25 replies to this topic

[Cyberassassin]

If Clans get slugs and bird shot, I suggest giving the IS LB-10x some tweakability.
Similiar to adding range to lasers and missiles.

Upgrade LB-10x's to have a predictable shape to the spread. Circular, triangular, oval, line, etc...
This allows player to tailor the gun to playstyle but the shape options be restricted in order to prevent a particluar shape from being overpowered.

As a slight tangent to OP, a separate upgrade could be spread rate.

[Alcom Isst]

Reminds me of when I would mess with the settings of those fancy hose nozzles. That isn't a bad thing, those things were fun.

Edited by Alcom Isst, 15 May 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[theta123]

Give IS solid shot, make it less effective then clan solid shot

[EyeOne]

I think if they are going to give the Clan LBX the ability to switch ammo types they need to do something for the IS ones. I would argue that as soon as the clans drop all the UAC, ER, Streak and LBX tech needs to become available to the IS.

I mean if you balance the Clan ER Medium Laser with the IS Medium Laser what happens when you release the IS ER Medium Laser?

[Sug]

Cyberassassin, on 15 May 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

If Clans get slugs and bird shot, I suggest giving the IS LB-10x some tweakability.

Have they actually said anything about giving Clans LBXs selectable ammo types? I know they've mentioned adding it to the game in one of the old Ask The Devs posts.

I can't imagine they'd only give that capability to the Clans because that is how the LBX is supposed to function regardless of which tech it's based off of.

[EyeOne]

Sug, on 15 May 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Have they actually said anything about giving Clans LBXs selectable ammo types? I know they've mentioned adding it to the game in one of the old Ask The Devs posts.

I can't imagine they'd only give that capability to the Clans because that is how the LBX is supposed to function regardless of which tech it's based off of.

Paul mentioned in a few weeks ago on a NGNG podcast. Yeah, that's how news gets out. Yay.

[Ultimax]

Sug, on 15 May 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Have they actually said anything about giving Clans LBXs selectable ammo types? I know they've mentioned adding it to the game in one of the old Ask The Devs posts.

I can't imagine they'd only give that capability to the Clans because that is how the LBX is supposed to function regardless of which tech it's based off of.

This is from the recent NGNG interview with Paul:

http://mwomercs.com/...th-paul-inouye/

Quote

Clan LBX he is trying to be able to switch ammo like lore states. Trying to avoid for IS, because it would invalidate AC10.

[Red1769]

Sug, on 15 May 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Have they actually said anything about giving Clans LBXs selectable ammo types? I know they've mentioned adding it to the game in one of the old Ask The Devs posts.

I can't imagine they'd only give that capability to the Clans because that is how the LBX is supposed to function regardless of which tech it's based off of.

One of the podcasts? said it. UACs for clans will also be burst fire, according to that same podcast. They went with that route for the Clans because they have no normal AC, unlike the IS, and should they do the same for the IS's version, it would invalidate the normal AC.

And I got ninja'd

Edited by Red1769, 15 May 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[Bill Shakespear]

I can understand why having a solid slug option would make the standard IS AC/10 obsolete, but couldn't we give the LB some disadvantages when using slugs instead? Faster damage fall off beyond long range? Slower rate of fire when using slugs? An accuracy penalty?

In addition, I always thought the LBX should fire a projectile that behaves like an airburst and explodes in proximity to the target, spreading the damage around that way. We should theoretically be able to hit the target with all 10 projectiles out to 540m, but the current 'shotgun' effect is not very effective or accurate beyond 300m.

[Triordinant]

If I remember right, the reason is in MWO the Clans don't have normal AC10s, so they have nothing to make obsolete by giving the LB-10X a slug. Still, they should tighten up the spread of the IS LB-10Xs; maybe make it a canister round that starts spreading 50 meters from the target.

Edited by Triordinant, 15 May 2014 - 09:58 AM.

[Sprouticus]

The 'make AC10 obsolete' argument is non-sensical IMO.

The lbx10 is a shelf weapon right now for almost every Elo.
The AC10 is a shelf weapon right now for the top tier Elo.

So if you made the lbx10 useful, the AC10 would become non-useful. How is that different for today? 1 bad weapon and one wepon that is not optimal.

Not to mention that they could easily tweak the AC10 to make it better. Heck if they do something as small as force you to split ammo (an thus use more space on ammo, negating the lbx advantage) then it would fix the issue.

The 'real' reason IMO is that PGI wants clans and IS to feel different since they can't make the clans OP. Thus the different rules for customization, etc.

[Strum Wealh]

Alcom Isst, on 15 May 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Reminds me of when I would mess with the settings of those fancy hose nozzles. That isn't a bad thing, those things were fun.

A variable/adjustable choke system (see here for a 1939 patent of one variation of such a device, or here & here for models from a company that has apparently been selling them for the better part of a century) that is servo-driven & slaved to the "Mercury-VII targeting system" mentioned in TRO 2750 (the book in which the LB-X was first introduced in BattleTech, published in 1989) would fully account for the behavior of the LB-X ACs within the BattleTech gameplay rules (with the choke being set to "fully open" when firing LB-X slugs or when firing LB-X cluster rounds at extremely close range, being set to "full choke" when firing LB-X cluster rounds at long-range targets, having intermediate settings for targets at intermediate ranges, and automatically adjusting the choke setting based on the range-to-target as determined by the Mercury-VII) while still preserving the long-standing & canonical character & role of "LB-X as anti-BattleMech shotgun".

[Sug]

As I remember from TT, specialty munitions were what kept the AC/10 somewhat viable.

[Trauglodyte]

I'm still wondering if the whole "Clan weapons can do <insert here>" isn't just a test bed for what will eventually be coming out for the IS. In defense of the clans, the LB is their only standard AC so they should have some flexibility. But, that doesn't preclude the IS version not having some level of benefits. Right now, it takes about 24 salvoes of an LB 10-X to get through and kill a stock Awesome at 270m. That is a pathetic amount of time to get a kill and the crit bonus doesn't help you if you're only doing 1 point of damage when you crit.

In the end, the LB needs some fine tuning. Slug use may or may not be the solution but the IS version def needs some help.

[wanderer]

They think making the LB-10X fully functional would render the AC/10 obsolete?

It's not that hard to balance. Give the AC/10 a modestly faster ROF vs. the LB-10X, and have the LB-series AC's have a quicker damage falloff/maximum range due to firing from a smoothbore vs. a rifled barrel.

It's kinda depressing that the very fixes people were mentioning for AC's in general are now being used as ways to nerf Clan weaponry instead.

[Asmudius Heng]

Just make the LBX do more damage with each pellet and make it actually you know, useful since it is horrible at anything beyond knife fighting range ... at least make it better at being an in your face shot gun because it doesnt do that right now ...

[DerMaulwurf]

wanderer, on 15 May 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

They think making the LB-10X fully functional would render the AC/10 obsolete?

It's not that hard to balance. Give the AC/10 a modestly faster ROF vs. the LB-10X, and have the LB-series AC's have a quicker damage falloff/maximum range due to firing from a smoothbore vs. a rifled barrel.

It's kinda depressing that the very fixes people were mentioning for AC's in general are now being used as ways to nerf Clan weaponry instead.

I agree. It's quite astonishing that PGI doesn't seem to even seem to consider using that entirely new variable they introduced, that can tweek any relation. Especially after they used it on the AC/2 and AC/5.

If the standard AC had the advantage in raw dps, I'm sure there are enough people to prefer that over flexibility, heat and weight efficiency that the LB-X offers.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

EyeOne, on 15 May 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Paul mentioned in a few weeks ago on a NGNG podcast. Yeah, that's how news gets out. Yay.

yea why should any1 even bother to write down Command Chair post...

[CHH Badkarma]

LBX should have gotten selectable load types from the start.As pgi so often has in the past, the ball was dropped.

[l33tworks]

Making the lbx10 have selectable ammo will give it a disadvantage in some other respects, worse than it is now, I don't see selectable ammo an advantage when it comes with an expense or lack of a buff it the weapon otherwise may have had. Jack of all trades master of none.
Personally I don't want to sit there switching between ammo types. If they make it a separately mountable weapon to the regular LBX10 for example that takes up another tonn, or has slower rate of fire etc but with switchable ammo, that would be ok, but leave the people that just want to use the LBX10 as a shotgun what it is and not have to deal with the drawbacks that will come with having switch-able ammo which they will never use.