42 replies to this topic

[Abisha]

so where is a back mirror, i often walk backwards.
but without visual i walk into a stone and stuff *or wall*
don't tell me in the year 3050 a back view camera was to heavy....

Edited by Egomane, 11 May 2014 - 01:13 AM.

[Tehone]

+

[Thunder Child]

I petitioned for a Rearview Mirror Cockpit item. It was declined. Previous games had it though....

[Adridos]

http://www.crydev.ne...p?f=321&t=93189

[Androas]

In the fictional Battle Tech universe, a neurohelmet is a helmet-like device which the pilot of a battlemech wears in order to provide fine control of balance, as well as containing a display.
The primary function off the neurohelmet is to provide balance information to the battlemech, allowing relatively smooth walking movement, and some degree of recovery in cases of loss of footing. Functionally, this system is attuned to a small number of people (though usually only the primary pilot and his/her assigned technician) and has the ability to identify certain patterns in their brain waves. This allows the neurohelmet to recognize the pilot's reaction to poor balance situations and take automatic action accordingly.
This system also functions as security system for the battlemech. Battlemech security systems use a combination of voice recognition, alpha-wave (brain pattern) recognition, and sometimes an electronic combination lock. When an unauthorized user attempts to start the battlemech, a shock will be administered through the neurohelmet and an alarm will sound.
The display inside the neurohelmet, sometimes referred to as "Circle Vision", has a 360 degree field of view around the battlemech. This is achieved by having two screens, one atop the other. the two screens terminate at the 90 and 180 degree mark. As such, anything directly ahead or behind of the battlemech would be in the center of one of the screens, while objects directly to either side would appear to be split, partially existing on one end of each screen. A similar system is used in battle armor, tanks, and aircraft.
As neurohelmets tend to be heavy, they are supported on either side of the pilot's head by his/her cooling vest. This vest provides padding to prevent chafing. Those neurohelmets manufactured by the Clans tend to be both smaller and lighter.

[Kilo 40]

It should be a rear facing camera that shows up on one of those unused cockpit monitors.

[Caswallon]

Mirror technology is Lostech...

But seriously its likely not here due to the difficulty in mounting rear arc weapons in the current system IMOHO. *Shrug* at least everybody has the same "disadvantage" so its bizarrely fair.

[Onmyoudo]

For those that didn't want to read Adridos' link, short version is Cryengine can't do it.

[Captain Stiffy]

I read all the time about how it's just "not possible" to do certain things in Cryengine.

Why the hell is this boasted as a "good" engine?

[OneEyed Jack]

Captain Stiffy, on 11 May 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

I read all the time about how it's just "not possible" to do certain things in Cryengine.

Why the hell is this boasted as a "good" engine?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess because it is good.... for what it was made for. Unfortunately, what it was made for was pure FPS, which MWO isn't. MWO is a crazy bastardization of FPS, Sim and TT BattleTech that there's probably not a good off-the-shelf engine for.

(Edit for Disclaimer: I'm not really an FPS player, normally, nor an expert on which engines are good for them, so it really is just a guess. Don't go getting you panties in a bundle and jumping all over me about how I know nothing about current FPS engines, because I freely admit I really don't, nor care. The last I did, the Unreal engine was still considered tops.)

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 11 May 2014 - 05:12 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

OneEyed Jack, on 11 May 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess because it is good.... for what it was made for. Unfortunately, what it was made for was pure FPS, which MWO isn't. MWO is a crazy bastardization of FPS, Sim and TT BattleTech that there's probably not a good off-the-shelf engine for.

Source Engine... the original HL2 source engine... in it's graphics test level... had cameras and true reflections.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Didn't you know that rear view is Lostech... it wasn't even found with the Helm memory core... that scrap be long gone.

[Abisha]

oke, if that incredible Engine can't handle that how about a View Port button?.

you know same like Ctrl but then switch to behind the mech.

[Captain Stiffy]

Jade Kitsune, on 11 May 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

Didn't you know that rear view is Lostech... it wasn't even found with the Helm memory core... that scrap be long gone.

In actual BattleTech they have rear mounted weapons.....

Abisha, on 11 May 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

oke, if that incredible Engine can't handle that how about a View Port button?.

you know same like Ctrl but then switch to behind the mech.

They insisted on 3rd person even though it's not very useful and I bet almost anything they would definitely not give us rear-view.

[Peter2k]

Caswallon, on 11 May 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

Mirror technology is Lostech...

But seriously its likely not here due to the difficulty in mounting rear arc weapons in the current system IMOHO. *Shrug* at least everybody has the same "disadvantage" so its bizarrely fair.

No

It's not in because the engine has trouble handling it, just like advanced zoom was a pixelated mess once, because the engine rendered 2 screens at the same time
Took a year and a half or so to figure out
PGI said that it would cut performance practically by half at the time

And rear view would be good for fatlases, and you have plenty of unused screens anyway

But yeah, everyone does have the same disadvantage

On a side note:
Star Citizen uses cry engine as well
Gotta look out how that games coders can handle the engine, wait and see

I just thought that cry engine can do loads of stuff, but you have to know what you're doing (good coders/programmers); at the time it was cheap or free?
While the unreal engine for instance has the best editor, like building pretty maps fast n stuff (well in comparison)
Too bad it wasn't available at the time for the price it is now, next to nothing upfront and asking for royalties

[Bishop Steiner]

Captain Stiffy, on 11 May 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

I read all the time about how it's just "not possible" to do certain things in Cryengine.

Why the hell is this boasted as a "good" engine?

because it does a lot of things well. What it doesn't do well is multiperspective /PoV processing, in part because it is already such an intense resource hog. It was designed to give really pretty graphics to single perspective FPS type games, not handle the multiple fields of view and such for mechanical combat.

So essentially, PGI (shockingly, right?) did not really do their homework when they went engine shopping and it was too far into development when they figured it out. If you saw how much time and money the sainted Chris Roberts has apparently had to sink into getting cryengine rewritten (at least he actually has the crymonkeys doing it), it's pretty laughable.

Peter2k, on 11 May 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

On a side note:
Star Citizen uses cry engine as well
Gotta look out how that games coders can handle the engine, wait and see

Plenty of issues, but well, 50 million dollars and actual CryEngine support techs go a long way. Even so, I am curious if they will find a way to render a rear view.

I always wondered why they couldn't just make a "virtual" one essentially, but admit I am closer to ComStar than not in that half the time a prayer and a kick is the best option I have for making tech work, lol.

[Strum Wealh]

Abisha, on 11 May 2014 - 01:11 AM, said:

so where is a back mirror, i often walk backwards.
but without visual i walk into a stone and stuff *or wall*
don't tell me in the year 3050 a back view camera was to heavy....

Abisha, on 11 May 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

oke, if that incredible Engine can't handle that how about a View Port button?.

you know same like Ctrl but then switch to behind the mech.

As Adridos posted, the issue is that CryEngine 3 has minimal support for reflective surfaces, and can't do mirrors in the style being requested by the OP at all; "Screenspace reflections cannot reflect anything outside the screenspace".

Moreover, CE3 doesn't do multiple viewports (as would be the case if a feed from a rear-view camera were being shown on an in-cockpit monitor) by default, and even trying to work around it evidently doesn't work well enough to be useful.
Here are two threads about CryEngine3's "multiple viewports" problems from Crydev.net, if you're interested in the technical details:
1.) "How to add a rear view mirror window to my CE3 racing game?"
2.) "Problems with Multiple Viewports/Splitscreen/IRender"

(I'm already aware that I've been "ninja'd", but I spent enough time hunting down the other links that I'm not going to just throw the post away... )

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 11 May 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

As Adridos posted, the issue is that CryEngine 3 has minimal support for reflective surfaces, and can't do mirrors in the style being requested by the OP at all; "Screenspace reflections cannot reflect anything outside the screenspace".

Moreover, CE3 doesn't do multiple viewports (as would be the case if a feed from a rear-view camera were being shown on an in-cockpit monitor) by default, and even trying to work around it evidently doesn't work well enough to be useful.
Here are two threads about CryEngine3's "multiple viewports" problems from Crydev.net, if you're interested in the technical details:
1.) "How to add a rear view mirror window to my CE3 racing game?"
2.) "Problems with Multiple Viewports/Splitscreen/IRender"

(I'm already aware that I've been "ninja'd", but I spent enough time hunting down the other links that I'm not going to just throw the post away... )

sources and facts are never a waste. better than the ad hominem reasoning in most threads.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

As stated, there are Mech's in MWO that indeed do have weapons that faced rearward.
PGI moved any rear facing weapon to front facing, and actually corrupted some of the builds, as that weapon was designed specifically for those Mech's. Mech's that needed a rear weapon to dissuade chasing or pursuing opponents.

PGI could create a rear view by changing the current front facing view to rear with the 'press of a key' function. You don't need to display both, if your backing up you only need that view 'right now'. There will be those that have difficulty driving in reverse, as the controls are indeed reversed. But PGI could also build in a settings check box to 'flip' the steering controls for those that need it. (similar to the axis changes we have for joystick controls)
- the rear facing weapons would be quite a bit more difficult to accomplish,
- and require a re-design of some Mech's, not cheap by any means.
- the use of a 'on while held' key may work for the sighting of those rear facing weapons, but controlling reversed aiming may be too much for some Pilots. And the fact you can't see where your currently running/walking.
(some Pilots have a hard enough time driving there Mech's as it is.)

I would be assuming that for PGI, the small benefit of viewing to the rear, it was deemed to expensive and time consuming at the start of this franchise. Possibly after we have more or most of the content designed and implemented they can revisit this functionality. On a plus here, they are working with oculus riff and head tracking companies to bring that functionality into MWO. Perhaps that will lead to abilities for rear facing views?

9erRed

[Captain Stiffy]

except they never ever do what we want

if a dev actually reads this and responds I will give them bitcoins

it won't ****** happen