205 replies to this topic

[mack sabbath]

I'd wager 5000 MC that if strike damage didn't count on your epeen end of match screen, half the people packing them would stop.

[El Bandito]

Bhael Fire, on 28 May 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Yeah, you're right... we shouldn't have module options. Let's just have 3 modules and call it a day.

There are 33-36 modules (if you count the MC version) in MWO currently, and 5 more are coming with the Clans. That's over FORTY modules.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 May 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[Mystere]

Ultimatum X, on 28 May 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

Trying to pretend that this is some high skill module isn't really fooling any of us, it is in fact a very low skill barrier large effect consumable.

Actually, as far as I am concerned, it's both stupidly easy to use and stupidly easier to avoid. But, either way, it's a great antidote to things like poptarts and murderballs. And which is why I like strikes just they way they are.

[mack sabbath]

El Bandito, on 28 May 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

There are 35 modules in MWO currently, and 5 more are coming with the Clans. That's FORTY modules.

Remember, he's L33T and all, and has yet to be damaged by any strikes!

Edited by Stevie Ray Vaughan, 28 May 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Stevie Ray Vaughan, on 28 May 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Remember, he's L33T and all, and has yet to be damaged by any strikes!

I said killed.... Never killed by one. I get damaged by them all the time. You don't have to be a good player to move out of the way when you see red smoke.

[Nyte Kitsune]

Watch the VLog #4, PGI is looking into Artillery Strikes and how OP They are as well as Airstrikes Headshoting alot. "Hopefully" they'll be balanced better, one thing the Vlog mentioned was making it a wider spread and doing less damage. I personally think they should be limited to 1 Artillery and Airstrike Per-Team, Per-Match, instead of teams relying on them to cause damage and learn to pilot their mechs. After all this is MECHWARRIOR ONLINE not ARTILLERY ONLINE.

Edited by Sstaan, 28 May 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 May 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

We would need to know the enemy HAS arty to begin with and we would not know that till it has launched.

And that's the way I would like it to be. In other words, the counter should only be effective after the first strike. That also means if you want to counter both artillery and air strikes, then you need to bring both counters.

Bhael Fire, on 28 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

As soon as the artillery or air strike is called and the red smoke goes up, the player has 4-seconds to activate the defense module's orbital strike to take out the artillery or air unit before it fires.

No. See above.

Edited by Mystere, 28 May 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[El Bandito]

Sstaan, on 28 May 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

Watch the VLog #4, PGI is looking into Artillery Strikes and how OP They are as well as Airstrikes Headshoting alot. "Hopefully" they'll be balanced better, one thing the Vlog mentioned was making it a wider spread and doing less damage.

Took them long enough. Any competent balance director would have done that within a month after the 40 damage buff, or failing that, after the first faction tourney. But we are stuck with Paul...

Edited by El Bandito, 28 May 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[Mystere]

Biaxialrain, on 28 May 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Also, there is no camping in MW:O, it's called defending a position, usually one that gives you a tactical advantage. Learn how to play and drop this mindset.

And I want the ability to force the enemy to rapidly vacate -- or else -- their current position, precisely one of the things artillery is good at doing.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 28 May 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

And I want the ability to force the enemy to rapidly vacate -- or else -- their current position, precisely one of the things artillery is good at doing.

And nerfing the damage to as low as 20 will not change that. It will still make the enemy vacate the premises unless they like getting pounded by AoE AC20--but it will bring it more in line with other popular modules.

Also, I know you personally advocate Artillery Strike to have "realistic damage" (because it is an arty!) but that's just silly and unbalanced without adding in "realistic flight time"(because it is an arty!).

http://mwomercs.com/...artillery-like/

Edited by El Bandito, 28 May 2014 - 12:28 PM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 May 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

2. Devaluing strikes should happen, because they are the top module choice, period. We need variety in this game and strikes in current form is detrimental to that. Besides, damage nerf is coming this way, based on the dev log 4.

In other words, instead of improving the other modules, you want all modules to equally suck instead. Now that's a really good solution. In fact, why don't we make all weapons fire for 1 damage. That should eliminate most if not all weapon balance problems.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 28 May 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

In other words, instead of improving the other modules, you want all modules to equally suck instead. Now that's a really good solution. In fact, why don't we make all weapons fire for 1 damage. That should eliminate most if not all weapon balance problems.

I am just being realistic about the time and effort it requires for PGI to buff other 34 modules to the level of strikes, as opposed to nerfing 2 modules only. Apparently you are not.

Plus, your weapon comparison makes no sense. Modules are supposed to have much much less effect on the gameplay than weapons. Yet we have strikes that causes more damage than many players' damage output in a match.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 May 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[Mystere]

Stevie Ray Vaughan, on 28 May 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Remember, he's L33T and all, and has yet to be damaged by any strikes!

Translation: You have no real argument to give and as such are just resorting to an ad hominem.

[WarHippy]

Any reduction in damage, or increase in cool down will make them useless and/or not worth taking. If they need to make a change I say tie it to command console so that you can't equip the module without a command console installed on the mech, however the module should have 2-3 charges on it so that it can be used more than once. Now before anyone freaks out about the increased number of strikes per module also make it so there is a temporary smoke trail from the mech that called in the strike. This allows the enemy to know who has the ability to call in strikes, and gives them a valuable target to focus while at the same time giving friendlies a vip to protect. Something like that gives more flavor to the match while still keeping the strikes useful.

[El Bandito]

WarHippy, on 28 May 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Any reduction in damage, or increase in cool down will make them useless and/or not worth taking.

That's a personal opinion. I personally will still take the strikes on my mechs even with 10 second arrival time, or lower damage, because the displacement factor is invaluable.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 May 2014 - 12:48 PM.

[Gyrok]

Arty is fine as it is...if it cost in line with the effectiveness. If strikes cost 300k cbills each...then it would be about right. 300k cbills is about what it should cost for ~250-400 free damage.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 May 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

And nerfing the damage to as low as 20 will not change that. It will still make the enemy vacate the premises unless they like getting pounded by AoE AC20--but it will bring it more in line with other popular modules.

At only 20 damage and with no possibility of getting killed via a rare headshot, I'd probably risk it if I were riding anything other than a light, especially if that meant I get to keep my tactical advantage.

El Bandito, on 28 May 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Also, I know you personally advocate Artillery Strike to have "realistic damage" (because it is an arty!) but that's just silly and unbalanced without adding in "realistic flight time"(because it is an arty!).

http://mwomercs.com/...artillery-like/

If you are implying that I am being extremely consistent with strikes, then all I can do is thank you for acknowledging it.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 28 May 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

At only 20 damage and with no possibility of getting killed via a rare headshot, I'd probably risk it if I were riding anything other than a light, especially if that meant I get to keep my tactical advantage. If you are implying that I am being extremely consistent with strikes, then all I can do is thank you for acknowledging it.

As if only one enemy brings a strike in a 12 v12 match. Hell, my meta DS has both strikes equipped, because they are that good.

I'm basically saying that you have very unrealistic expectations and over simplistic views. No matter, the arty strike damage and concentration nerf is coming.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 May 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 May 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

No matter, the arty strike damage and concentration nerf is coming.

Hmm, I wonder if I should return the favor and start an insurrection against the incoming nerf.

Edited by Mystere, 28 May 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[WarHippy]

El Bandito, on 28 May 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

That's a personal opinion. I personally will still take the strikes on my mechs even with 10 second arrival time, or lower damage, because the displacement factor is invaluable.

It really isn't opinion, or at least not the lower damage part because we have had lower damage before and almost nobody used them because they were junk even at 30 damage. That is why they upped it to 40 to begin with. As for arrival time that isn't the same as a longer cool down that I mentioned, but even then a long arrival time will also make them pretty pointless for anything other than a few seconds of making the enemy shift position in particular when it is rather easy to avoid as is.