238 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

wanderer, on 12 May 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

You said brawling with SRMs on mediums was inefficient. There's the screens to show you're wrong- those are all ML/SRM 55-ton medium brawlers with 18+ SRMs per 'Mech.

If they fix SRMs you might have a point, but while they are better than pulse lasers, they are still a pretty poor weapon system. You'd be better off with an AC and lasers.

And while I've enjoyed running a 22 tube SHD, it's simply not an effective build. You can run through 700 SRMs and still get lackluster results because of the hitreg.

[Tesunie]

Ashvins, on 12 May 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

Regardless of TAG NARC and Artemis LRM's are broken atm. 3 times in my last match I watched LRM's fly through terrain and hit me and others and do damage. I wish I was recording the match because it would have been undeniable proof LRM's are BROKEN.

PGI Please fix LRM's they are Broken and I will record every match til I get the proof for you. Most likely it collision detection with terrain that's messed up. I've seen direct fire weapons do the same thing.

If weapons fire of any kind is going through terrain, it sounds like a terrain bug. Not an issue with LRMs specifically. (Funny, I've had my LRMs get blocked by thin air in some games, as it collided with invisible terrain... or not even register damage against an open target even, occasionally...)

As for your second paragraph, if you've seen it with direct fire weapons, then it's not the LRMs that are broken...

wanderer, on 12 May 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

That's going to be fun when 3/3/3/3 is up, eh? 55-tonners get more speed for the engine rating (and hence take less tonnage to get that speed), meaning the SHD (or Griffin) gets to grips faster and with more mobility than the Quickdraw. Catapults can match the firepower, but can't match the mobility and have huge missilebox targets to cripple that firepower easily.

Note that in most of those games, the medium not only excelled, it lived through the entire fight to boot.

I actually have discovered I am more efficient with my Griffin than with my Stalker when I go for damage per ton... Medium mechs are still very much thriving. Though I don't use SRMs... so I don't know if that counts for your statement. (Though I would also like to say I don't fire only indirectly and hide. I seek out targets and try to engage within 270-180m ranges for maximum effect.)

[Gas Guzzler]

Some guy has a good game with LRMs, claims they are officially easy mode, starts a thread about it, and it reaches 11 pages long?????

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 May 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Some guy has a good game with LRMs, claims they are officially easy mode, starts a thread about it, and it reaches 11 pages long?????

Every LRM thread ends up being at a minimum 10 pages long because this is how it goes.

Thread Starts

2-3 people post about how LRMs are no skill.

Veterans of the game see thread and start posting because we are so damn tired of the current FLD meta and don't want to see LRMs be COMPLETELY useless again (they are mediocre at best right now).

Thread continues as the veterans try to explain how to counter LRMs and how to use them properly, while the players who dislike LRMs just basically whine.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 12 May 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 12 May 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Every LRM thread ends up being at a minimum 10 pages long because this is how it goes.

Thread Starts

2-3 people post about how LRMs are no skill.

Veterans of the game see thread and start posting because we are so damn tired of the current FLD meta and don't want to see LRMs be COMPLETELY useless again (they are mediocre at best right now).

Thread continues as the veterans try to explain how to counter LRMs and how to use them properly, while the players who dislike LRMs just basically whine.

Unlike most of you all, I am pro-LRM AND pro-FLD meta.

I AM the cure.

I am mainly anti-nerfgun. That weapon is OP.

In general LRMs are good when its not you vs one other person. IF you are in that situation then direct-fire in general will be better because you don't have to stare at the target the whole time. I mean that is just common sense.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 May 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 May 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Unlike most of you all, I am pro-LRM AND pro-FLD meta.

I AM the cure.

I am mainly anti-nerfgun. That weapon is OP.

What about the spread weapons? Think of the Wub and the Pew and the SRMs! The LB10x and....well no one really cares about the flamer.

Edited by Mcgral18, 12 May 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 12 May 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

What about the spread weapons? Think of the Wub and the Pew and the SRMs! The LB10x and....well no one really cares about the flamer.

Yeah I'm pro those too... SRM fix will be great, I just want brawling weapons to be better then meta weapons below 270m so people stop demanding that FLD weapons like PPCs suck.

[oldradagast]

Aeten, on 11 May 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

Well I can't say I didn't expect the snarky troll comments that ignore the real problem, but if you are going to open your mouth you should at least reference the idea in the thread.

The fact is with LRMs and no other weapon system, I can sit in base semi-AFK and just accumulate damage like a sponge. How is this FPS-style gameplay? This is arcade.

Things an LRM mech generally doesn't need to worry about:

- Heat (if set up by someone with any semblence of intelligence)
- Damage
- Aiming
- Positioning
- Poptarts / alpha strikes

Yet all other mechs do. It's just dumb the way it's set up.

And it was 3 tons of ammo I'm sorry for the typo. I forgot the space in the head I only counted the 2 tons in my center torso.

Nobody agrees with what you're posting because it's not really accurate.

You got a whole bunch of damage - though no kills - by standing in the back taking shots of opportunity. Obviously, nobody approached you or even challenged you directly in the fight or you'd have mentioned it and probably have gotten your tail kicked since your non-LRM firepower is comparable to a light mech.

So, all that's been proven is that if you keep away from the battle and are left alone, you can do a decent amount of damage easily. That's true of any weapon with decent range - I could probably with some effort "prove" that Large Pulse Lasers are broken in the same way if I'm just allowed to sit there and poke somebody with them over and over.

LRM's are fine. They trade off the need for complete line of sight and direct aiming for the delay needed to get a lock, the need to hold a lock, and the various countermeasures that completely hose them. They are playable, but not top-tier as far as I know, so there's no point in worrying about them.

[Reitrix]

Mcgral18, on 12 May 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

What about the spread weapons? Think of the Wub and the Pew and the SRMs! The LB10x and....well no one really cares about the flamer.

How now! you leave the LbX-10 outta this! ... I was looking for a dakka build i could throw into my old DRG-5N, ended up with 2x AC2 and an LBX-10 with 2 MLs, it's surprisingly effective. Out of the 6 games i played on it, i scored an average of 2 kills and 300 - 450 damage with assists varying based on win/loss. I'm quite attached to it now ._.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 12 May 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

...and....well no one really cares about the flamer.

I do.

[Almond Brown]

Hehe, had another HB, with the OP's alternate load-out shown up, gotten inside his newly found 180m Death Zone, I wonder how the resulting Post would have sounded. Situational posting FTL LOL!

[Barkem Squirrel]

Foxfire, on 11 May 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

The problem is that we have LRM's that aren't around until 3057.

http://www.sarna.net...Semi-Guided_LRM

This is where the C3 systems should be in the game to allow for targeted indirect fire. We have this system free right now. LRMs are dangerous as indirect, but NARC allowed for this before 3057 along with C3 systems.


11 pages of rage. Quite a bit on how well one person hits with lasers at 22% and other weapons at 40 to 60 ping. I would ask what are his frames per second? Below 10 maybe.

How easy is it to hit with LRMs when factoring in ECM, mechs running behind buildings and hills for cover and making those long indirect shots where the spotter stops spotting.

You will have some matches where you get steam rolled due to multiple ECM's and all of them stay in this cover. they happen and we know this.

You will have matches where some good PPC or AC players keep your head down and you are just using target decay to guide the LRMs in or relying on spotters.


Then the matches where you are able to target and guide the LRMs in. A select few I have done more damage than the number of LRMs fired, but mainly due to also firing LL's and ML's. (this is very rare and you have to be less than 300 m away.) There are also times where you find that DDC out in the open with no cover and TAG him or that light with BAP starts working him over while you LRM him.

The great benefit with LRMs is while your buddies are shooting someone up, you can lob missiles over them to hit him. Or you get that one mech running around all on his own and teach him a lesson of why people rage on LRMs.

Maps that are great for LRMs
Alpine
Caustic Valley

Maps that have areas great for LRMs
Forest Colony
Forest Colony Snow
Trimoline desert
terra therma

maps that are situational for LRMs
River city
River city night
frozen colony
Frozen colony night

If you hit more than 50% of the missiles in a match, you have done some good damage. Doing about 350 damage with only 540 missiles is doable. 350/ (540 x1.1) 350/594 = 58.9% hit rate if all missiles were fired.

[Alex Warden]

Jade Kitsune, on 11 May 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

LRM's need to be line of sight, unless aided by TAG/NARC... though I could see enabling a mech equipped with BAP to also give targeting info... that would be a bit of a stretch.


Regardless, as the system sits right now. LRM's are something of easy mode, and offer more reward for less risk.

i suggested exactly this like 5 times now, in various threads and twice in feature suggestions... it would be more true to the LRM mechanics i know, at least within the MWO mechanics... LRMs aren´t meant to be "backland hiding artillery", they´re supposed to be direct fire weapons first of all... well, ya know, i gave up suggesting things, PGI seems to know what´s best for their game anyway...

Edited by Alex Warden, 12 May 2014 - 12:02 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Alex Warden, on 12 May 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

i suggested exactly this like 5 times now, in various threads and twice in feature suggestions... it would be more true to the LRM mechanics i know, at least within the MWO mechanics... LRMs aren´t meant to be "backland hiding artillery", they´re supposed to be direct fire weapons first of all... well, ya know, i gave up suggesting things, PGI seems to know what´s best for their game anyway...

Make ECM work like it does in TT (Generally speaking) and I'd be fine with that change.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

LRMs are only easy mode if the MM decided to **** your day and give you team with 4 people running LRM40+

I rage all to hell when that happen but is very luck of the draw. My Cicada 2A champion can make quick work of singular LRM boats especially I they islolate themselves.

I can play Toumaline or Crimson Strait in my cicada without ever getting hit once by LRMs, I dont even use AMS.

[poopenshire]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 May 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

I liked to use it as a laser pointer on my gauss, too, lol.

This is what I did with a spotter on my teammates:

1 spotter
2 LRM boats
1 Hunter




Worked out well for us.

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

MrZakalwe, on 11 May 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

Jump snipe against LRM users- they never keep a lock and you spend nearly your whole time behind cover.

LRMs are only useful against people just playing to have fun in pug games- if you tryhard they are useless.

THIS ^ Poptarts are lrms mortal enemy. By the time you get a lock they are safely in cover and your missiles harmlessly impact terrain while you take 30-40 dmg. Teammates are not able to maintain locks in poptart vs poptart. Also ecm stacking renders all lrms on your team useless. Lrms are not pinpoint and ton for ton worth less than a meta/sniper when it comes to damage. You spread they don't and poptarting is easy. Getting into positions where you are not going to be obliterated while also dishing out dmg is the challenge of lrm boating. Team locks are unreliable and ammo is a huge concern. hill to hill vs a meta poptart they will trade you all day for your spread dmg if you even have lock enough to hit.

OneEyed Jack, on 11 May 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

Unless, of course, you make the gross miscalculation of playing against people that are actually awake. Shooting at scrubs that would just ignore you, don't carry AMS and refuse to use cover, doesn't prove anything.

^ Also stacked ecm or just any ecm on the other team at all that knows what they are doing. See how quick you lose lock on a tagged mech after you lose los with an ecm mech around. Chances are if they can point and click you take dmg but you will not return any.

[General Taskeen]

Guided LRM's (the 3057 kind) actually implies missiles that don't require a 'Mech to even be targeting something in LOS or not in LOS.

which look like this and require a TAG laser to guide the missiles:



Literally dumb-fired missiles that are guided by TAG, which is why semi-guided LRM's were made for TAG. LRM's canonically could already do this with NARC and dumb-fired "narc capable" lrm missiles in BT.

That's definitely not how LRM's work in MWO, since you have to be constantly targeting in MWO.

MWO lrm's definitely go for a more 'arcadey'-less complicated approach, since there is no active/passive radar, and allows targeting through terrain (which is very different than the simmy approach to LRM's from previous MW titles).

[Bishop Steiner]

poopenshire, on 12 May 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

This is what I did with a spotter on my teammates:

1 spotter
2 LRM boats
1 Hunter




Worked out well for us.

x2 XP on first win of the day on x2XP Weekened, plus Premium Time makes for such a pretty end of match screen.

[WarZ]

Peter2k, on 11 May 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

And still people tell you that using LRM's needs more skill than any other kind of weapon ingame

Just you wait, those post coming in 3,2,1 ...

On a serious note, I upgraded my LRM's from 2 lrm 5's to 2 LRM 10's on my heavy metal, making good support weapons until I can come up close to my target, or until I have a clear line of fire

Looking at you fatlas, walking in front of my crosshairs at the worst time possible :-)

You cannot say there is skill in LRM's. It's simply awareness. Just firing them when you have good opportunity shots. Not firing them into cover, not firing them at a barely spotted fast moving target. No skill, just awareness.

Doing well with them is more a matter of the team you are on. If you are on a team that will engage, then you are golden and can fire madly as there will be lots of targets sighted. You get on a weak team that falls back or breaks engagement too quickly and you dont get much. Of course that being said if you are on a team that engages, LRM's are insanely powerful atm.