Russ On Matchmaking
#21
Posted 22 May 2014 - 10:10 PM
I don't see a problem with them knowing that MM had to be rewritten for CW. They needed a match maker, or community would complain that they can't play the game.
#22
Posted 22 May 2014 - 11:25 PM
Carbon Guardian, on 22 May 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:
I don't see a problem with them knowing that MM had to be rewritten for CW. They needed a match maker, or community would complain that they can't play the game.
The problem is the vocal minority isn't surprised they need to rewrite the code, we're surprised they haven't started yet, and are in fact starting EARLY for 3/3/3/3 when they told us many times CW was around the corner, even 90 days away at some point, yet the code to allow CW to start won't be ready for at least a month from now, and that, let me repeat, is only because it is being pushed forward for 3/3/3/3.
Why haven't we seen an updated CW timeline?
#23
Posted 22 May 2014 - 11:34 PM
#24
Posted 22 May 2014 - 11:36 PM
Aym, on 22 May 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:
Why haven't we seen an updated CW timeline?
Well it seems like they're confident that they can rewrite the code for MM fairly quickly (~ one month apparently) so that pretty much negates your argument about, "when they told us many times CW was around the corner, even 90 days away at some point". If they don't see rewriting the MM as taking a great deal of time, then they could have been saving this for when they were in the final stages of CW, but since UI had so heavily impacted the release of CW, then the MM kept being put on the back-burner. Now they have a reason to push on ahead with it, that isn't CW related.
Edited by Monsoon, 22 May 2014 - 11:37 PM.
#25
Posted 22 May 2014 - 11:37 PM
Carbon Guardian, on 22 May 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:
Carbon Guardian, on 22 May 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:
Carbon Guardian, on 22 May 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:
Carbon Guardian, on 22 May 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:
BWA HA HA HA *choke* HA HA HA HA *deep breath* HA HA HA HA HA *splutter* HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Edited by Appogee, 22 May 2014 - 11:42 PM.
#26
Posted 22 May 2014 - 11:41 PM
This community has been trying to organise itself for over 2 years with no tools and in some cases actual road blocks to doing so.
We have been asking for tools to do stuff for ages, now that we are finally getting some (private matches, queue counter) things are going to get moving.
Lesson Russ. Give us more tools, not less.
#27
Posted 22 May 2014 - 11:41 PM
"Our MM is crap, we always knew it is crap, we were told countless times it is crap, but we still forced you to play with this crap for 1.5 years. People responsible for this crap couldn't do crap, so we now assign another person to sort out the crap."
Well ... good luck Karl, you seem like a person who actually wants smth to get done.
#29
Posted 23 May 2014 - 01:46 AM
The Clan releases are going to be very, very ugly affairs.
#30
Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:27 AM
#31
Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:31 AM
Having said that, we all know the MM was broken, and even though it was supposed to balance weight it never did and often had very mismatched ELO to boot. Of course, I had assumed this was a function of the low queue count but maybe it really is the code (which is kind of a good thing).
#32
Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:45 AM
But the 3/3/3/3 limit is not the answer. You don't get a better score because you're using a heavier mech.
The tonnage mismatch between 2 teams is an aggravating factor not the root of the problem.
I must admit though that 12 assaults vs 12 mediums will not end well so maybe class limit are needed but not to this extend.
The real problem as already stated is the difference of skills between players of the same team.
Actually, with the current matchmaker, this 2 match should be even :
1st match :
Team A = 12 players with an average ELO of 1400, ELO team sum up = 16800
Team B = 12 players with an average ELO of 1400, ELO team sum up = 16800
2nd match
Team A = 12 players with an average ELO of 1400, ELO team sum up = 16800
Team B = 4 players with an average ELO of 2500, 4 players with an average ELO of 1400 and 4 players with an average ELO of 300, , ELO team sum up = 16800
Guess what ?
Yeah maybe the first match will end with a 12-4 score, but it will be a landslide victory, one team slowly taking the advantage until the other can't fight back.
The second match ? A lame roflstomp ending in less than 6 minutes because it's not a 12v12 match but rather a 8vs12 : the 4 300 ELO players will get crushed in the first minutes of the match leaving their team with a missing lance.
Now why the new MM is better ?
If you read carefully the post about the launch module (http://mwomercs.com/...93-feb-27-2014/) and especially the paragraph "What the Solo Public Match Queue Looks Like", you will understand that for every match there is a ELO bucket associated and so the 24 players in the match are in the same ELO bucket.
And while the ELO sum up of each team should be different, the match is balanced because the 24 player have roughly the same skill.
Thanks to that PGI ditch the rule of mixing high ELO player with low ELO payer in order to have an average ELO score which is easier to match.
The match were better not only because of the 3/3/3/3 but because both team had *REALLY* the same skill across the board.
TL;DR
The current matchmaker only consider the ELO sump up of each team to balance a match. <= BAD
The new matchmaker only takes player with roughly the same skill to balance a match. <= GOOD
#33
Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:01 AM
SgtKinCaiD, on 23 May 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:
But the 3/3/3/3 limit is not the answer. You don't get a better score because you're using a heavier mech.
The tonnage mismatch between 2 teams is an aggravating factor not the root of the problem.
I must admit though that 12 assaults vs 12 mediums will not end well so maybe class limit are needed but not to this extend.
The real problem as already stated is the difference of skills between players of the same team.
Actually, with the current matchmaker, this 2 match should be even :
1st match :
Team A = 12 players with an average ELO of 1400, ELO team sum up = 16800
Team B = 12 players with an average ELO of 1400, ELO team sum up = 16800
2nd match
Team A = 12 players with an average ELO of 1400, ELO team sum up = 16800
Team B = 4 players with an average ELO of 2500, 4 players with an average ELO of 1400 and 4 players with an average ELO of 300, , ELO team sum up = 16800
Guess what ?
Yeah maybe the first match will end with a 12-4 score, but it will be a landslide victory, one team slowly taking the advantage until the other can't fight back.
The second match ? A lame roflstomp ending in less than 6 minutes because it's not a 12v12 match but rather a 8vs12 : the 4 300 ELO players will get crushed in the first minutes of the match leaving their team with a missing lance.
Now why the new MM is better ?
If you read carefully the post about the launch module (http://mwomercs.com/...93-feb-27-2014/) and especially the paragraph "What the Solo Public Match Queue Looks Like", you will understand that for every match there is a ELO bucket associated and so the 24 players in the match are in the same ELO bucket.
And while the ELO sum up of each team should be different, the match is balanced because the 24 player have roughly the same skill.
Thanks to that PGI ditch the rule of mixing high ELO player with low ELO payer in order to have an average ELO score which is easier to match.
The match were better not only because of the 3/3/3/3 but because both team had *REALLY* the same skill across the board.
TL;DR
The current matchmaker only consider the ELO sump up of each team to balance a match. <= BAD
The new matchmaker only takes player with roughly the same skill to balance a match. <= GOOD
You SO smart!
#36
Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:31 AM
I look forward to the upcoming clan invasion, and can't wait to see how well thought out it will be.
#37
Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:33 AM
#38
Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:40 AM
I play several games that are very similar to this. I'm not a big stat watcher, however I am aware of my stats so I know generally how I'm doing. I tend to do mediocre to decent. This is the only game that uses an ELO style matchmaking, which you would think would average everyone out to about a 50% win/loss rate given enough time. However I've noticed that progressively with each wipe of the stats I end up getting significantly worse stat wise. Maybe I've just been unlucky, but I honestly haven't been logging in much as I end up getting frustrated with constant lopsided losses.
I had high hopes for 3/3/3/3 fixing this, but that broke, and it seams to have gotten even worse. Now I have hope again that a complete overhaul of the matchmaker may make the game fun for me to play again. Thank you PGI for being open about this, it made me not walk away. Just please keep it simple. The more complicated you make it, the more chances to break or have outliers it will have.
Edit: quote fail.
Edited by Rallog, 23 May 2014 - 04:41 AM.
#39
Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:43 AM
#40
Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:55 AM
Bartholomew bartholomew, on 22 May 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:
Solo puggers are not going to do CW anyways.
Define CW before you make sweeping statements like that
If you mean private matches with no effect on the world map your probably correct.
If you mean solo puggers don't want to have any effect on the interactive galactic map then I have to say that your talking crap as the only reason I have stayed and tolerated dull arena matches, brainless skirmish death mode, and continued to fund this game is in the hope this autumn there is something worth fighting over
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