43 replies to this topic

[JSmith7784]

Will more LRM's hit CT if chain fired than if group fired? Seems like a LRM 40 spreads out more then 2 LRM 20's chain fired?

[Alaskan Nobody]

I do not usually run enough tubes to know, but I am curious what the experts are gonna say.

This has the look of one of the more in depth and FUN topics.
(the above is mean seriously - I like the more detailed topics)

Edit: when I run weaponry that lets me do it - I chain fire when there is no AMS - people seem to die faster, but there could be other things at work with that as well.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 14 May 2014 - 05:46 PM.

[MortVent]

JSmith7784, on 14 May 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

Will more LRM's hit CT if chain fired than if group fired? Seems like a LRM 40 spreads out more then 2 LRM 20's chain fired?

situational

The spread is greater on a large alpha, but as far as ams is concerned it's one shot vs multiple salvos (aka the ams system takes out 6 missiles from a 40pt alpha vs 6 missiles from each 20pt chain fire salvo...or 12 per 40 pts fired)

Sometimes with indirect fire you want the larger spread to account for a fast moving target so at least some damage hits them (say vs a spider running at full tilt for cover)

A good way to see the difference is to use training grounds. Do one run vs a mech with alphas, then shoot the same mech the next run with chain fire

[ExplodedZombie]

If you see AMS taking out your missiles, alpha. Likewise if the enemy is in the open and you know you can tear him up. If your enemy is currently brawling friends, chain fire because they get rocked constantly.

[Alaskan Nobody]

ExplodedZombie, on 14 May 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

chain fire because they get rocked constantly.

That and it does seem to concentrate the damage better and more concentrated damage = faster kills.

[Modo44]

The choice is between more shake to the target but also more missiles lost to target movement and AMS, and more missiles on target but with less shake.

MortVent, on 14 May 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

The spread is greater on a large alpha,

Wrong. The spread is exactly the same whether you alpha or chain fire. It becomes smaller with Artemis+LoS and when using smaller launchers.

[Aym]

Modo44, on 14 May 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

The choice is between more shake to the target but also more missiles lost to target movement and AMS, and more missiles on target but with less shake.


Wrong. The spread is exactly the same whether you alpha or chain fire. It becomes smaller with Artemis+LoS and when using smaller launchers.

The more tubes per LRM LAuncher used, the greater the spread. 5 tubes concentrates the damage very well, 20 tubes doesn't. But it's not based on the size of the launcher, it's the number of missiles coming out of the hardpoint.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Modo44, on 14 May 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

Wrong. The spread is exactly the same whether you alpha or chain fire. It becomes smaller with Artemis+LoS and when using smaller launchers.

Well I can say this is wrong for sure.
Been trying 5 LRM5 on my Kintaro - and the spread is visibly bigger (and I hit more of the enemy mech) when I alpha them.

As for chainfiring meaning more miss.... yes and no.

When I chainfire them - that give the target more time to find cover - but I am more likely to miss outright alpha-firing them.
(IE: I alpha - and a light mech maneuvers juuust right so that, despite TAG and Arti, the missiles still miss)

[Modo44]

Shar Wolf, on 14 May 2014 - 08:56 PM, said:

Well I can say this is wrong for sure.
Been trying 5 LRM5 on my Kintaro - and the spread is visibly bigger (and I hit more of the enemy mech) when I alpha them.

Yes, visibly. As in, it looks bigger. They still all go to the CT or legs. The big looks are due to missiles coming from more locations on your mech. This does not change the actual spread on target.

Edited by Modo44, 14 May 2014 - 09:10 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Modo44, on 14 May 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

Yes, visibly. As in, it looks bigger. They still all go to the CT or legs.

Read what I wrote - they also spread more damage

[Modo44]

Yes, you hit more of the target because the missiles come at slightly different angles. This is simple trigonometry, and it does not change the spread of each individual launcher.

[MortVent]

Modo44, on 14 May 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

Yes, visibly. As in, it looks bigger. They still all go to the CT or legs. The big looks are due to missiles coming from more locations on your mech. This does not change the actual spread on target.

Actually it does... more areas are impacted. LRMs even at point blank with chain fire lrm20s still sandblast the entire mech. Even with artremis installed. Not just CT and Legs...it depends on angle of attack. But it boils down to larger the group the more noticeable the spread (try it in the training grounds or private match to compare ... get a couple guys to run the trial mechs, bring a catapult lrm40 boat... try it indirect, direct... you will see the difference)

And more noticeable misses too...

Edited by MortVent, 14 May 2014 - 09:23 PM.

[kesuga7]

Chainfire if the target is in the open
Alpha strike if enemy is nearing cover
Alpha strike if enemy has AMS


Alpha strike if your enemy has a orange side torso but healthy CT or a cored leg

Chainfire vs lights if they are not near cover and above statement does not apply

Edited by kesuga7, 14 May 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[JSmith7784]

I played the last 2 nights with 3 of my LRM boats. My CPLT LRM40 w/Artemis and Tag, my CPLT LRM50 w/Artemis and Tag and my BLR LRM50 w/Artemis and Tag. I tried each one, most with line of sight and tag lock in group fire mode and chain fire. Chain seems to keep each spread smaller since less LRM's are in the same space. It also seemed they were being fired quick enough were AMS only really hit the first batch of LRM's. I seemed to hit the entire mech when alpha firing my LRM's and more CT and arms when chain firing. I didn't notice getting kills any faster using one method or the other.

[mailin]

My favorite lrm build to date is my Stalker with 5 lrm 5s and 2160 missiles. I chain these and I am essentially heat neutral, As far as AMS goes, I have heard that AMS only takes out 5 or so missiles per volley, and I can vouch for the fact that I have seen three different AMS trying to hit my lrms but some are still getting through to my target, which if you think about it is a GREAT way to tear through the enemies' AMS ammo.

Also, lrm 5s chain fired work amazing well on lights out of cover.

[Abivard]

This depends on many factors and there is no all encompassing answer.

1 The size of the launcher,
2 How many tubes it is shooting thru,
3 Is it direct or indirect target,
4 the size of the target,
5 Is Artmeis in use,
6 Is tag in use,
7 How much AMS is in use,
8 Is ECM present
9 What map and what is the ambient temp,
10 What is the range to target
11 What is the speed of the mech,
12 What flight angle will you have.
13 Psyops, yes or no?
14 is the target shooting at you with aimed weapons?
15 how far from cover is the target
16 are other teammates firing LRM's at the target?

These are just the major factors to consider, I am not going spell it out or really elaborate about any of this. Instead you need to experiment for yourself while keeping all the above points in mind.

But as one can see, LRM's are easy to use only when the target is being cooperative, if your target isn't just going to stand there in the open with no AMS then LRM use becomes more difficult.

[Ursh]

With Artemis and TAG, chainfiring seems to really devastate the CT more than if I launched one big alpha.

[zortesh]

Aym, on 14 May 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

The more tubes per LRM LAuncher used, the greater the spread. 5 tubes concentrates the damage very well, 20 tubes doesn't. But it's not based on the size of the launcher, it's the number of missiles coming out of the hardpoint.

Right until the end, the spread is based on the launcher, shove a lrm 20 in a stalkers side torso, you can clearly see it has a vastly worse spread then a real lrm 5.

I view it this way, alpha firing missiles is better when indirect firing, or when there is alot of ams, cuz its more likely your missiles will land before you lose lock, and less will be lost to ams.

However for directfire its different, if the enemy is firing at you, you want them to have as much screenshake as humanly possible.

Chasing lights however, chainfire is better, as often you will lose and regain lock, with chainfire you wont lose a whole volley, also the screenshake will make it harder for the light to evade.

Its very situational... Besides only the stalker 3h can do volleys of 50 missiles without ghostheat, so for most cases chainfiring is better.

but with target decay and targets ducking back behind cover, alphaing is better.

Although say with a lrm 60 stalker or awesome... firing the lrm 15's in sets of two at a time is the best.

[CaptainDeez]

JSmith7784, on 14 May 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

Will more LRM's hit CT if chain fired than if group fired? Seems like a LRM 40 spreads out more then 2 LRM 20's chain fired?

The more missiles you can fire at once the better.

For example the stk-3h has two 20 tube launchers. It can fire an lrm 40 as one single block of missiles.
The advantages include:

Your salvo spends less time in ams range and very few missiles get destroyed before impact. Many more will be knocked out if they are in a long line.

Your target can often break lock. The first few missiles will hit and the rest will miss if they are in a chain. As one big group, when the first missile hits, the other 39 hit with it.

You hit lights more often. Most lights can laugh at a missile chain a few will hit, the rest impact the ground. A block of missiles has a square net shape, even moving lights find an alarming number of them hit, often on their legs ;-).


My 3h will out duel any other missile boat mech including a missile atlas. With Artemis and a tag it can strip chest armor in a few salvos and makes crits with regularity. The bigger the group, the bigger the bang.

[Just wanna play]

Basically what most have said, atthough one big thing to note is that hit detetion can handle a limited amount of missiles

CaptainDeez, on 30 May 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

My 3h will out duel any other missile boat mech including a missile atlas. With Artemis and a tag it can strip chest armor in a few salvos and makes crits with regularity. The bigger the group, the bigger the bang.

You must not have ever heard of the roflpault :3 80 missiles per salvo, and also an awesome can throw up bigger salvos (while only giving 4.5 less tons to work with, even less if the stalker wants to go the same speed as the awesome)then your 3h, one battlemaster can match that, and so one, and you can also put an lrm 5 i each of your side torsos for a 50 missile salvo ....just saying

also want to clear this up a bit

MortVent, on 14 May 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

as far as ams is concerned it's one shot vs multiple salvos (aka the ams system takes out 6 missiles from a 40pt alpha vs 6 missiles from each 20pt chain fire salvo...or 12 per 40 pts fired)

When chain firing like that^^^ or when you do not have the same amount of tubes as missiles, you do not actually loose missiles as if they were separate salvos because the "salvos" are far closer together, realistically, if you fired an lrm 20 out of a 5 tube, what would happen is 2-3 missiles shot down in the first salvo, then maybe 1 with each following salvo salvo (with 1 ams present) yes low tube count does give ams an easier time, BUT its not as much of an easier time as people think, also good idea to co-ordinate the launch with other people, then you can have everyone hit at the same time, reducing losses to ams by even more, and the salvo wont even be that big

zortesh, on 30 May 2014 - 12:51 AM, said:

Besides only the stalker 3h can do volleys of 50 missiles without ghostheat,

Catapault a1 (lrm 5s DO NOT have ANY ghost heat so 1 15+ 2 5s in each arm= 50 no ghost)

And

mailin, on 15 May 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

which if you think about it is a GREAT way to tear through the enemies' AMS ammo.

As long as missiles are being stopped, who cares about what the ams ammo is going towards? one guy i know would just fire lrm5 one at a time so people would run out of ams ammo, but its gonna knock out a certain amount of missiles per ton of ammo no matter what, so it doesnt matter hes just letting ams do its job, and he also though if lots of ams fired at missiles more ammo wasted, even though once the missile is destroyed they all stop firing -.-

Edited by Just wanna play, 30 May 2014 - 06:37 AM.