79 replies to this topic

[Angry Kittens in a Mech]

"A thinking mans shooter" says it all.

I've only been playing a couple of months and I still kinda suck, but my KDA and L/W ratios have all improved for some simple reasons:

Learn the maps:
From game 1 you will feel lost. Guess why? You are.
Each map has multiple paths, hiding spots, sniping points, deployable team tactics etc. You will learn something new every match, over time you can exploit that knowledge.

Learn the Mechs:
IRL my money is on a commando kicking a banshees ass. Super ninja vs Ghosty thing? np, hoo-rah, and death from above!
In game this is not the case. There are no ninjas or ghosts - so learn the role and limits of weights and classes, then learn what those Mechs do. They all perform, chase, shoot, absorb damage(etc) differently. At first it seems subtle, and then it all starts to make sense.

The "Pew Pew Pew" of it all:
This isn't CoD or BF. Camping and getting headshots won't count for **** here, in fact your team might just shoot you instead.
The damage system here is fairly strange but the basics are the basics. Focus fire. The damage seems to be exponential, ie: your team can drop an Atlas in about 5 seconds. Solo? Good luck having a face.
Don't worry about "stealing kills" - you are all there to win. On that note: Don't be a ***** KS'r that only shoots at 30% targets.

As a new player I advise a very simple strategy: Follow your team. Always. Let them pick the fights and the targets, support them in the battle. Their is no harm or shame in staying with the pack to do what they need you to do: be a supportive team mate. Hands down win or loss thats all your team expects: people playing WITH the team.

And lastly: Ask.
Every game I have ever played in 20 years has trolls, {Richard Cameron}, ********, pervs and {Richard Cameron} and trolls.
Personally, I find a complete minority of them in MWO.
Not everyone will talk or give you tips. Plenty more will.
I like this community and how they play with and against each other. Trust me, they know you are new. And 90% are ok with that. And also trust me: We ALL hate that other 10%.
Stay in the death cam and ask quick questions in ALL CHAT or TEAM CHAT. 50/50 someone bites and now you know a little more. We all start somewhere, and we all have our own pace. Don't be discouraged - just return fire.

GL and by all means HF

[n r g]

Angry Kittens in a Mech, on 19 May 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

"A thinking mans shooter" says it all.

I've only been playing a couple of months and I still kinda suck, but my KDA and L/W ratios have all improved for some simple reasons:

Learn the maps:
From game 1 you will feel lost. Guess why? You are.
Each map has multiple paths, hiding spots, sniping points, deployable team tactics etc. You will learn something new every match, over time you can exploit that knowledge.

Learn the Mechs:
IRL my money is on a commando kicking a banshees ass. Super ninja vs Ghosty thing? np, hoo-rah, and death from above!
In game this is not the case. There are no ninjas or ghosts - so learn the role and limits of weights and classes, then learn what those Mechs do. They all perform, chase, shoot, absorb damage(etc) differently. At first it seems subtle, and then it all starts to make sense.

The "Pew Pew Pew" of it all:
This isn't CoD or BF. Camping and getting headshots won't count for **** here, in fact your team might just shoot you instead.
The damage system here is fairly strange but the basics are the basics. Focus fire. The damage seems to be exponential, ie: your team can drop an Atlas in about 5 seconds. Solo? Good luck having a face.
Don't worry about "stealing kills" - you are all there to win. On that note: Don't be a ***** KS'r that only shoots at 30% targets.

As a new player I advise a very simple strategy: Follow your team. Always. Let them pick the fights and the targets, support them in the battle. Their is no harm or shame in staying with the pack to do what they need you to do: be a supportive team mate. Hands down win or loss thats all your team expects: people playing WITH the team.

And lastly: Ask.
Every game I have ever played in 20 years has trolls, {Richard Cameron}, ********, pervs and {Richard Cameron} and trolls.
Personally, I find a complete minority of them in MWO.
Not everyone will talk or give you tips. Plenty more will.
I like this community and how they play with and against each other. Trust me, they know you are new. And 90% are ok with that. And also trust me: We ALL hate that other 10%.
Stay in the death cam and ask quick questions in ALL CHAT or TEAM CHAT. 50/50 someone bites and now you know a little more. We all start somewhere, and we all have our own pace. Don't be discouraged - just return fire.

GL and by all means HF

Disagree with that one. Most FPS tactics transfer and are successful here in MechWarrior. Actually, the whole premise behind what everyone hates about "jump sniping" or "pop tarting" is to shoot and get behind cover. You'll see this any FPS. Map awareness and putting crossfire on the same target as-well.

The best players in MechWarrior play MWO as if it were an FPS.

Edited by 3N3RGY, 19 May 2014 - 11:24 PM.

[Scurry]

Angry Kittens in a Mech, on 19 May 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

And lastly: Ask.
Every game I have ever played in 20 years has trolls, {Richard Cameron}, ********, pervs and {Richard Cameron} and trolls.
Personally, I find a complete minority of them in MWO.
Not everyone will talk or give you tips. Plenty more will.
I like this community and how they play with and against each other. Trust me, they know you are new. And 90% are ok with that. And also trust me: We ALL hate that other 10%.

Well, not really totally OK. But we don't blame the player, we blame PGI.

[Mott]

sneeking, on 20 May 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

I play it more like twisted metal or carmagedon

or if iv got jj's like some rabbid dog Japanese zero pilot draging its fuselage through the dirt ! machine guns and srm in your butt and in your face

Having smoked you this past weekend while you were in a full blown, pell-mell charge in a half stripped mech against superior forces... i can attest to these statements.

You're nutso

[Bigbacon]

best rule for new players is have fun and don't come to the forums and soak up all the negativity.

also don't compare it to the table top....because it isn't.

[Koniving]

Now, I'm hardly a troll. (Wouldn't have earned a Welcoming Committee tag if I was a jerk and non-helpful; nor the full Clan mech package special thanks to a no longer new player from over a year ago who benefitted significantly from help I provided [seriously man, you said you were getting me "a clan mech" and suddenly I have 240 dollars in Clan mechs and 30 dollars in MC; my TV monitor screen is still sticky with coffee from when I saw that O_O]).

But I loved this game a lot more in closed beta, early open beta. Back then there was a lot more tactical thought into everything every player did. This was due to a variety of reasons. Repair and rearm costs (before it started giving free 25% repairs and free 80% ammo which caused tremendous exploits and flooded the game with LRM boats). Weapons that were dangerous but not instantly killing (lack of pinpoint due to inability to lock arms and delayed convergence making weapons imprecise if you 'rushed' them. LRMs reloaded slowly but did 1.8 damage, and since people fired all their missiles at once there was plenty of time to move from cover to cover. Also locks were lost instantly. You could evade missiles by stepping sideways and powering down; but when you did there was a spotter waiting to hit you when you can't tell where he is. Cockpit shot!) Mechs could do limited melee combat; mostly Lariats and Drop Kicks. Players didn't die instantly and it was safe to move at 64.8 kph in a medium mech since heat management mattered more and there were some (limited, true, but they existed) heat penalties for reaching and sustaining more than 80% heat, such as taking damage to your weapons, heatsinks and ammunition.

But most importantly, the greatest tactical element was Objectives that mattered. Objectives so important that killing each other was a secondary means to complete the objective.

(Not only did it pay more to win than it did to lose, but it once paid more to capture the enemy base on assault. In fact, it paid the most to capture the base and leave every enemy still alive! This was due to the salvage system combined with the larger payout for base capture versus killing mechs. Can you imagine how much more tactical that is? You have to attack the enemy to keep them busy, try to steal the base, and defend your base all at the same time. Every mech had something to do and there was important reason to play light and medium mechs! You can't camp. You can't stay still. If you found a good vantage point it didn't last long. Why? The battle keeps moving. It keeps relocating. Much more of the map gets used.)

Now, some of this is coming back at some point.

• R&R is a "backburner item" until Community Warfare (the mainstay of the game and a huge chunk of content) is released.
  
• Limited melee (aka knockdowns) to come sometime after, and monitors that work inside the mech after that.
  
• Eventually the game will also have working moving parts on some maps.
  
  • The gates of HPG will start out able to closed. Meaning some mechs will have to climb the walls, get inside and open the gates. You can then deliberately close the gates on the enemy to prevent them from entering or escaping.
    
  • Some elements are supposed to be destructable, such as the bridges on Canyon or the Entrance to the Cave in Frozen City (south side; it's very obviously designed with the idea in mind).
• Its my hope that intelligent rebalancing of the game modes will include an economic overhaul that puts more emphasis on the objective than "kill everyone." Taking bases is hard. It should also be more important, as it makes everyone play to a role.

Now, watch this video. Notice that despite all the easy kills out there, the Atlases and the Muromets come to attack me, the fully armored and healthy Atlas guarding the base. Why? They'd get twice as much for taking the base than they would for killing every single player.


Old school tactical elements.

Spoiler

Compare to now.

Spoiler

This is what you get for capturing a base and playing to the objective.

....Nothing.

This video has an entire team camping at the most advantageous point. Why? It is Skirmish, true. But this happens on ALL game modes. It's not worth defending their base on Assault as it pays better to kill everyone and doesn't pay enough to capture, and on Conquest it pays better to kill everyone.

Description:

Quote

Tactical failures: #1, failure to flank.
In a positional stalemate with an advantage leaning toward the enemy (example, height), it is the duty of any high-speed capable or climb-capable mechs to circle around and flank the enemy from the opposite side.
Failure to do so will result in the eventual loss of personnel until such time as the forces are overwhelmed and annihilated.

Here, 2 players tried to capture the base. This would be great, except we don't get paid dirt for it, and it cost us two mechs that we couldn't afford to lose. And then, because they have never done it before, they weren't very bright about it.

Description:

Quote

Tactical Failures #2:
In a situation that is 10 versus 12, we are winning despite our numerical disadvantage. 2 of our guys decide to go for the base cap, leaving us with 8 versus 12.

While not great, it's not a bad idea either if we were losing from the start. The enemy quickly realizes their numerical advantage over us when the capture begins since the base capture is now rushing them to the field. Maybe the capture will go through, right? Except it turns out the guy capturing -- an assault mech -- hasn't got any self-preservation skills and stares into death.

The game was great. It's okay now. It's my hope that it becomes great again soon after PGI's small staff has finished CW's big introduction and able to step back to see where the game is falling apart while their heads are under the hood enhancing the gadgets (new earnings systems and black market; planet run economies) and underlying structure (extended gameplay depth and content).

The trouble is, like many, the waiting is hard and worrisome because PGI is well known for being overly optimistic with their dates and then pushing them back as unforeseen things come up. It'd be better to estimate late and finish early than estimate 'on time' and be super late.

To bide my time I personally sit down and jot down everything I would have done differently; it's a great educational experience since I'm going into game design myself. I'll see everything done right and wrong, and know "this is good," "that is great," "that's okay" and "this is awful."

(Adding another match during when base capture was more important to players than killing everyone, in the form of a single player mockup that I abandoned before finishing. Enjoy some communication chatter, base defense, and an epic final stand to keep the enemy team from earning extra cash -- I'm serious back then players would accept enemy surrender at one enemy left, as capturing the base paid more!)

(Every time an allied player dies or enemy player dies, there's a communications chatter relating to it. Some even prelude to impending deaths. Shame I lost the files so I never got to finish it. Epic "shutdown bug" glitch right at the end made it pretty sweet.)

Edited by Koniving, 20 May 2014 - 07:32 AM.

[Danghen Woolf]

Mechwarrior Angry Kittens in a... umm... Mech,

Firstly, you should probably have your techs take a look for some room for a litter box or two before those kittens start messing everything up. Secondly, stay positive. I like that you have an open mind about the simulators. Not everyone out there can be the Black Widow or Hanse Davion on the field. Use your head and don't get burned out on other mechwarriors opinions on the Net. Asking for help from veteran mechwarriors is always a good idea, just remember that the way you apply their advice should be dependant on how you prefer to utilize your mech. A Highlander pilot may not have good advice for a Jenner pilot, but he might have advice on how to take the Jenner pilot out and what he expects from a Jenner. Take that advice and use it to do something unexpected. Good take, good luck, keep it upright.

Corporal Woolf signing off...

[mailin]

To the OP, very nice post overall. I would add for new players to let their teams know that they are new. Sometimes they won't say anything, but if I am on a team and a friendly player says that I tend to 1) Offer any assistance I can, such as covering them with ECM, or staying close to them if they get isolated, and 2) Offer suggestions rather than *harp* on them for silly decision-making.

[Flaming oblivion]

I'm the mean poster you should fear, But seriously what you should all know , This should be common sense but I have seen so many people doing it its unbelievable , Don't stand still in a light firing at a heavy / assault , It wont end well for you , After the heavy/assaults got back on his chair from falling off laughing , your getting one - two shotted .

[Koniving]

Flaming oblivion, on 20 May 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Don't stand still in a light firing at a heavy / assault when standing in front of the enemy, or in front of his friends, or while otherwise being the center of attention. It won't end well for you.

There. You'd be quite surprised how much more effective lights are if they slow down or stop to concentrate their fire. But there's a time and a place, and in front of the enemy is NOT that time or place.

[Phobic Wraith]

Welcome to the game! glad you're sticking around. And now that you're here, you're already doing what every member of the community needs to learn at some point - help the new players. Oh, and a secondary, Koniving is always right. If you think he's wrong then he'll throw math at you.

[Blalok]

Most often, it's not the assault you've stopped to face off with that you need to worry about - it's the ac-40 jager around the corner to his left that blindsides you.

[mailin]

When I drive a light I love it when an assault stops to fight someone else. That's when I slide in BEHIND them and let loose. Even then it's dangerous without seismic, cause you won't see the mech that's coming up behind you when you're behind an assault.

Good lesson to know, when stopped in a light ==> Alpha stirke, torso twist to check your 6 while your weapons recharge, lather, rinse, repeat.

[LordKnightFandragon]

****, half my problem in this game is I cant even see the mechs, they literally blend into the mountains and buildings. I look right at them and dont see them, typically I dont have this issue in any game. But this game mechs have the same textures, the same overlays and colors as the terrain. Only way I ever see them is the red dorito over their head...

Is there a way to reduce the fog and crap to make mechs easier to actually see?

Then the inverted reverse controls are kicking my ass.....I wanna back up right and I back up left.....like wtf? SD is back right, SA is back left......atleast in a logical, sensible world....

Atleast im not dying in 2 seconds and actually managing over 100dmg...but not much more then that. And whats the trick to landing like every shot CT? lol.

[mailin]

Lord, if there's too much fog, try Heat Vision (H by default).

RE: Controls, I have nothing f you because they work fine for me.

To land shots better, simply practice more. You WILL get better.

[Flaming oblivion]

Something else new players should know If you see someone in front of you (in particular if his name is flaming oblivion) don't stand in his line of fire and don't keep moving every time he moves or literally following him standing in front of him , not sure what your intentions are other then to stop him being able to fire. And see how much he thanks you .

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Koniving, on 20 May 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

I loved this game a lot more in closed beta, early open beta. Back then there was a lot more tactical thought into everything every player did. This was due to a variety of reasons. Repair and rearm costs (before it started giving free 25% repairs and free 80% ammo which caused tremendous exploits and flooded the game with LRM boats). Weapons that were dangerous but not instantly killing (lack of pinpoint due to inability to lock arms and delayed convergence making weapons imprecise if you 'rushed' them. LRMs reloaded slowly but did 1.8 damage, and since people fired all their missiles at once there was plenty of time to move from cover to cover. Also locks were lost instantly. You could evade missiles by stepping sideways and powering down; but when you did there was a spotter waiting to hit you when you can't tell where he is. Cockpit shot!) Mechs could do limited melee combat; mostly Lariats and Drop Kicks. Players didn't die instantly and it was safe to move at 64.8 kph in a medium mech since heat management mattered more and there were some (limited, true, but they existed) heat penalties for reaching and sustaining more than 80% heat, such as taking damage to your weapons, heatsinks and ammunition.

But most importantly, the greatest tactical element was Objectives that mattered. Objectives so important that killing each other was a secondary means to complete the objective.

(Not only did it pay more to win than it did to lose, but it once paid more to capture the enemy base on assault. In fact, it paid the most to capture the base and leave every enemy still alive! This was due to the salvage system combined with the larger payout for base capture versus killing mechs. Can you imagine how much more tactical that is? You have to attack the enemy to keep them busy, try to steal the base, and defend your base all at the same time. Every mech had something to do and there was important reason to play light and medium mechs! You can't camp. You can't stay still. If you found a good vantage point it didn't last long. Why? The battle keeps moving. It keeps relocating. Much more of the map gets used.)

Koniving, you make good posts and do good things for this game & community. But, I'm not sure I agree with the idea changing game variables will instantly resurrect the beta days when players were competent, coordinated and planned strategically.

I think, the reason players may have been more strategy oriented in the beta era is most were veteran or elite pilots making a transition to MWO from MechWarrior 4. The majority of the player base at that time may literally have had years of experience to draw upon at playing games in the mechwarrior franchise.

The most significant change from then till now isn't the objectives or LRM's but rather the player base.

We've exchanged a player base majority wise comprised of experienced veterans for a player base comprised of green, inexperienced, beginners.

New players typically resort to the simplest tactics. Base camping. Tunnel. Chase the light. Hide and wait for their entire team to perish before making a move. Et all.

The reason people camp and do things that lead to the game being boring and repetitive isn't due to objectives. Its due to a significant portion of every team being comprised of newer players learning the ropes, with there being no real way for them to gain the foundation they need to approach things from a strategic perspective.

Will that change if LRM's are tweaked or objectives are re-arranged? I'm thinking: no.

But considering I've only been playing this game since december 2013 -- I could be wrong on that..

[Koniving]

I Zeratul I, on 21 May 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Will that change if LRM's are tweaked or objectives are re-arranged? I'm thinking: no.

But considering I've only been playing this game since december 2013 -- I could be wrong on that..

Instant change? No, it'd be a gradual change. Much like the current situation has gradually devolved. Its my hope that through things like that the game's experience would gradually evolve. After all players see something, can't fathom why it is, then investigate and learn....sometime long after others have already begun doing it.

A slow poke meme would fit here somewhere.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Koniving, on 20 May 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

All that....anyway, the single player bit...I was really looking forward to this game being a SP coop campaign type game....Kinda like based off the trailer with the Warhammer and the Atlas.....looked really awesome.

I lost a massive amount of intrest in it once I heard it was going to be World of Tanks with Mechs....and even more when there wasnt and still isnt a Zeus lol.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 21 May 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[Koniving]

LordKnightFandragon, on 21 May 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

All that....anyway, the single player bit...I was really looking forward to this game being a SP coop campaign type game....Kinda like based off the trailer with the Warhammer and the Atlas.....looked really awesome.

I lost a massive amount of intrest in it once I heard it was going to be World of Tanks with Mechs....and even more when there wasnt and still isnt a Zeus lol.

Its supposed to get quite a bit more.

But it likely won't have co-op against AI.

Unfortunately the slow dryspells is a result of a mix of making the above happen and pumping Clan mechs out. There's 8 new ones coming next month.

Edited by Koniving, 22 May 2014 - 07:31 AM.