120 replies to this topic

[Bounty Dogg]

Koniving, on 10 May 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

Actually it's preventing me FROM brawling with Gauss Rifles, which was a popular thing.
Far as jumpjet sniping, you can still do that just fire when you let go of the thrusters.

Brawling with Gauss Rifles was pretty common.

Strangely enough, I can STILL brawl with the gauss rifle.....just gotta know the technique

Edited by Bounty Dogg, 11 May 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Ultimax]

LiGhtningFF13, on 11 May 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Well you do need skill to handle them (Gauss) now to get the most efficient damage. But it's not a weapon for everyone here now.

It's not about skill.

It's balance by annoyance, balance through awkward mechanics.

It takes more effort, and people macro their way around it.


You can't macro your way around a min range, or a reverse linear damage drop off based on a min range.

That would have been a drawback, that wasn't annoying.

PPCs were given a min range, and we see them everywhere - because firing them isn't a chore, because you can still snapshot with them, and because you don't need to macro your way around their usage.


Appealing to skill is silly here, it's a video game not neurosurgery.

[Koniving]

Bounty Dogg, on 11 May 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Strangely enough, I can STILL brawl with the gauss rifle.....just gotta know the technique

Indeed. It's just significantly less efficient, isn't it?

[Corwin Vickers]

Ultimatum X, on 11 May 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Appealing to skill is silly here, it's a video game not neurosurgery.

The game should be a lot harder. We shouldn't be hitting 100% of the time much less the exact location we want to hit.

It's the low skills that are holding this off from being a true thinking man's game.

It's an arcade game because people want it to be an arcade game. If I wanted to play a shooter there are plenty of other better shooters where I can 360 no scope and bunny hop to my hearts content.

[InRev]

I know I am going to annoy/offend a lot of people with this post, but Wall-o-text incoming!

Ultimatum X, on 11 May 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Appealing to skill is silly here, it's a video game not neurosurgery.

Video games tend to be (note: not are but rather tend to be) a method of escape for people who live absolutely ordinary and mundane lives and who have very few noteworthy traits or accomplishments.

So, if these utterly Joe Average wannabe-alpha-males need some sort of ego boost or validation, they trumpet their own ability in the virtual world to substitute for lack of ability in the real one.

Thus, the notion that their successes in gaming are due to superior "skill" is absolutely central. In a society in which the whole concept of the dominant alpha male is largely being reevaluated, scorned and rejected, gamers can retreat to the internet to cling on to classic hierarchies in which the "strong" dominate, ostensibly due to their prowess and "skill".

It's why so very many gamers have bigger and more unhealthy egos than even professional athletes, despite the vast gulf between the validity, or relevance, of their chosen activity. If people behaved on sports teams as they behave in games, they would be universally ostracized.

So yes, while an appeal to "skill" is, indeed, absolutely absurd for any rational human being, this is a video game. The idea of "skill" is very, very powerful and alluring here. The fact that success is often due to persistence, high boredom threshold or sheer single-mindedness towards getting another notch in the Win column is conveniently glossed over, with the explanation for success given as, you guessed it, "skill".

Gauss being annoying to use, yet still very, very effective, as long as the user doesn't mind how irritating it is, really exemplifies the fallacy of "skill" in this game. You're not more talented, just more determined.

[Lostdragon]

Koniving, on 11 May 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

It's not a bad idea and it's lore friendly. But you have a few drawbacks here.
The Current damage within 11 seconds is, under perfect conditions, 3 firings for 45 damage for one Gauss Rifle.

Compare this to an AC/20, which has 3 firings in 8 seconds for 60 damage.
Compare this to a PPC, which has 3 firings in 8 seconds for 30 damage.
Compare this to the inferior LL, which has 3 firings in 9.5 seconds for 27 damage. (3.25 second recharge begins AFTER 1 second beam for 4.25 seconds after the first firing to fire again; it's including beam times; 3 beam times gives you 3 seconds, you'd start firing the 3rd shot at 8.5 seconds but it'd last until 9.5).
Compare this to the superior Large Pulse Laser, which has 3 firings in 8.3 seconds for 31.8 damage. (Including 0.6 second beam times, the third shot would be fired at 7.7 seconds but not finish until 8.3).
Compare this to an AC/10 which has 5 firings in 10 seconds for 50 damage.

Now, finally, compare it to a Clan ER PPC, which has 3 firings in 8 seconds for 45 damage.

But wait... we're at 6 seconds per firing instead of 4.75 (charge up time + cooldown) for the Gauss Rifle. The chances for firing failures are gone, but at what cost? In 12 seconds we get 45 damage. + we cannot fire any other weapons to fire at this time (requiring boating).

It would not be a bad idea, if all lasers and autocannons were multi-shot, DPS style weapons. In fact, coupled with how I would have made the entire game it'd be a fantastic idea (as the only instant damage weapons would be PPCs, Missiles and Gauss Rifles).
But they are not done that way.
You'd have to change the entire game to make that mechanic work without completely removing the Gauss Rifle from any possible use (as the Flamer might be more useful).

I think one of the biggest mistakes the devs have made is trying to stick to "canon" values for weapon stats like damage and heat. I think LL did a much better job in that regard particularly and they didn't need ghost heat to do it.

Edited by Lostdragon, 11 May 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Lostdragon, on 11 May 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

I think one of the biggest mistakes the devs have made is trying to stick to "canon" values for weapon stats like damage and heat. I think LL did a much better job in that regard particularly and they didn't need ghost heat to do it.

Well, they kinda failed on keeping TT stats as well. 300% firing rates, 200% armor. AC60s are the result.

[Lostdragon]

Mcgral18, on 11 May 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

Well, they kinda failed on keeping TT stats as well. 300% firing rates, 200% armor. AC60s are the result.

Seems like they just picked very poorly where to stick to canon and where not to do so.

[Prezimonto]

Corwin Vickers, on 11 May 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

The game should be a lot harder. We shouldn't be hitting 100% of the time much less the exact location we want to hit.

It's the low skills that are holding this off from being a true thinking man's game.

It's an arcade game because people want it to be an arcade game. If I wanted to play a shooter there are plenty of other better shooters where I can 360 no scope and bunny hop to my hearts content.

I wish PGI would read this and listen. MWO has been traveling further and further from a slow paced mech simulator since closed beta. Nearly every decision has made the game have a more "arcade" feel.

[Zerberoff]

3N3RGY, on 11 May 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

please, no one honestly could argue that "sniping" takes less "Skill" than "brawling". You may "hate" sniping but EVEN a new player, with 1 day into mechwarrior can rush with ballistics or LRMS. It takes months if NOT years to attain the accuracy to "snipe" targets from afar and on the move, all while jumping yourself. Especially now with the JJ /reticule shake.

And I'm not going no where and I will adapt, just like I did when they nerfed the heat or Large lasers in MW4 ( I was a 7er LL nova pilot DERP DERP..).

I dont mind Snipers, i love to see good once in my Team that know there business. I dont like those that wish they where snipers and fail badly with a Weapon system, coming into Forum and whine about there lack of adaptability.

[Zervziel]

Mechsniper, on 10 May 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

The inability to brawl with a gauss or to hit any light that has an ounce of skill( you cannot charge a guass quick enough to shoot a light using cover) makes this weapon over gimped done solely because of the qq crowd who thinks there should be no consequences to standing in the open spamming lrms on everyone.

I dunno. In my experience, the morons standing out in the open complain about LRMs more than any other weapon since PPCs and gauss are at least direct line of sight.

[Onmyoudo]

InRev, on 11 May 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

If people behaved on sports teams as they behave in games, they would be universally ostracized.

They really wouldn't. Football players especially are massive, massive d1cks.

Corwin Vickers, on 11 May 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

The game should be a lot harder. We shouldn't be hitting 100% of the time much less the exact location we want to hit.

It's the low skills that are holding this off from being a true thinking man's game.

It's an arcade game because people want it to be an arcade game. If I wanted to play a shooter there are plenty of other better shooters where I can 360 no scope and bunny hop to my hearts content.

Yes, because lasers not shooting where you point them has everything to do with it being a thinking man's game. You think you're gonna be happy if you execute a perfect maneuver and get killed because the game tells you his weapons hit and yours didn't regardless of actual aim? What?

[Corwin Vickers]

I am not in favor of cone of fire, even the cones of fire we currently have. I do think our crosshairs should buck in unison with our mechs feet.
Something predictable and violent.

But if taking a shot took thought rather than twitch skill this would be a different game. "He just took his shot, I'm going to slow down a little and straighten out so I can have a better chance of landing this shot right after my next foot placement when my aim is at the top of it's arc." etc

[Onmyoudo]

Corwin Vickers, on 11 May 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

I am not in favor of cone of fire, even the cones of fire we currently have. I do think our crosshairs should buck in unison with our mechs feet.
Something predictable and violent.

But if taking a shot took thought rather than twitch skill this would be a different game. "He just took his shot, I'm going to slow down a little and straighten out so I can have a better chance of landing this shot right after my next foot placement when my aim is at the top of it's arc." etc

Okay, misunderstood your original quote. So you want recoil/crosshair bob? Doesn't this make it more similar to something like Call of Duty, which already has those systems (I think)?

[Black Ivan]

PGI broke away TT rules long ago, firing rates, armor and heat system. Just to add that all DHS only dissolve 1.4 heat instead of the 2.0 as they should.

[Corwin Vickers]

Onmyoudo, on 12 May 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

Okay, misunderstood your original quote. So you want recoil/crosshair bob? Doesn't this make it more similar to something like Call of Duty, which already has those systems (I think)?

Call of Duty is cone of fire. If you fire a gun your bullet will go somewhere in some imaginary cone, randomly, depending on how long you have been firing or how long you took to aim etc.

I am in favor of a simulation. You fire that gauss and it throws your aim high and left. You know exactly where you shot will go, it will go where your crosshair is, however your crosshair is not staying still.

I want to get rid of pinpoint but not by adding dice rolls. We have the ability to make this a simulation.

[Khobai]

Quote

You can't macro your way around a min range, or a reverse linear damage drop off based on a min range.

Agreed a min range is how gauss shouldve been fixed. A min range wouldve given it a very exploitable weakness, prevented it from being used for brawling, and kept it as one of the best sniper weapons.

[Demuder]

3N3RGY, on 10 May 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

Coming from CS:GO and Battlefield, I find this sad.

Hold on, you mean that PGI actually did something that makes MWO move away from the CS and Battlefield paradigm ? How disastrous to have games with different gameplay !

It's funny how some people blame others players' "qq-ing" and "whining" for any change they don't personally like, while the truth is that if PGI paid even the slightest attention to the forums' suggestions, we now would have a much better game.

Edited by Demuder, 12 May 2014 - 01:30 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

3N3RGY, on 10 May 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

Was using it on my highlanders 1 year ago, it was pretty good.

So they nerfed the jump jets (they shake now), and now the gauss is worthless/garbage (recharge? seroiusly?)


Are there trying to make this game, a no-skill, 100m, in your face brawl at 10kph game?

Only thing the new mechanism did for gauss was make it harder to brawl with. For hide at the back snipers, it added skill to sniping, I'm guessing you liked to only hide and pop tart hence the complaint

Edited by Cathy, 12 May 2014 - 02:43 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Koniving, on 10 May 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

Exploding weapons + XL engines?
Tack in longer barrels (enhancing hitbox sizes and making shots under 60 meters nearly impossible)?
Course, I'd like to see a click to fire followed by a build up on the PPCs for a different mechanic since Gauss got a charge up.

I am good with all but the shots under 60. The Charge time is pretty good at this. as when a target is in close you do have less time to snap off a shot thanks to the present charge discharge time.