75 replies to this topic

[Malakie]

Adiuvo, on 15 May 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

snip

This is the first Mechwarrior game where lights are not completely hung out to dry in the combat area. All classes have viable mechs in them. The optimal playstyles between the classes are incredibly different. Assaults need to have some kind of weakness and that weakness, currently, is them being alone. Even this still needs adjustments considering how agile they are. You can't give one mech class all the armor, all the weapons, and all the agility. Since this game has zero respawns there needs to be a reason to bring a light mech from the get go and PGI, barring a few balance problems, has obtained that goal.

Ok first to clarify, my mechs are not standard. They are modified for different purposes depending on what I plan to do.

And while you comments are all well and good, in making them you forgot something.. As I stated, there are those of us who have EXPERIENCED and SEEN light mechs take down heavier mechs in seconds. By stating that cannot happen you are ignoring that entire fact. And I personally have seen it quite a few times. Almost like they somehow have become invulnerable to hits yet do full damage to the other mech.

And keep in mind, in many cases it was NOT my Battlemech that was being hit but someone else's where I watched a light literally tear apart an Atlas in seconds.

Your numbers you came up with all work for perfect situations, perfect scenario's and load outs and make a number of assumptions. By doing that you invalidate any actual data based on experiences by players and the videos you can see. I am not going to sit here and figure out math, exact hit ratios, and timing because there is no way to accurately figure that out based on two different players, the mechs they used and their skill sets.

Finally, the ODDS of so many games ending up at 0 kills to 12 kills is just not supported unless everyone on the other team is such a newbie OR just standing there that the other team has open season. I have been in more than one game where this has happened... and I can tell you from MY experience that in one of those games I pounded on a mech over and over using a Founders Atlas that I upgraded only to get taken down very quickly even though I hit him with a decent shot ratio over and over with heavy weapons.

I am willing to concede that it might not be a balance issue and that it could be some kind of problem that crops up if the data stream is interrupted in a game thus making hits to a mech suddenly ineffective for one side. THAT in itself would explain both anomalies as well.

All I can say is that I have seen this problem occur more than 3 times which tells me something is either badly in need of re-balance OR something else is happening that somehow causes one team to have an advantage over the other in damage or some other aspect allowing them to pretty much run over any and all mechs the other team fronts.

[El Bandito]

PGI is currently doing a bad job at implementing role warfare, especially for Lights. Therefore, Lights must remain lethal, otherwise no one will pick them.

Once spotting, NARCing, TAGing, UAV, capturing etc...gets better rewarded, then the lethality of Lights can be nerfed.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 May 2014 - 02:22 AM.

[GrandLocomon]

FupDup, on 14 May 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

Judging by the current rate of things, I'd guess it to be anywhere between Soon™ and lolno.

This is quite possibly the best post I've ever seen, made me actually LOL. So, so true. The best part is, this can be applied to any feature to be implemented in MWO.

[Redshift2k5]

You don't want 12:0 matches? Learn to teamwork.

[Rose Scented Love Puff]

Alexandrix, on 14 May 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

Mr. Phule pretty much said everything I would say,only better than I could say it.

I would add though,Don't play MWO expecting an actual battletech game.This isn't battletech.It's a Counterstrike/Call of duty-esque arcade shooter with BT mech skins.

I don't know if PGI has intentionally went this route in a silly attempt to try and draw in the CoD gamers of today (LOL ESPORT) or if they just actually don't have a clue what they are doing.Considering the game is basically just a big mish mash of terrible,half assed band aid fixes over top of a broken foundation,i'd probably go with the latter.

Agreed. I myself am in a guild or whatever you want to call it and one thing we are looking at, ( using a private lobby ) is building lore friendly, stock loadouts from Battletech and using those. Could be fun

[Shae Starfyre]

Nothing can be balanced until they bring in the Clan Mechs; until then, it is all moot.

[Tombstoner]

Started in 1984 with battledroids and the balance is fine according to PGI.

[Flaming oblivion]

Tombstoner, on 16 May 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

Started in 1984 with battledroids and the balance is fine according to PGI.

Then I suggest PGI play the game for 4-5 hours of a day and post how many of them got past hour 1 without rage quitting.

[Lostdragon]

Malakie, on 16 May 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

Ok first to clarify, my mechs are not standard. They are modified for different purposes depending on what I plan to do.

And while you comments are all well and good, in making them you forgot something.. As I stated, there are those of us who have EXPERIENCED and SEEN light mechs take down heavier mechs in seconds. By stating that cannot happen you are ignoring that entire fact. And I personally have seen it quite a few times. Almost like they somehow have become invulnerable to hits yet do full damage to the other mech.

And keep in mind, in many cases it was NOT my Battlemech that was being hit but someone else's where I watched a light literally tear apart an Atlas in seconds.

Your numbers you came up with all work for perfect situations, perfect scenario's and load outs and make a number of assumptions. By doing that you invalidate any actual data based on experiences by players and the videos you can see. I am not going to sit here and figure out math, exact hit ratios, and timing because there is no way to accurately figure that out based on two different players, the mechs they used and their skill sets.

Finally, the ODDS of so many games ending up at 0 kills to 12 kills is just not supported unless everyone on the other team is such a newbie OR just standing there that the other team has open season. I have been in more than one game where this has happened... and I can tell you from MY experience that in one of those games I pounded on a mech over and over using a Founders Atlas that I upgraded only to get taken down very quickly even though I hit him with a decent shot ratio over and over with heavy weapons.

I am willing to concede that it might not be a balance issue and that it could be some kind of problem that crops up if the data stream is interrupted in a game thus making hits to a mech suddenly ineffective for one side. THAT in itself would explain both anomalies as well.

All I can say is that I have seen this problem occur more than 3 times which tells me something is either badly in need of re-balance OR something else is happening that somehow causes one team to have an advantage over the other in damage or some other aspect allowing them to pretty much run over any and all mechs the other team fronts.

My guess is two things are happening: first, the assault pilots you are observing are not very good and are getting outplayed. Second, there may be some HSR wonkiness. Both are easy to spot. Next time you see something like this note the pings of both players. Observe the assault pilot's behavior. Does he reverse when being circled? Does he put his back to a wall? Does he torso twist to spread damage?

Assault mechs have the advantage over lights. Period. In order for an assault to be taken down singlehandedly by a light mech the pilot has to make multiple mistakes. Even the most powerful lights cannot core out an assault in one or two hits, but most assaults can cripple or kill a light with one well placed alpha strike. All it takes is one mistake and the light pilot is done.

[Madw0lf]

Flaming oblivion, on 16 May 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Then I suggest PGI play the game for 4-5 hours of a day and post how many of them got past hour 1 without rage quitting.

If thats the bar by which were judging balance, then I definitely have to say its perfect. In the year and a half Ive been playing Ive "ragequit" (Its barely even worth calling it that..) maybe 6-10 times.....

[Mister Blastman]

Malakie, on 16 May 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

/snip

Sorry. Adiuvo is literally one of the top three light players in the game. You can't even begin to comprehend how he sees things. Just walk away and pretend you never said anything.

He KNOWS what he is talking about.

[Malakie]

Ok just finished a number of games... I laughed at some of the new replies here because apparently many ASSUME I was on the LOSING end of all these 0-12 games I talked about.. Well WRONG. In fact I just finished a few and two of those were 12-0 games and I was on the WINNING side both times...

And yet... I maintain exactly what I said before. The last 12-0 game I just had was ridiculous. I was in a medium mech. I got hit every where I turned by a number of mechs. At one point I was under active fire of two Assaults, a heavy and 2 mediums. Not only did I easily survive, my armor damage was minimal AND I held out until other members on MY team showed up to assist at which point we tanked them all within a minute or so...

So, here I am in a medium mech being mauled by 5 mechs for a good minute yet I survive that with nary any damage and then when some other team mates show we proceed to just tear them apart...

And some of you do not think there is a problem?

[Faith McCarron]

Timeframe for balance: N/A. Working as intended. Enjoy your trip to Russ Island.

[Mister Blastman]

Malakie, on 16 May 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

/snip

What is your ping?

It sounds like you are one of the players we hate to shoot at. Not because you are good, but because the game unfairly doesn't register damage to you. It doesn't matter if these players run an Assault or a Light, they can be standing still in an Atlas and they still won't properly register damage.

And that is the problem. It doesn't matter the size of the mech, hit detection is borked at times in this game and nobody can figure out why.

But I have absolutely zero problem wasting light mechs. They are laughably easy to kill with 2x PPC + 2x AC/UAC5.

Faith McCarron, on 16 May 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Timeframe for balance: N/A. Working as intended. Enjoy your trip to Russ Island.

I don't think we'll ever see proper balance in MWO...

Edited by Mister Blastman, 16 May 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[Tombstoner]

Flaming oblivion, on 16 May 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Then I suggest PGI play the game for 4-5 hours of a day and post how many of them got past hour 1 without rage quitting.

I think the entire dev team playes and clearly didn't rage quit.... added 3VP, ghost heat too boot as "fixes"

[YueFei]

Malakie, on 16 May 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Ok just finished a number of games... I laughed at some of the new replies here because apparently many ASSUME I was on the LOSING end of all these 0-12 games I talked about.. Well WRONG. In fact I just finished a few and two of those were 12-0 games and I was on the WINNING side both times...

And yet... I maintain exactly what I said before. The last 12-0 game I just had was ridiculous. I was in a medium mech. I got hit every where I turned by a number of mechs. At one point I was under active fire of two Assaults, a heavy and 2 mediums. Not only did I easily survive, my armor damage was minimal AND I held out until other members on MY team showed up to assist at which point we tanked them all within a minute or so...

So, here I am in a medium mech being mauled by 5 mechs for a good minute yet I survive that with nary any damage and then when some other team mates show we proceed to just tear them apart...

And some of you do not think there is a problem?

Either the server hit detection completely crapped out (which can happen, I have seen an entire match crap out where EVERYONE was warping all over the place until time ran out), your opponents have awful aim, or they were using bad weapon loadouts or firing their weapons well outside of optimal range.

I have played against guys like DrxAbstract, Ghogiel, Mister Blastman. Forget their buddies, if just 1 of them catches me in my Jenner and I do not have cover I can dive behind within the next 2 or 3 seconds, they basically erase my robot from the game. I still remember being intercepted by DrxAbstract (driving a Victor) in Jenner alley at close range on Frozen City and two-shotted. That is all it took, 4 seconds and two shots, 60 damage to the CT. My own fault for not scouting my own escape route properly before taking it (I could also have chosen to run through cave or wind my way through the city), or possibly timed my jump jet burst better to take the hit on a leg or torso twist to try to take the hit on my arm, but when I handed DrxAbstract the opportunity, he did not miss.

Edited by YueFei, 16 May 2014 - 10:07 AM.