80 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

You know, it has been suggested many times to PGI to reward players for capping in Conquest.

Nothing came out from that... so clearly they just want more people to play a variation of Skirmish.

It also doesn't help that cap points cap really slow.

Until PGI actually takes a serious look at Conquest (they won't for now because of the Clan packs), this mode will stay in mediocrity for a while.

[Ursh]

If the points capped faster, then lights could turn it around at the end of a match where the enemy only has heavies/assaults left.

Now, the enemy can generally just grab 1-2 more of the caps that are close together and ride it out. Also, you have to sit so long to cap something that a medium or fast heavy can probably make it to your cap to start putting fire on you.

I thought the cap timers were fine when conquest first came out, because shifting caps made it a much riskier proposition to run to the middle and play last man standing, because you'd be down 4 caps to 1 really quickly and by the time you won the brawl the other team would have an almost insurmountable points advantage. With the slow-capping though, that just doesn't happen so much anymore.

I agreed with the assault cap timer being raised, but I think it was a serious mistake for conquest, because it reduced the risk of losing if you decided to do the blob of death against the enemy team.

[Zolaz]

Why are you so upset? PGI implemented some changes to Conquest to make the game more Team Death Match. That is what happened when PGI increased the capture mechanics. Why are you complaining, PGI totally knows what they are doing.

lol

[Koniks]

I think recency bias is affecting your post, OP. The faction challenge rewards kills this weekend so that's what people are pursuing.

I find most weeks people follow the incentives of conquest pretty well. They try to get 400+ resource points and all the kills because that maxes out the C-bill rewards.

[Baltasar]

It's generally more efficient to kill the other team in conquest rather than just cap the points and have running battles. I think a lot of people play conquest instead of skirmish for the sole reason it does force the team to move a little and not camp the entire game. Basically they killed the game mode before it was even launched back when they nerfed the rewards for the capture mechanic with assault because people were "abusing" it. Since then, it's just not profitable to capture the base or points any more. Too many times I have played my light on conquest and did my job of capturing the points and winning the match only to get jack squat for cbills for my time and it's a little depressing. Add that to them upping the capture time on all maps (not just the larger ones that could deal with it) then it really just become more efficient to kill the other team and still win.

When they make it worth while to play the game mode instead of kill then you'll see less of the main battle taking place (then you'll get complaints of cap warrior online again probably). Oh well, I don't expect to see any change any time soon.

[Varik Ronain]

You know we have a launch module for a reason.. I always remember to untick conquest before i start my pugging

[EvilCow]

Well, most players knew this already but the ongoing tournament proved that conquest is conceptually flawed, it was not different than skirmish.

MWLL's Terrain Control was what conquest should be, a far more enjoyable game mode, you could kill and kill and kill and still lose the game. Killing was only functional to capping (or denying capping) and a minor score advantage.

Edited by EvilCow, 26 May 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Deathlike]

I had a tourney match that had NO CAPPING going on... in Tourmaline no less.

ggclose Conquest

[Wanzer MkII]

Wait, there are ways to win other than killing all your opponents? News to me.

[Almond Brown]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 May 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

I say the team that wins by the primary objective should DOUBLE whatever rewards.

And a Win by the Secondary method nets everyone only 75% of rewards.

[Deathlike]

Almond Brown, on 26 May 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

And a Win by the Secondary method nets everyone only 75% of rewards.

When you play to win, that is irrelevant.

[Almond Brown]

Almighty Cico, on 26 May 2014 - 03:55 AM, said:

I brought atlas ddc with powerfull brawler build and i should cap with that? Especially with 63 kph. PGI should give more cbills for caps and I will cap, with all damage and kills + salvage its better than cap something...

Nope. But when your 6 Lights go death-balling with you and you lose to 12 dead, something is fooked up bad. Just un-check Conquest and just play Assault or Deathball.

[Almond Brown]

Chemie, on 26 May 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

When they increased the cap times, everyone just switched to heavy / assaults making all three game modes TDM. Even 3 lights running as a pack can't cap quickly enough...and of course the turrets just made assault mode a skirmish on a reduced size map.

3/3/3/3 should help on conquest but skirmish and especially assault will still be TDM.

And you remember WHY they changed the Cap times right? Capping was to fast. All these deals sound the same as the tale of the "3 Bears" ffs. Everything is either Too Hot, Too Cold or... wait a minute. We seem to have lost the Third Bowl. lol

Edited by Almond Brown, 26 May 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Zolaz, on 26 May 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Why are you so upset? PGI implemented some changes to Conquest to make the game more Team Death Match. That is what happened when PGI increased the capture mechanics. Why are you complaining, PGI totally knows what they are doing.

lol

They WHINED before the changes, they WHINE after the changes and they will WHINE after any other changes.

And many wonder why they do not seem to listen to the Players? What would be the perfect Cap times eh? Come on, you Armchair Devs types have all the answers right?

Deathlike, on 26 May 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

When you play to win, that is irrelevant.

Then the Game Mode is always irrelevant, other than some have 2 choices with which to Win by.

Edited by Almond Brown, 26 May 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Conquest should be a lights only battle mode......

Its a good thing we can turn off game modes....

[Gyrok]

Jherek C, on 26 May 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't get why this is such a problem for so many players. When I lost Conquest, it was mostly because of one of these reasons:

- 1st we collected most resources but the team was killed
- 2nd we been the team with far the most kills but we had like 300 vs 750 resources

People, conquest is the game mode with the most clear tactic objectives.
Skirmish and Assault are rather free how you win and you can coordinate your team the one or the other way, but in Conquest it is always just one way to go.

Some send the lights off to cap, that's as much as they learned already, but now the heavies run into brawl and get killed one after another because they have no lights supporting. The other match the team runs after kills and suddenly loses chasing the last surviving squirrels that collected all 750 resources.

There are some quite easy rules of thumb in Conquest:
- don't hunt for kills
If you disabled a mech for instance, let the stumb zombie wander, it doesn't matter. Go back into cover and look for the next target
- stay alife
You don't have to kill anyone.
- use the terrain for cover
Don't get yourself crippled up or destroyed because you hunted that one heavy that was such a easy kill while his buddies peel off your armor.

LIGHTS CAP, HEAVIES KEEP THE ENEMY BUSY WHILE STAYING ALIFE

It is as easy as this.

When you die, the enemy will go after the lights while they cap and it will be an easy run for them. If your lights wing the heavies into brawling the enemy, they will be destroyed first and you will not have the speed to circle the map and collect resources.
And, you get paid for everything. I won matches in my light with having 0 damage points on my score but loads of collected resouces and I got roughly the same amount of c-bills like in Skirmish mode, where I have kills and kill assists.

Silly goose!

Conquest = skirmish with stupid stuff in the way of the fight

Assault = skirmish with turrets

Skirmish = skirmish with no gimmicks

Clearer?

[Davers]

Jherek C, on 26 May 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Atlas is not meant to cap, if you read my post you see that I described your role there. The atlas, other assaults and heavy also the heavier medium's roles are important as the light's role: They keep the enemy busy, especially at the centered cap points while lights can circle around the map and take care of the other spots.

So Assaults and heavy mechs have all the fun while lights sit in little boxes and earn next to nothing on a win. No wonder I have seen light usage at 9%.

[Percimes]

Rewards always end up killing the fun in the long run.

[Deathlike]

Davers, on 26 May 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

So Assaults and heavy mechs have all the fun while lights sit in little boxes and earn next to nothing on a win. No wonder I have seen light usage at 9%.

At this point, running a light in a tourney is a chance to win some glory w/o being antagonized for being a light mech.

[Trauglodyte]

As much as I hate to say it, sometimes, it is actually better to cap two, protect those two, and simply kill the other team that is too stupid to realize that they have the game in hand due to resource count. You'd be really surprised how many people simply aren't smart enough to grasp that a resource count game doesn't need to devolve into a war of attrition. But, every game, you've got people pushing nodes when it isn't necessary and putting themselves in awful positions just asking to get whacked.