185 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Merchant, on 05 June 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Except there are, so far, 3 trolls here and I am none of them.

The tone of your posts and your reactions to the others posts are not helping your case any.

[1453 R]

MEH.

Haters gonna hate, I s'pose.

Someone remind me to go run my CDA-3M some when I get home tonight...

[Tesunie]

Merchant, on 05 June 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Except there are, so far, 3 trolls here and I am none of them.


No, I take nothing out of context. As I said to Iraqiwalker, he and now you are trying to compare games and elements about Humans to a game about Vehicles. Not everything about the two are similar, there are many things that do not line up and should not.

There have been too many efforts to elevate the Sniper in this game above all others. I partly blame the lack of information people get from various media about this including military games, books, film and TV thus giving society a bad, horrible view on military subjects.

MWO has had its focus too much on SniperWarrior Online. It needs to stop.

Sorry Merchant. But if it quacks like a duck. Looks like a duck. And Etc etc... It's a duck.

So far, your behavior here (though I would love to believe otherwise) is very borderline on the "troll" aspect of things.

1. Expression "Lieing in wait to hit them like a New York Mugger" was an analogy. It would be no different than saying "Acting like a ninja to not be seen until it's too late". All it was saying was that, if you want to be stealthy, then it should require more than just an GECM unit, which preforms more functions in the game than it should by all accounts in lore. There are other pieces of gear which provides the more "stealth" aspects of GECM, such as Stealth Armor, which take up crit slots and remove certain other upgrade options. This is a point of balance for stealth vs firepower in battletech. In MWO however, all you need is ECM and you gain the same benefits of what would have taken several more crits if not more tonnage to do by most accounts within lore.
Pointing out a tiny flaw in a piece of someone's debate that has no relation to the subject (such as "Like a New York Mugger" in this case) is called the straw man argument. The expression itself is irrelevant to the point it is making. Thus, reread the post you quoted, as you took things out of context and responded to the post in general incorrectly and not listening to the presumed undertones and concept of the post in general.

2. You then continue to dismiss people's ideas "until they learn..." This is another flawed argument, as it tries to invalidate everyone else's opinion that doesn't agree with your own as "we don't have the qualified understanding of...". I don't see anything on your end saying how much you understand video game design. Why expect it from us? Also, this is a simple debate, that was actually rather friendly for the most part, considering the subject being discussed. I'd say, this thread was rather enjoyable for the most part, with very few flares of egos or arguments.

3. You now state a difference between humans (snipers) and vehicle abilities. You do know that mechs just about emulate humans in a larger form, right? Also, you want to go this route? Stealth bombers. Or, we can continue with a more sci-fi trend... Klingon and Romulan Cloaking fields... If you wish to continue to debate with a "real world" approach, your comments will be invalidated because, well, we don't have giant walking tanks called battlemechs yet to be able to emulate what happens within the game...
This game is based on lore. That lore suggests that certain aspects of the game run a certain way. Such as the AC20 having a shorter range. By real world thinking, it's a larger shell. That means it should travel the farthest ranges. But in BT "science", it's range is limited to a very close and deadly ranges. BT =/= Real World

4. Sniping within this game is a role people can take up. I tend to be more of an "LRM Brawler", or often times a "Support" mech. However, the three "major" classes of combat within mechwarrior tends to be Striker, Brawler, Sniper. (LRMs and other support mechs tend to fall between these classes, or mixes them up.) I could go more in depth about these (and other) roles, however that would not be matching the current concepts of this thread. This thread is trying to discuss ECM, and present the concept that it isn't OP. This opens up most any conversation of ECM and how it effects the game. We can agree or disagree with the subject.

So far, you posts seem to continue to be off topic, or vaguely on topic, within this current thread. I'm not saying you are invalid, but right now (and as I said, I hope I am wrong), you are acting very much like a troll at the moment. You can go ahead and disagree with our points of view. However, I'd suggest not trying to simply dismiss our points without any counter points of your own. If you disagree with our views (which is perfectly fine as we all have our own takes on the subject), explaining why would be a great advantage to you. (Even a "Agree to disagree" isn't bad either.) Right now, I don't even understand your current standing on ECM, as you've been rather vague about it. I'm guessing you are saying it's fine as it is... but I could be incorrect...

(I'd also suggest that, if you have a problem with someone in this thread from another thread, leave it in the other thread. Treat that person like a whole new and different person. This can actually help amend things and keep things peaceful. Why, I had someone I was in a heated debate in one thread, and in another thread we actually agreed. I found out, we get along decently enough. We agree about many game mechanics, but we just strongly disagree about lore in general.)


Edit: Despite several proof reads, things still continued to slip through. Just fixing the escaped bugs...

Edited by Tesunie, 05 June 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Tesunie and the others covered most of the problems you like to ignore, or just don't perceive.

Merchant, on 05 June 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

You made a bad comparison, Snipers are Humans, BattleMechs are vehicles. Try comparing to vehicular stealth, whole different story there. This is not Call of Duty, it is a game about vehicles not Humans.

In this game, we have armor that can remove our visual signature, turn our mechs completely invisible, and at later tech, turn it completely invisible to even heat, and night vision sensors, and radar.

You seem to not understand that the concept still applies, be it vehicles or people. For example, in World of Tanks, You can park your tank behind a bush, and WHAM, it's invisible, that;s a game with vehicles as well. What on earth makes you think vehicles can't be invisible? We have stealth tech on vehicles already, not just planes, but even land vehicles.

Merchant, on 05 June 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

Adapt is ignorant when those saying it come from a completely wrong angle on the subject. Your whole argument is limited to a small amount of games based on Humans being snipers. Again, this is a game about Vehicles, try comparing to other games of a similar nature.

You mean, "come from an angle that disagrees with me". I gave examples of some games, because I trusted you to extrapolate from them, do you honestly want me to list EVERY game out there with sniper roles, and stealth in them? I trusted you'd be able to figure that part out on your own.

Merchant, on 05 June 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

As for game design experience, you made 2 mistakes.

1 - Assuming it involves software. Some people do this because they think games is limited to only computer/console games forgetting it includes board/card/other types. Proven by a recent topic where someone compared MWO to MtG though that is another bad comparison.

2 - Assuming about someone. This is the third time assumption has happened here about me with zero supporting proof. Given the complete lack of proof, I fail to see how any such comments can be given any weight at all. In regards to your comments, my game design credits are my real name being in the list of people who tested and helped create rules for new game products.

1- Game design does involve coding, without it, everything else stays as pretty pictures on the story boards.
2- You're the one that called people out saying that unless they learn about game design, you won't listen to them. I was merely showing you the fallacy in your own statement, and it's hypocrisy. You are trying to hold others to a standard you don't hold yourself to.

Merchant, on 05 June 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

But then we are on an Internet forum, like most forums it uses handles instead of real names. Like most forums, it has its share of immature people like Vanguard, 1453R and you who would rather make assumptions than learn about people.

Complain all you want about forums, and how everyone OTHER than you, is immature, while carrying on with your immature behavior. However, if you want to prove us wrong, then go ahead, tell us about yourself. Think it's too public. PM me, I promise to never share the information with others without your permission, and I'll at least take you more seriously. On the other hand, you can keep doing this.

1453 R, on 05 June 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

Whoops. Looks like you got your quote tags mixed up, Merchant. Either that or Walker and I are different personalities in the same body and I don't know it...

Maybe we're a hive mind!

[Vanguard319]

I'm immature? I'm not the one continuing to make a complete ******* out of myself when everyone is clearly disagreeing with me, and making extremely valid points that can't be effectively countered. You may be older, but age does not mean you are right, nor does it mean you are somehow more mature than the rest of us. (and I've had to deal with enough immature old people in my time tyvm.)

[Tim East]

IraqiWalker, on 05 June 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

1- Game design does involve coding, without it, everything else stays as pretty pictures on the story boards.

This. ^
I can troubleshoot design issues all day, (and I'd like to think rather successfully at that) but I can't code to save my life.