Warfare, tells me is a twisted, horrible mockery of the real BattleTech, which is about the political maneuvering of star nations, the internal bickering and infighting of the Clans as they all, to the last man, fail horribly to live up to Kerensky's vision, and apparently complaining about the fact that the Capellan Confederation gets unfairly shat upon at every turn and should, in fact, be the most powerful and dominant Successor State in the Inner Sphere.

Pardon me if I don't particularly care about your BattleTech. In MWO, I can pilot a Shadowhawk and use it to bring ruination to my foes. I've been wanting to do that for about half my life now. if you just can't live without CW, then cool, demand it all you like - but don't you dare tell the rest of us who Lone Wolf because we don't like the Capellan Confederation to shut up and pick a faction already.

I'd love to - but since my views on the factions are horribly skewed and a disgrace to true BattleTech fans, I guess I'll just Lone Wolf it up. And apparently never earn a C-bill again, according to your vision of Community Warfare.

[Joseph Mallan]

1453 R, on 10 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

See?

This.

This is exactly what I mean when I say that lone wolves are being actively punished by any/all of The Community's visions for CW.

Does anyone have the remotest interest in letting lone wolves keep up with all the phat lewtz that anyone fighting FOR THE GLORY OF HOUSE SOMEONE gets? Nope. Not a soul. We're just supposed to accept falling further and further behind, and if we want to catch up? W ell boy howdy there son, just pick a faction, find a unit to join, get on TS3 and start running them league drops already, foo'!

You know what the BattleTech I love is? The BattleTech I love is the stories told to me by the novels I devoured in job lots as a kid. The stories where Kai Allard-Liao and Victor Davion are heroes, where Katherine is a deceitful, power-hungry usurper, where the Clans are invading to save the Inner Sphere from itself one way or another. Where Phelan Kell and his Wolves-in-Exile fulfill Kerensky's dreams of the Clans protecting people by protecting people instead of blowing them up in the name of Kerensky's dream to protect people I'M LOOKING AT YOU SMOKED JAGUARS O_O. Where the commander of a single mercenary company on some bass-ackwards planet in the back of the Suns gets an entire book to tell his story, and it's awesome because it's not about nothing but the political maneuvering of star nations.

The very same stories, the very same BattleTech, that all the closed beta folks, all the die-hard TT folks, all you people who're so desperate for Community Warfare, tells me is a twisted, horrible mockery of the real BattleTech, which is about the political maneuvering of star nations, the internal bickering and infighting of the Clans as they all, to the last man, fail horribly to live up to Kerensky's vision, and apparently complaining about the fact that the Capellan Confederation gets unfairly shat upon at every turn and should, in fact, be the most powerful and dominant Successor State in the Inner Sphere.

Pardon me if I don't particularly care about your BattleTech. In MWO, I can pilot a Shadowhawk and use it to bring ruination to my foes. I've been wanting to do that for about half my life now. if you just can't live without CW, then cool, demand it all you like - but don't you dare tell the rest of us who Lone Wolf because we don't like the Capellan Confederation to shut up and pick a faction already.

I'd love to - but since my views on the factions are horribly skewed and a disgrace to true BattleTech fans, I guess I'll just Lone Wolf it up. And apparently never earn a C-bill again, according to your vision of Community Warfare.

Wow... Thats a lot a passion there sir. Gotta question for you, an honest one. Should we care if you get "Your share"? You have no backing, you affiliate with no one so you have no loyalty. Why would a Command/House do anything moe than use you as you are using them? A House is nothing but a Paycheck to you, well in return you are an expendable asset. Plain and simple and on a personal note, A Lone Wolf is a person I do not know. and if I have to chose between you and a friend/family... guess who gets the shaft? Human nature 101.

other than that, it was a really good write up, very impressive.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 May 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[MrZakalwe]

What's all the chatter about? This game doesn't have nearly the playerbase to support community warfare.

[1453 R]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 May 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Wow... Thats a lot a passion there sir. Gotta question for you, an honest one. Should we care if you get "Your share"? You have no backing, you affiliate with no one so you have no loyalty. Why would a Command/House do anything moe than use you as you are using them? A House is nothing but a Paycheck to you, well in return you are an expendable asset. Plain and simple and on a personal note, A Lone Wolf is a person I do not know. and if I have to chose between you and a friend/family... guess who gets the shaft? Human nature 101.

other than that, it was a really good write up, very impressive.

In answer to your question:

From a lore perspective, of course not. From an accessibility and equal-gameplay aspect? Yeah, you really should.

I don't particularly care if House players get special loyalty tracks or whatever that gets them extra ranks/decoratives/titles/whatevers with their choice of faction that I don't get. That's their prerogative for joining said faction. But cutting C-bill/XP earnings down to less than half of what a House player gets because you don't get Super-Awesome Secret Missions to complete? Yeah, screw that noise. The C-bill grind is brutal enough as it is.

The Community says that anything that's not in a sourcebook is Utter Heresy, and that the novelists who brought the world alive for me are out-and-out crooks who Ruined Everything. Why should I give the remotest rat about The Community, when they want me and anyone else who hasn't been pounding tabletop for twenty years to uninstall and leave already anyways, eh?

You want yours, fine. That's cool, that's fair - but why, I ask, must it come at the expense of everyone else's?

[Joseph Mallan]

1453 R, on 10 May 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

In answer to your question:

From a lore perspective, of course not. From an accessibility and equal-gameplay aspect? Yeah, you really should.

I don't particularly care if House players get special loyalty tracks or whatever that gets them extra ranks/decoratives/titles/whatevers with their choice of faction that I don't get. That's their prerogative for joining said faction. But cutting C-bill/XP earnings down to less than half of what a House player gets because you don't get Super-Awesome Secret Missions to complete? Yeah, screw that noise. The C-bill grind is brutal enough as it is.

The Community says that anything that's not in a sourcebook is Utter Heresy, and that the novelists who brought the world alive for me are out-and-out crooks who Ruined Everything. Why should I give the remotest rat about The Community, when they want me and anyone else who hasn't been pounding tabletop for twenty years to uninstall and leave already anyways, eh?

You want yours, fine. That's cool, that's fair - but why, I ask, must it come at the expense of everyone else's?

Not everyone else... Just those who have no loyalty to House or Planet. You choose to be Ronin, take the good with the bad.

[Davers]

1453 R, on 10 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

See?

This.

This is exactly what I mean when I say that lone wolves are being actively punished by any/all of The Community's visions for CW.

Does anyone have the remotest interest in letting lone wolves keep up with all the phat lewtz that anyone fighting FOR THE GLORY OF HOUSE SOMEONE gets? Nope. Not a soul. We're just supposed to accept falling further and further behind, and if we want to catch up? W ell boy howdy there son, just pick a faction, find a unit to join, get on TS3 and start running them league drops already, foo'!

You know what the BattleTech I love is? The BattleTech I love is the stories told to me by the novels I devoured in job lots as a kid. The stories where Kai Allard-Liao and Victor Davion are heroes, where Katherine is a deceitful, power-hungry usurper, where the Clans are invading to save the Inner Sphere from itself one way or another. Where Phelan Kell and his Wolves-in-Exile fulfill Kerensky's dreams of the Clans protecting people by protecting people instead of blowing them up in the name of Kerensky's dream to protect people I'M LOOKING AT YOU SMOKED JAGUARS O_O. Where the commander of a single mercenary company on some bass-ackwards planet in the back of the Suns gets an entire book to tell his story, and it's awesome because it's not about nothing but the political maneuvering of star nations.

The very same stories, the very same BattleTech, that all the closed beta folks, all the die-hard TT folks, all you people who're so desperate for Community Warfare, tells me is a twisted, horrible mockery of the real BattleTech, which is about the political maneuvering of star nations, the internal bickering and infighting of the Clans as they all, to the last man, fail horribly to live up to Kerensky's vision, and apparently complaining about the fact that the Capellan Confederation gets unfairly shat upon at every turn and should, in fact, be the most powerful and dominant Successor State in the Inner Sphere.

Pardon me if I don't particularly care about your BattleTech. In MWO, I can pilot a Shadowhawk and use it to bring ruination to my foes. I've been wanting to do that for about half my life now. if you just can't live without CW, then cool, demand it all you like - but don't you dare tell the rest of us who Lone Wolf because we don't like the Capellan Confederation to shut up and pick a faction already.

I'd love to - but since my views on the factions are horribly skewed and a disgrace to true BattleTech fans, I guess I'll just Lone Wolf it up. And apparently never earn a C-bill again, according to your vision of Community Warfare.

Are you reading the same posts as I am? I do not see where you are getting your views from. Who has attacked your views on factions? Until this very post no one even knew what they were, or if you even had any previous BT experience.

You say you love the stories, but you want to keep all that out of the game? The game originally promised to follow the timeline. Wouldn't you want to be able to say "I helped stop the Clans at Tukayyd"? Or that you carved out a pirate kingdom in the Periphery? Not saying that these are real possibilities, but one can dream.

No one is trying to take your stuff. No one is trying to ruin 'your game'. Everything you are doing in game right now will still be there.

[Koniving]

For 1453 R,
Unless you're in a Merc Unit or Faction Unit (as in a faction version of Mercs not just 'oh I'm Marik'), CW won't have much effect on your gameplay.

Like regular faction players, as a lone wolf you'll join random fights in the queue and hear stuff about how the war is going. You will have the same gameplay as them, though a bit more variety in who you're slapped in with. And while you may or may not have the benefits of those who "joined a faction" and are fighting along side others like themselves, you have your own set of perks including hunting me down for a bounty. C'mon, in what other game can you make a payday hunting me down? From what I recall, bounties were specifically a Lone Wolf (Merc Life) trait. Extra cash for hunting down and fighting another player in a one on one fight.

The "Unit" level stuff is basically an additional game within the game with other aspects that many of us are longing for to add some depth.

From what I can see, the Faction/Wolf play and the Merc/Faction Unit play are separated only for the sake of Casual and Hardcore experiences.

[1453 R]

All right...going to try and rein it in a little. This discussion, among many other factors, has me thoroughly cheesed off, but those other factors aren't your folks' fault. Anyways.

Koniving, on 10 May 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

For 1453 R,
Unless you're in a Merc Unit or Faction Unit (as in a faction version of Mercs not just 'oh I'm Marik'), CW won't have much effect on your gameplay.

Like regular faction players, as a lone wolf you'll join random fights in the queue and hear stuff about how the war is going. You will have the same gameplay as them, though a bit more variety in who you're slapped in with. And while you may or may not have the benefits of those who "joined a faction" and are fighting along side others like themselves, you have your own set of perks including hunting me down for a bounty. C'mon, in what other game can you make a payday hunting me down? From what I recall, bounties were specifically a Lone Wolf (Merc Life) trait. Extra cash for hunting down and fighting another player in a one on one fight.

The "Unit" level stuff is basically an additional game within the game with other aspects that many of us are longing for to add some depth.

From what I can see, the Faction/Wolf play and the Merc/Faction Unit play are separated only for the sake of Casual and Hardcore experiences.

My position is mostly one of “If my gameplay is unaffected, but everyone else gets +50% stuff because CW, then my gameplay is not even remotely 'unaffected'”. I'll admitt hat I hadn't/haven't watched that video of Bryan's yet – I have some pretty strong opinions on the subject of 'release' and the launch party, and taking a deliberate disinterest in it was/is a way of showing those opinions – but if you're right, then cool. Admittedly I'm never going to complete a bounty because I suck at duels and also because I'm most def in the lower range of the Elo curve (horrifying terribad aim does that to a person), but the attempt will have been made.

That's what I want, and what most CW people seem to be actively against. If a House Davion player gets the game we have now, as well as +50% Action Movie Hero Guy bonuses, a House Kurita player gets the game we have now as well as +50% Stoic Disciplined Samurai bonuses, and a House Liao player gets the game we have now as well as +50% Tyrannical Secret Police bonuses (COME ON. UNDER NEITHER ROMANO NOR SUN-TZU ARE YOU GUYS ANYWHERE REMOTELY GOOD/NICE PEOPLE O_O), then maybe, just maybe, a Lone Wolf player should get the game we have now, as well as +50% badass Desperado Gunslinger bonuses?

Because however much you might dislike it, 'Lone Wolf' is in fact an actively selectable faction in this game, and until the day when I can select Clan Wolf – and not get all manner of scorn and derision for following in Phelan's footsteps rather than picking whichever invasion Clan had the best write-up in the sourcebooks – and ride out in my Stormcrow-F to send some space vikings to space Valhalla, Lone Wolf is how it's going to be.

And at the same time, I categorically refuse, and strongly encourage everyone else to categorically refuse, to believe that Community Warfare will Save Mechwarrior Online. If you hate the game now, nothing they can do with CW will make it better. The ridiculous expectations people are putting on this feature are frankly nothing short of self-destructive. When you expect the Moon and someone hands you a wheel of cheese, it really doesn't matter if it's actually perfectly edible cheese that, with a little garnish and some aging, could actually turn into really pretty good cheese. You wanted the Moon, not cheese, and never you mind that you were looking for the Moon at a cheesemonger's stall. You're going to be crazy upset and that cheese isn't going to do you a lick of good, no matter how good it is – and it'll be your own fault.

[Zerberus]

1453 R, on 10 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

See?

This.

This is exactly what I mean when I say that lone wolves are being actively punished by any/all of The Community's visions for CW.

Does anyone have the remotest interest in letting lone wolves keep up with all the phat lewtz that anyone fighting FOR THE GLORY OF HOUSE SOMEONE gets? Nope. Not a soul. We're just supposed to accept falling further and further behind, and if we want to catch up? W ell boy howdy there son, just pick a faction, find a unit to join, get on TS3 and start running them league drops already, foo'!

You know what the BattleTech I love is? The BattleTech I love is the stories told to me by the novels I devoured in job lots as a kid. The stories where Kai Allard-Liao and Victor Davion are heroes, where Katherine is a deceitful, power-hungry usurper, where the Clans are invading to save the Inner Sphere from itself one way or another. Where Phelan Kell and his Wolves-in-Exile fulfill Kerensky's dreams of the Clans protecting people by protecting people instead of blowing them up in the name of Kerensky's dream to protect people I'M LOOKING AT YOU SMOKED JAGUARS O_O. Where the commander of a single mercenary company on some bass-ackwards planet in the back of the Suns gets an entire book to tell his story, and it's awesome because it's not about nothing but the political maneuvering of star nations.

The very same stories, the very same BattleTech, that all the closed beta folks, all the die-hard TT folks, all you people who're so desperate for Community Warfare, tells me is a twisted, horrible mockery of the real BattleTech, which is about the political maneuvering of star nations, the internal bickering and infighting of the Clans as they all, to the last man, fail horribly to live up to Kerensky's vision, and apparently complaining about the fact that the Capellan Confederation gets unfairly shat upon at every turn and should, in fact, be the most powerful and dominant Successor State in the Inner Sphere.

Pardon me if I don't particularly care about your BattleTech. In MWO, I can pilot a Shadowhawk and use it to bring ruination to my foes. I've been wanting to do that for about half my life now. if you just can't live without CW, then cool, demand it all you like - but don't you dare tell the rest of us who Lone Wolf because we don't like the Capellan Confederation to shut up and pick a faction already.

I'd love to - but since my views on the factions are horribly skewed and a disgrace to true BattleTech fans, I guess I'll just Lone Wolf it up. And apparently never earn a C-bill again, according to your vision of Community Warfare.

If this is directed at the quoted passage, you misunderstood it in the most spectacular way possible and are "fighting" your own allies as a result. Contrary to what your post implies, I have most certainly never advocated any sort of faction specific disadvantages OR advantages for players of any faction.

If not, I don`t understand the purpose of the quote at all.

Now, if on the other hand you prefer to completely forego Community warfare as such of ayour own accord and simply continue to play in the PUG Sandbox / training /just for fun queue, then you should not be entitled to Loyalty point gains or any other CW specific rewards like reduced prices or faction specific paintjobs as a result of your performance in those matches. Kind of obvious IMO, If I invest zero effort, I should reap zero reward. If you play some CW and some Just for fun, then you should be awarded CW based benefits based on your performance in the "ranked" matches you played, but not for the funbox queue.

Just like playing golf, tennis, or any other spoort for that matter: If you only ever play for fun with your buddies and never enter a tournament, then you will never gain prize money for winning one. If you do some and some, then you will probably have at least somne winnings from tourneys, and if you are full pro then you`re probably paying your bills with it. The exact same should apply here IMO.

Edited by Zerberus, 10 May 2014 - 01:54 PM.

[Harmatia]

Optimization and balance is never ending.

[Roland]

1354 says he likes the battletech lore and stories, but doesn't want to actually see any of the battletech universe represented in game.

Derp.

[Odins Fist]

Dymlos2003, on 09 May 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

I think PGI should hold off on CW for now.

Yeah, um.... 2 years of waiting, and uh... um... "NO"

They need to get things done, they have literally run out of excuses for the slow development.

[1453 R]

Roland, on 10 May 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

1354 says he likes the battletech lore and stories, but doesn't want to actually see any of the battletech universe represented in game.

Derp.

Way to twist things around, buddy.

Community Warfare has nothing whatsoever to do with the 'lore' of BattleTech. And even if it did, apparently the 'lore' of BattleTech comes explicitly and exclusively from the sourcebooks I've never read, and any other source - including the dozens of novels and stories which is the BattleTech universe to me - is nothing but a foul dis-canon assault on the series proper, even worse than MechAssault was. Or didn't ye think I'd figured out why two-thirds of the players on the forum fly CapCon flags? I've been specifically instructed that much of it is in protest to the 'unacceptable warping effect' that the novels had on the canon.

Tell me Roland, if you would be so kind...how am I supposed to give a rat about all this depth and story you want in the game so much, when I've been told to my face that I need to be ashamed of the BT 'verse I grew up on, eh?

[Davers]

1453 R, on 10 May 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

Way to twist things around, buddy.

Community Warfare has nothing whatsoever to do with the 'lore' of BattleTech. And even if it did, apparently the 'lore' of BattleTech comes explicitly and exclusively from the sourcebooks I've never read, and any other source - including the dozens of novels and stories which is the BattleTech universe to me - is nothing but a foul dis-canon assault on the series proper, even worse than MechAssault was. Or didn't ye think I'd figured out why two-thirds of the players on the forum fly CapCon flags? I've been specifically instructed that much of it is in protest to the 'unacceptable warping effect' that the novels had on the canon.

Tell me Roland, if you would be so kind...how am I supposed to give a rat about all this depth and story you want in the game so much, when I've been told to my face that I need to be ashamed of the BT 'verse I grew up on, eh?

I dunno what part of the forum you go to that people say that. Have you been discussing Clan Wolf with Craig Steel or something?

[Roland]

I don't even know what that rant was trying to say.