75 replies to this topic

[Madw0lf]

This is one of those times I really wish PGI could/would release more information, like player numbers, Elo scores etc. cause see, I dont see any real balance problems. I rarely see 12-0 stomps. 12-2 or so slightly more often, but its rare the losing team has fewer than 6 or 7 people left. I dont typically go through long (10+ game) losing streaks.

The MM does try to match Elos as close as possible, its just allowed to open up to 1400 to make a match if need be. So maybe my Elo isnt high enough? But where am I? If I am around the average, and the actual average player has matches like I seem to experience, then I would say the game is balanced fine. Statistical outliers are always going to have more problems than the average.

Thinking I should do some semi-scientific work to verify my thoughts on my experiences...

[Rex Budman]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON na

[mogs01gt]

Malakie, on 14 May 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Just wondering if there is any kind of time frame to balance things out? Getting tired of seeing battles where the end game is 12-0, i.e. one side all living the other all dead. Also tired of being hit by lights that are packing as much firepower easily with no heat issues as medium and some heavies AND able to run circles around them..

While lights should have a speed advantage, they should NOT be able to take down heavy mechs, especially assault mechs, in a matter of seconds.. and this happens frequently.

I have been in the Battletech world since 1989 when I was part of the team that contributed to the development and building of the very first Battletech Center in Chicago. Also having helped in coding another Battletech game on the Commodore Amiga, I have a good idea and the experience to see things not quite where they should be in this online iteration and based on that, things are in need of some balance and such, thus my question on a time frame....

Curious too... how many reading this have been involved in Battletech since the early days? Or are most of you a new generation?

The light balancing issues are huge. They pack way too much firepower for all the speed they have and their artificial durability is game changing.

Edited by mogs01gt, 15 May 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[Flaming oblivion]

mogs01gt, on 15 May 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

The light balancing issues are huge. They pack way too much firepower for all the speed they have and their artificial durability is game changing.

Yup I had the fun old time of spectating a atlas get torn apart by 2 spiders. TORN APART. I felt sorry for him **** all he could do they just stayed behind him he couldn't hit them often enough to put up a fight , It was a slaughter. If they don't get a handle on matchmaking and balance over all soon , we will have to start charity fundraising to feed the developers in years to come.

[Rex Budman]

Flaming oblivion, on 15 May 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

Yup I had the fun old time of spectating a atlas get torn apart by 2 spiders. TORN APART. I felt sorry for him **** all he could do they just stayed behind him he couldn't hit them often enough to put up a fight , It was a slaughter. If they don't get a handle on matchmaking and balance over all soon , we will have to start charity fundraising to feed the developers in years to come.

free blanket?

[Madw0lf]

Flaming oblivion, on 15 May 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

Yup I had the fun old time of spectating a atlas get torn apart by 2 spiders. TORN APART. I felt sorry for him **** all he could do they just stayed behind him he couldn't hit them often enough to put up a fight , It was a slaughter. If they don't get a handle on matchmaking and balance over all soon , we will have to start charity fundraising to feed the developers in years to come.

Where were his teammates? Couldnt he back against a wall to keep them from his rear? Change up his maneuvering? Sounds to me more like he was just outplayed as opposed to lights being "OP"

[mogs01gt]

Madw0lf, on 15 May 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Where were his teammates?

why does it matter? his teammates could be dead and it was 2v1 but two lights shouldnt be able to take out an Assault.

Quote

Couldnt he back against a wall to keep them from his rear?

There isnt always a wall around

Quote

Change up his maneuvering?

are you serious? The scenario was a ******* Atlas not a Victor..

Quote

Sounds to me more like he was just outplayed as opposed to lights being "OP"

Do you even play MWO?

Edited by mogs01gt, 15 May 2014 - 05:40 AM.

[Rex Budman]

mogs01gt, on 15 May 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

why does it matter? his teammates could be dead and it was 2v1 but two lights shouldnt be able to take out an Assault.

There isnt always a wall around

are you serious? The scenario was a ******* Atlas not a Victor..

Do you even play MWO?

Lol there are so many Captain Hindsights around these days.

[Madw0lf]

mogs01gt, on 15 May 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

why does it matter? his teammates could be dead and it was 2v1 but two lights shouldnt be able to take out an Assault.

There isnt always a wall around

are you serious? The scenario was a ******* Atlas not a Victor..

Do you even play MWO?

Assuming they were all fresh, why shouldnt 2 lights be able to take out 1 assault? 60 tons vs 100, so 1 Dragon Vs 1 Atlas, the Atlas will probly win but will be ripped apart. So having TWO targets totaling 60 tons? It makes sense to me.

There is usually a wall somewhere near by, but yes you cant always get to one.

Atlas or not, there are plenty of ways to keep even a Spider in your crosshairs longer. Even better if the assault pilot is good.

Yes I do play MWO, almost every night. Granted I dont pilot anything bigger than a BLR, I still dont feel lights are a problem considering how quickly you can end them when you line up on em.

Rex Budman, on 15 May 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

Lol there are so many Captain Hindsights around these days.

Are you referring to me or mogs?

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Malakie, on 14 May 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Just wondering if there is any kind of time frame to balance things out?

Do you mean a time of day to play during? I find that from 4pm - 10pm EST (UTC-5:00) I see much less meta/premade/whatever kills you. There may be other time frames as well.

Edited by Rouken, 15 May 2014 - 05:56 AM.

[sokitumi]

Lights can be a problem in this game because of the choice to make lasers hitscan, ballistics on the other hand are impeded by the choice to make every bullet/round server authenticated so that's a gamble per shot divided by shot lead luck, and the missiles being even worse than ballistics as far as hit detection (srm's) or just useless vs lights (lrms). Other than the weapons themselves, the choice to make radar function like it does in this game certainly benefits faster mechs.

So while balance is certainly an issue, the problem really springs from a much deeper well of curious choices combined with poor implementation.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this game to be balanced or at least as balanced, or balanced like, previous mechwarriors.

[mogs01gt]

Madw0lf, on 15 May 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

Assuming they were all fresh, why shouldnt 2 lights be able to take out 1 assault? 60 tons vs 100, so 1 Dragon Vs 1 Atlas, the Atlas will probly win but will be ripped apart. So having TWO targets totaling 60 tons? It makes sense to me.

Because lights shouldnt have their artificial durability that has been created by PGI.

2x30t lights =/= 60t Dragon

Edited by mogs01gt, 15 May 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

mogs01gt, on 15 May 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

why does it matter? his teammates could be dead and it was 2v1 but two lights shouldnt be able to take out an Assault.

There isnt always a wall around

are you serious? The scenario was a ******* Atlas not a Victor..

Do you even play MWO?

Does player skill even matter anymore? I doubt he had a situation where he had no options.

[Madw0lf]

sokitumi, on 15 May 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this game to be balanced or at least as balanced, or balanced like, previous mechwarriors.

Because MW4 atleast was so very well balanced...

Mogs, how was their durability increased? And I apologize, I didnt mean to say they were exacty equal, but having more than one on attack can sure make a big difference, as it should.

[mogs01gt]

BLOOD WOLF, on 15 May 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Does player skill even matter anymore? I doubt he had a situation where he had no options.

LoL I can play this game to....

Does proper balancing not matter anymore? I doubt that there are situations with options..

Madw0lf, on 15 May 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

Mogs, how was their durability increased? And I apologize, I didnt mean to say they were exacty equal, but having more than one on attack can sure make a big difference, as it should.

If you actually play this game, how do you not know about the issues with Lights?

Edited by mogs01gt, 15 May 2014 - 06:22 AM.

[Madw0lf]

mogs01gt, on 15 May 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

LoL I can play this game to....

Does proper balancing not matter anymore? I doubt that there are situations with options..


If you actually play this game, how do you not know about light issues?

Not everyone is seeing balance issues, or atleast not the same ones.

I see myself getting killed pretty easily in my Locusts if I get too near an enemy...I was asking though for what, specifically, you feel PGI did that has lights so out of balance right now?

[mogs01gt]

Madw0lf, on 15 May 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

I see myself getting killed pretty easily in my Locusts if I get too near an enemy...I was asking though for what, specifically, you feel PGI did that has lights so out of balance right now?

So you are a light pilot, ignorance is bliss I see..

Balancing issues:
hit registration
scaling
heat management
ECM cloak

Edited by mogs01gt, 15 May 2014 - 06:30 AM.

[Madw0lf]

mogs01gt, on 15 May 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

So you are a light pilot, ignorance is bliss I see..

Balancing issues:
hit registration
scaling
heat management
ECM cloak

Actually the Locusts are the only lights I own (And BLRs the only assaults I own), and I barely pilot them. I am a medium/heavy pilot
Hit reg affects all 'Mechs, though I will agree lights small size (your scaling) and speed do make it harder. Could you define your heat management issue? and ECM is hardly a lights-only thing, and is really only a problem for locking weapons (LRMs and SSRMs)

[Widowmaker1981]

as untold people have tried to explain in the past.. 12-0 or 12-1 is something that is very likely to happen in no re-spawn 12v12 games, especially with the long (for a FPS) TTK that we have. i've seen plenty of games end in total 12-3 or better stomps that seemed to be quite finely balanced for the first 5 or 6 mins. then 1 mech dies, and there are less targets for people to choose between = more focus, and less incoming firepower. so another dies even faster, it snowballs from there (and quite often in those stops you will find that most of the winning team are badly mangled. just not quite dead)

yes, there should be something that separates total noobs from veterans 100% (imo there should be a character lvl based on total XP, and you only play vs your lvl +/-... that wont guarantee skilled players, but it will at least guarantee that if you suck and you are playing vs veterans.. its your fault you suck cos you've had plenty of time to learn) .. but it WILL NOT STOP 12-0s. NOTHING WILL. EVER.

Imo balance is actually pretty good at the moment. the only issue i see (well, not see as i assume its only really an issue in 12 mans which i don't play - really doesn't affect my PUG play much at all) is Jump sniping is an annoying tactic that makes for static games. i DON'T see anything wrong with the weapons themselves.. just extend JJ screenshake until people hit the ground. simples, no more jump sniping. The talk of making PPCs arc dmg all over the target - ok. why would anyone ever take a PPC over an ER large laser if they did that?
9 dmg 8.5 heat 675 range for 5 tons, 2 crits,
VS
10 dmg 10 heat 540 range for 7 tons, 3 crits.

at the moment its a trade off between getting all your damage on one spot, every time, and less weight/heat/crits + more range and no need to lead - if they make it so the laser is actually BETTER at concentrating damage.. why on earth take the PPC?

[Madw0lf]

Widowmaker1981, on 15 May 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

as untold people have tried to explain in the past.. 12-0 or 12-1 is something that is very likely to happen in no re-spawn 12v12 games, especially with the long (for a FPS) TTK that we have. i've seen plenty of games end in total 12-3 or better stomps that seemed to be quite finely balanced for the first 5 or 6 mins. then 1 mech dies, and there are less targets for people to choose between = more focus, and less incoming firepower. so another dies even faster, it snowballs from there (and quite often in those stops you will find that most of the winning team are badly mangled. just not quite dead)

yes, there should be something that separates total noobs from veterans 100% (imo there should be a character lvl based on total XP, and you only play vs your lvl +/-... that wont guarantee skilled players, but it will at least guarantee that if you suck and you are playing vs veterans.. its your fault you suck cos you've had plenty of time to learn) .. but it WILL NOT STOP 12-0s. NOTHING WILL. EVER.

Imo balance is actually pretty good at the moment. the only issue i see (well, not see as i assume its only really an issue in 12 mans which i don't play - really doesn't affect my PUG play much at all) is Jump sniping is an annoying tactic that makes for static games. i DON'T see anything wrong with the weapons themselves.. just extend JJ screenshake until people hit the ground. simples, no more jump sniping. The talk of making PPCs arc dmg all over the target - ok. why would anyone ever take a PPC over an ER large laser if they did that?
9 dmg 8.5 heat 675 range for 5 tons, 2 crits,
VS
10 dmg 10 heat 540 range for 7 tons, 3 crits.

at the moment its a trade off between getting all your damage on one spot, every time, and less weight/heat/crits + more range and no need to lead - if they make it so the laser is actually BETTER at concentrating damage.. why on earth take the PPC?

This guy gets it.