34 replies to this topic

[Torgun]

As a new player it can be really hard to see how one mech overall compares to another, that's why I want to warn every new player that visit this part of the forum. Don't waste your hard-earned CBills on Victors. The devs for some reason think it's reasonable to make Victors both turn and torso-twist slower than heavier mechs with the same engine. It's totally backwards logic to the very basics of MWO where heavier mechs should turn/twist slower while using the same engine as a lighter mech. Even after multiple threads that point out the obvious flaws of the "balancing" from the devs, they refuse to acknowledge how they've so obviously failed to make a reasonable balancing to the Victors. You've been warned, unless you want to waste CBills on a gimped mech that will collect dust in your mechbay.

[Modo44]

As a not so new player, the Victor is currently the strongest assault mech in the game. If you like to drive assaults, buy that. Note that it needs a big engine -- usually a big XL -- to shine, so the cost of a fully upgraded setup is pretty high. The strength is in overall mobility, and the ease of jump-sniping.

Edited by Modo44, 16 May 2014 - 07:49 AM.

[Kelev Ra]

I like this mech. But it's not my favorite.
For a new player I would recommend start from Medium or Jagger.
Assault mechs requires some experience and understanding go gameplay.
Enjoy.

Edited by Judas Maccabeus, 16 May 2014 - 07:56 AM.

[BOWMANGR]

Victors are fine. Stop qq'ing.

[InRev]

Yes, please keep players away from arguably the most dominant mech in the game.

It will make for more interesting matches, instead of seeing the usual 5-6 Victors per drop.

[FlipOver]

Modo44, on 16 May 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

As a not so new player, the Victor is currently the strongest assault mech in the game. If you like to drive assaults, buy that. Note that it needs a big engine -- usually a big XL -- to shine, so the cost of a fully upgraded setup is pretty high. The strength is in overall mobility, and the ease of jump-sniping.

Typical meta Victor.
What the OP is referring to is that PGI managed to remove the Victors mobility to the point that the only thing a Victor is good at now is pop-tarting from a high distance.

But time will come when PPC/Gauss will no longer be the meta and then you will have a stiff Victor to use, or better yet, you will have a Victor collecting dust on the mechbay.

I love the Victor, have often used any of the 3 C-Bills variants with an average range of 500m. (med to close range)
I hate the current meta. Will never use it on a Victor.
As the Victor stands, it's almost impossible to have anything else than a jump-sniper. So for that reason, Victors are collecting dust and will probably be sold in a near future. I'll take my CTF-3D anytime over a Victor.

Edit - the CTF-3D is a pure brawler, no weapon goes further than 400m.

Edited by FlipOver, 16 May 2014 - 08:08 AM.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

as an Atlas pilot, I've lost count the amount of times I went full frontal on a Victor and got my ass handed to me by a better pilot. The vic is a good mech. I played it as a trial and my KDR in it was higher than all of my mechs.

you just have buyers remorse

I remember feeling the same after buying the Atlas.. lol..

[Modo44]

FlipOver, on 16 May 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Typical meta Victor.

Indeed, that was my take on a jump-sniping setup (with AMS and more back armor than the usual competitive mechs). However, you can be just as scary with high-DPS builds. The basic principle is the same: Use the speed to show up in unexpected places, use the armor and firepower to do major damage while you are there.

Edit: I would also add that arm weapons make this mech for me personally. Other assaults typically have torso-mounted and/or torso-locked and/or low-slung weapons. The Victor can reach far wider when you combine jump-turning, torso turning and arm movement.

Edited by Modo44, 16 May 2014 - 08:19 AM.

[FlipOver]

Modo44, on 16 May 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Indeed, that was my take on a jump-sniping setup (with AMS and more back armor than the usual competitive mechs). However, you can be just as scary with high-DPS builds. The basic principle is the same: Use the speed to show up in unexpected places, use the armor and firepower to do major damage while you are there.

Edit: I would also add that arm weapons make this mech for me personally. Other assaults typically have torso-mounted and/or torso-locked weapons. The Victor can reach far wider when you combine jump-turning, torso turning and arm movement.

Your 9K loadout is similar to the one I use, although I have a few changed made to ensure speed + increase chances of survival with just a bid less of firepower (still in the 40dmg range).
And it was a good build, until I started to not be able to keep up with a medium running circles around me, even when I used the JJs to help on the twist.
Since then, just stopped using the Victors. I mean, 80tons, powerful engine, JJs to assist turning, and can't even keep up with a guy running around me doing less than 100kph. Ridiculous.

I understand how one can use a Victor to brawl, I also understand that after the nerf a Victor is 30% less effective at it. And for such a difference I'll get a smaller, lighter, faster, more nimble 'Mech for the same or a bit better effect.

[Modo44]

I am not denying that it is harder to pilot an assault that suddenly does not perform like a heavy anymore. However, it is still extremely potent. If you want an actual death trap to compare, buy an Awesome.

[FlipOver]

Modo44, on 16 May 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

I am not denying that it is harder to pilot an assault that suddenly does not perform like a heavy anymore. However, it is still extremely potent. If you want an actual death trap to compare, buy an Awesome.

Indeed.
I still use the Victor from time to time, just for nostalgia sake. Play 1-2 matches and then go to another 'Mech. I even like more to play with the Atlas than the Victor now... And the Atlas is a damn stiff 'Mech.

About buying another 'Mech, I wont do that.
I understand what you are saying about the Awesome, but at the rate PGI is changing chassis and weapon specs, it will take me a loooong time until I invest in any other 'Mech.
I'll use my small 6 Mastered - 1 Elite group to test builds, performance on their roles and when PGI says the game is balanced or they will no longer change anything on "older" chassis, then I might buy one of those. Until then it just seems a big waste of C-Bills.

[DONTOR]

FlipOver, on 16 May 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Typical meta Victor.
What the OP is referring to is that PGI managed to remove the Victors mobility to the point that the only thing a Victor is good at now is pop-tarting from a high distance.

But time will come when PPC/Gauss will no longer be the meta and then you will have a stiff Victor to use, or better yet, you will have a Victor collecting dust on the mechbay.

I love the Victor, have often used any of the 3 C-Bills variants with an average range of 500m. (med to close range)
I hate the current meta. Will never use it on a Victor.
As the Victor stands, it's almost impossible to have anything else than a jump-sniper. So for that reason, Victors are collecting dust and will probably be sold in a near future. I'll take my CTF-3D anytime over a Victor.

Edit - the CTF-3D is a pure brawler, no weapon goes further than 400m.

Not true. A good pilot can still brawl like a beast in a Victor, its the only way I use mine and it still rocks, just isnt as good as it was.

[Jacon Ceronia]

The Vic is one of the very best in the game. Problem is, everyone knows it-- ergo, you might as well be running around in a gold Timberwolf.

[FlipOver]

DONTOR, on 16 May 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Not true. A good pilot can still brawl like a beast in a Victor, its the only way I use mine and it still rocks, just isnt as good as it was.

You might want to keep reading the thread but let me ask you, like a beast compared to what? The old Victor specs? The Highlander?

I don't deny it's still a "good" 'Mech, but it is just too stiff to justify getting an 80ton Assault when you have other options with same set of skills and more armored.
Only current reason: speed (but most of the time you need an XL engine to keep it high enough to be better than some of the others).

[Modo44]

FlipOver, on 16 May 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

You might want to keep reading the thread but let me ask you, like a beast compared to what?

Every other assault.

[Koniving]

FlipOver, on 16 May 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Typical meta Victor.
What the OP is referring to is that PGI managed to remove the Victors mobility to the point that the only thing a Victor is good at now is pop-tarting from a high distance.

But time will come when PPC/Gauss will no longer be the meta and then you will have a stiff Victor to use, or better yet, you will have a Victor collecting dust on the mechbay.

Just to mention it, Gauss hasn't been Meta for a long, long time.
The typical meta Victor is either twin UAC/5s (or twin AC/5s) + 2 PPCs, and SRMs.

Now an intelligent Victor is one equipped with 2 or 3 ML, 2 or 3 streaks, an LB-x and an AC/5. This allows you to overcome the limitations of mobility and still produce over 800 damage and 6 to 10 kills under the right conditions.

The twist speed is down because that right arm on all but 1 regular variant of Victor, is NOT supposed to go left or right at all, ever. Like the Yen Lo Wang it's supposed to be center-locked with only up and down movement. (Same for the Highlander 733C).

The mech's turn speed, however, trumps every assault except the Awesome. It's only the twist speed that is down.
It twists as slow as an Atlas. It turns as fast as an Awesome 9M.

Awesome 9M.
320 29.5 18.5 10 +2 slots 64.8 kph (71.3 kph) 45.86 °/s 7.85 s
Victor 9B (the most "OP" Victor).
320 29.5 18.5 10 +2 slots 64.8 kph (71.3 kph) 45.86 °/s 7.85 s

Use Smurfy, find the mech you want and click the "Engine" numbers to see a chart.

That's the fastest turn speed of 80 through 100 ton mechs.

Now, twist speed is another matter. It has the same as the Highlander and the Atlas.
Meanwhile the Awesome (whose twist speeds got buffed to make the worthless thing more appealing when it should be significantly superior in armor to the Victor), Stalker (with super limited twist) and the Battlemaster (with lore-breaking limited twist) and the Banshee (90% of whose weapons are torso mounted) have much faster twist speeds.

[Sarlic]

Torgun, on 16 May 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

As a new player it can be really hard to see how one mech overall compares to another, that's why I want to warn every new player that visit this part of the forum. Don't waste your hard-earned CBills on Victors. The devs for some reason think it's reasonable to make Victors both turn and torso-twist slower than heavier mechs with the same engine. It's totally backwards logic to the very basics of MWO where heavier mechs should turn/twist slower while using the same engine as a lighter mech. Even after multiple threads that point out the obvious flaws of the "balancing" from the devs, they refuse to acknowledge how they've so obviously failed to make a reasonable balancing to the Victors. You've been warned, unless you want to waste CBills on a gimped mech that will collect dust in your mechbay.

So, who's ALT account are you from?

Edited by Sarlic, 16 May 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[Modo44]

For anyone interested in a brawler setup, here you go. Super safe, face melting.

Koniving, on 16 May 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Just to mention it, Gauss hasn't been Meta for a long, long time.
The typical meta Victor is either twin UAC/5s (or twin AC/5s) + 2 PPCs, and SRMs.

Actually, Gauss is coming back with some teams now that the (U)AC5 has significant dropoff at long range. My long-range 9K build is stolen from Heimdelight's Dragon Slayer, only tweaked for solo play. There is also that suicidal dual Gauss 3D build running around. I think we will see the final specifics during PGI's tournament.

Edited by Modo44, 16 May 2014 - 09:14 AM.

[Koniving]

Sarlic, on 16 May 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

So, who's ALT account are you from?

While possible, there is an on-going thread called "unnerf the victor" or somesuch. It's about a week old and keeps popping up on the general discussion. Recruits can't post there, but they can read it as easily as anyone can.
Combine this with how the champion victor makes a mockery out of the meta loadout to make it look bad, and there you have it a frustrated newbie who popped on and saw it.

I had a disgustingly long debate back and forth, as the original poster in that thread was complaining about how slow the turning is.. when it turns almost as fast a Shadowhawk. Then got attacked, but the other person was talking the entire time about twist speeds while I was talking about turn speeds and it got kinda stupid and ugly. Ironically I never disagreed with him about the twist nerf but it's a nerf to brawling because the mech does it too good.

And why does it brawl so good?

Its hitbox hasn't changed much if it ever did at all. See the 'angles' of the side torsos? Very easy to spread damage by twisting, allowing you to pull off Stalker Tanker Syndrome without the 50% damage reduction to CT from losing the STs.

Modo44, on 16 May 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Actually, Gauss is coming back with some teams now that the (U)AC5 has significant dropoff at long range. My long-range 9K build is stolen from Heimdelight's Dragon Slayer, only tweaked for solo play. There is also that suicidal dual Gauss 3D build running around. I think we will see the final specifics during PGI's tournament.

Somehow seems unlikely. Can't even fire some weapons while its charging. But hey more power to them and the macros overcoming the charging mechanic have been spreading like wildfire. Its probably in preparation for the oncoming Clan ER PPCs + Clan Gauss stuff. But Gauss doing 45 damage in over 10 seconds, while Clan ER PPCs does 45 in 8...it seems rather silly aside from the insane heat from the ER PPCs; but that's what is supposed to govern them.

[Koniving]

Personally I started using Gauss Rifles for something different. The game's become so dumbed down.. LRMs are just 'hold them down' weapons. Autocannons are spam fire. Lasers you just slow down, line up and fire which makes them somewhat different but in the long run gimps you unless you go the LPL route.

Gauss at least gives me that tactical feeling. (Language warning; if certain 4 letter words in casual conversation offends you, you probably shouldn't click play.)

My Hollander does modestly well. Sometimes get about 3 kills for 20 shots. Thing's a walking time bomb though.

Edited by Koniving, 16 May 2014 - 09:24 AM.