145 replies to this topic

[Diablobo]

As I am watching the videos of last week's tournament, I am surprised at how many Dragon Slayers I see. I don't understand why they don't hardly use the other variants.

The only difference I can see between it and the other Victors is an extra 10 degrees of arm yaw and a 400 max engine instead of 385. Is it really that big a difference?

[mostnotweak]

poptart meta

[Deathlike]

The meta agrees with the DS.

The Dragon Slayer takes what is most prominent in the Highlander-733C (slightly higher torso energy hardpoint) and stuffs it into an already mobile platform in the Victor (plus the 9K doesn't have a 2nd ballistic slot... it gets 2 more lame JJs as compensation).

Edited by Deathlike, 23 May 2014 - 04:17 PM.

[Valkyrie Brynhildr]

They fear the Rathalos in Terra Therma and Jhen Morhan in the Desert and Canyons.

How else are you going to be able to slay dragons?

[Mycrus]

not enough dragons...

[El Bandito]

DS' energy and ballistic hard points are right next to each other--hence it is much easier to pop off a pin point snap shot, when compared to other Victors. Other Victors can field AC20 or dual UAC5s though.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 May 2014 - 06:52 PM.

[FupDup]

Because:

[darkkterror]

Who else is going to keep all the Dragons away? Surely you wouldn't want to see any Dragons invading our battlezones.

[Bishop Steiner]

Diablobo, on 23 May 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

As I am watching the videos of last week's tournament, I am surprised at how many Dragon Slayers I see. I don't understand why they don't hardly use the other variants.

The only difference I can see between it and the other Victors is an extra 10 degrees of arm yaw and a 400 max engine instead of 385. Is it really that big a difference?

All weapons stacked in the RT/RA, more JJ efficient than a Highlander. Allows it to use a standard engine, and use the entire left side of the mech as a damage soak. Use armlock as needed for instant weapon convergence and you too can poptart like the High Rollers.

Got to admit, this tournament is doing wonders to remind me why I don't actually care anymore. Candy Crush is less repetitive than high level comp play theses days...and I don't even blame the high level players. PGI broke the bloody mechanics, they are just taking advantage of it.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[YueFei]

Also, the weapons all being on the right side means if you corner peek on the right, you need only expose half of your mech. That means you can step in and out of cover more quickly and still clear all weapons to fire.

The other Victors would have to step completely out, exposing the entire body, taking *twice* as long to step out and fire, and *twice* as long to step back into cover.

When the competition is as tight as it is, every millisecond advantage will be grasped at.

[Diablobo]

That is a good point about the right side weapon mounts being easier to peek and shoot.

The only trouble I have with that is when that RT goes you lose pretty much all of your weaponry. I like to spread my weapons around so that losing one location doesn't cripple the mech's effectiveness.

I'll keep the RT thing in mind next time I face a Dragon Slayer. It's just like an Atlas; take out the RT and his fangs are pulled.

Edited by Diablobo, 23 May 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The only trouble I have with that is when that RT goes you lose pretty much all of your weaponry

Which just means you can run XL because if you have no weapons youre useless anyway.

[YueFei]

Diablobo, on 23 May 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

That is a good point about the right side weapon mounts being easier to peek and shoot.

The only trouble I have with that is when that RT goes, you lose pretty much all of your weaponry. I like to spread my weapons around so that losing one location doesn't cripple the mech's effectiveness.

I'll keep the RT thing in mind next time I face a Dragon Slayer. It's just like an Atlas; take out the RT and his fangs are pulled.

It's not a disadvantage if the pilot of the Dragonslayer shields his RT by using the left arm and left shoulder to soak hits.

The side-torsos of a Victor are also relatively small and harder to hit, especially against a pilot who is actively twisting, turning, jumping, and stutter-stepping.

Trying to deliberately aim for the RT can actually result in a complete whiff if the Dragonslayer pilot twists right at the moment you fire, especially firing at 500+ meter range. A shot that's well aimed and would've hit the RT can end up flying off into space as a result.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 23 May 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Which just means you can run XL because if you have no weapons youre useless anyway.

Except.... you can't use your left torso to soak anymore then.

[Bishop Steiner]

Diablobo, on 23 May 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

That is a good point about the right side weapon mounts being easier to peek and shoot.

The only trouble I have with that is when that RT goes you lose pretty much all of your weaponry. I like to spread my weapons around so that losing one location doesn't cripple the mech's effectiveness.

I'll keep the RT thing in mind next time I face a Dragon Slayer. It's just like an Atlas; take out the RT and his fangs are pulled.

In a more open terrain mech, that is usually a good approach, but for a good jump sniper, the whole game is built more an situational awareness than the actual weapons or mech, even. The Meta is born, because the best of the best distill the game mechanics down to their most basic elements, and anything broken is exploited to the max. The art of jumpsniping (while boring IMO) is all about knowing when to jump, snapping your weapons on target for that millisecond it takes to fire, then IMMEDIATELY snapping that left side back, so that on the chance any return fire does head their way, it is taken on unimportant systems, anyhow.

Heck, i don't jumpsnipe, but have had to master this skill, because 2 of my favorite mechs, have all their weapons stuck on one side (YLW and GRF-1N). Problem is I run XLs, so I can really only afford to lose the left arm, but the same basic tactic still works.

[Khobai]

Quote

Except.... you can't use your left torso to soak anymore then.

You shouldnt be using your torso to soak anyway you should be using the arm. So I dont see that as a problem.

[Diablobo]

You can twist and turn all you like to dodge fire, but some of us happen to know how to fire when you turn to take YOUR shot.

[Prezimonto]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

All weapons stacked in the RT/RA, more JJ efficient than a Highlander. Allows it to use a standard engine, and use the entire left side of the mech as a damage soak. Use armlock as needed for instant weapon convergence and you too can poptart like the High Rollers.

Got to admit, this tournament is doing wonders to remind me why I don't actually care anymore. Candy Crush is less repetitive than high level comp play theses days...and I don't even blame the high level players. PGI broke the bloody mechanics, they are just taking advantage of it.

I've stopped caring about comp play in this game. At least in League there's some really diverse skill and tactics being applied team to team and season to season. This game's had one main tactic and build style for over a year at the high levels. Only the exact mech's used have changed, but the gameplay itself hasn't honestly been touched much.

[Bishop Steiner]

Diablobo, on 23 May 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

You can twist and turn all you like to dodge fire, but some of us happen to know how to fire when you turn to take YOUR shot.

that may well be so. That would put you in the extreme minority.

Poptarting doesn't make one god mode. But doing it, as mentioned is the single highest reward to risk tactic in the game, has been for over a year, and no, it's not even close. 1 or 2 of the people on your team may well be deadeyes like you claim. After the Poptarts decimate the other 10 on your team and descend on you 8-9 vs 1-2, it really doesn't matter.

These builds, and this tactic are the dominant build for a reason. Simply put, 9 times out of 10, it will succeed. The High End Comp play bears this out, the tournament has been baring it out. So gnash your teeth against it all you will. I don't care for the meta, the tactic, or the stale gameplay in MWO, myself. Doesn't change the reality of what is far and away the most successful build/tactic in the game.

And no, for the record, I haven't touched my DS in ages. I was running 2 AC5 and 2 LL long before the DS was the focus of the Meta, and when 2 PPC and an AC10 were the choice or armament. Once The Meta shifted, I chose to go the other direction. Like yourself, more times than not, I can nail and overcome a Poptart. His 3 Friends, tend to pose a bit more issue, but are not insurmountable, usually. But that is also because there is a HUGE difference between a Poptart, and a top tier Jump Sniper. By all means, feel free to demonstrate your impeccable gunnery vs the cats in SJR, or Clan Wolf, amongst others. Challenge JaegerXII to a 1v1 and tell us who it went.

[YueFei]

Diablobo, on 23 May 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

You can twist and turn all you like to dodge fire, but some of us happen to know how to fire when you turn to take YOUR shot.

These guys aren't n00bs who circle-jerk around in the open so you can watch them and wait until they twist towards you. They're using cover as much as possible. They'll peek up over a hill exposing only the head, and if you happen to not be looking directly at them, they'll lift on their jets, get their shot off, and immediately twist while their shot is still in the air. If you *do* happen to be looking at them, they'll release jets and dive back behind cover. If you catch them in transit, they'll be fully-shielding as they move to the next piece of cover. Not to mention that with the snappy initial lift of jump jets, some shots you fire at their torso can end up hitting their leg.... but deliberately aiming at their legs can sometimes cause some of your shots to miss if you fire right as they jump.

Look at it this way: NBA players sometimes miss free-throws. And there's no one opposing them when they make that shot. Anyone can *say* they'll just shoot an opponent where it hurts. In practice it's much more difficult to execute than that. Defensive piloting is a real thing. Among top pilots, when they fight each other, it's rare for the fight to end with mechs cored/stripped and completely untouched anywhere else.