105 replies to this topic

[Zuesacoatl]

Tichorius Davion, on 28 May 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

Haha! My 02 Nov 2011 buddy.

Man...we've been here a while.

No doubt, it has been a journey to say the least lol

[Green Mamba]

Here is the Video. Host Starts the Question of Costs of Games about 18:00 minutes into the Video in Which Bryan answers this 60k Generally for Mechs and from 70k up to 250K for Maps with various Timeframes and Dev numbers

[DEN_Ninja]

Karl Streiger, on 28 May 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

Yep some of us will be loyal for 3 years - when CW should be implemented - lets see how many of us remain after

Zuesacoatl, on 28 May 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

No doubt, it has been a journey to say the least lol

No kidding. I am staying on this boat whether it sinks or floats though.


Also... Let's reiterate. Back in 2010-2011 no studio was willing to pick up the MW IP.

If MWO died today you'd have almost no chance to see another MW game for probably a decade or more if you are lucky. I like MWO anyways so "that's uh just like your uh opinion man".

[Karl Streiger]

Tichorius Davion, on 28 May 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

No kidding. I am staying on this boat whether it sinks or floats though.

Not just you - until they unplug the server - or somebody has to remove my cold hands from the keyboard.
this is unhealthy loyalty of a diehard fan of the IP (although when they call it MechaRoboRumble and the Catapult a Scorpion and the Atlas a HERC and the Hunchback a Bloker - or anything else - i admit i will be gone)

[Livewyr]

Indeed, Bishop, indeed.

*toots own horn for a minute* back in Beta when PPC Heat was a huge topic, with the masses calling for a PPC Heat nerf, I felt like one of few who argued that the PPC Heat needs to stay the same because it is small, light, and unlimited in ammunition.. Heat was the balance factor.

Low and behold.. they got their way anyways, and the heat went down to 8 or 9 (don't remember now) and the PPC stalker was born. Instead of trying to put the heat back up in the first place, they went straight for Ghost Heat (and put the heat back up at the same time.)

We can thank that for Ghost Heat.

--------------------------------------------

I wish the devs would communicate more, it was nice even as it was brief talking to Paul during the attempted 2nd roll-out of 3/3/3/3.. it obviously wasn't working as intended, and he told me right then and there that it wasn't going the way it should and he and the crew had ideas as to how to work it out. (And I gave him one of my own.. shameless plug.)

Did that make 3/3/3/3 work out better? Obviously not. Did I feel better about Dev attentiveness to the rollout of the feature? Much.

I would love it if the Devs came out with a thread "here's our idea for resolving x issue: We will look into well-read, short but sweet posts regarding concerns or additional suggestions." (With of course a disclaimer that your suggestion may or may not be implemented.) And then to add icing to it, the Comm manager could compile a list of qualifying ideas (which they already do) and add to it the Dev's comments regarding the overarching ideas. I.E: "Issue with suggestion 'y' is that it is too resource heavy and would slow the servers."

Doing that before beginning the programming on the feature could go a long way in preventing ham-handed "fixes" like Ghost Heat.

I know.. I know. I'm dreaming.

[Zuesacoatl]

Tichorius Davion, on 28 May 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

No kidding. I am staying on this boat whether it sinks or floats though.


Also... Let's reiterate. Back in 2010-2011 no studio was willing to pick up the MW IP.

If MWO died today you'd have almost no chance to see another MW game for probably a decade or more if you are lucky. I like MWO anyways so "that's uh just like your uh opinion man".

agreed, I would have stopped at the founders if I had plans to stop or give up mid journey. I came in knowing that this is probably BT/MWs last hope of a real game, and I will do all I can to make it succeede, even poor in the big amounts of money I have for the Founders, Overlord, and now Masa clan pack to do my part in adding to their development funds. People need to realize this sad truth, no one wants this volatile IP, or the very outspoken community that comes with it. I see so many peeps talk about MWLL, but I remember the forums there, there will always be the NEVER happy group with products that they did not make. They will always hate others visions, the only problem is, the MW/BT community seems to have a lot more of those people than many other IPs out there, and Devs do not want to deal with that.

Point out its flaws, give what you think is constructive critisism, but in the end, understand, if you put money into this game, you are putting money into the pockets of someone trying to bring their vision to life, just realize that their vision may not align with yours. I understood that from day one, and spend money knowing that I may not see exactly what I want to see.

[DEN_Ninja]

Livewyr, on 28 May 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Indeed, Bishop, indeed.

*toots own horn for a minute* back in Beta when PPC Heat was a huge topic, with the masses calling for a PPC Heat nerf, I felt like one of few who argued that the PPC Heat needs to stay the same because it is small, light, and unlimited in ammunition.. Heat was the balance factor.

Low and behold.. they got their way anyways, and the heat went down to 8 or 9 (don't remember now) and the PPC stalker was born. Instead of trying to put the heat back up in the first place, they went straight for Ghost Heat (and put the heat back up at the same time.)

We can thank that for Ghost Heat.

--------------------------------------------

I wish the devs would communicate more, it was nice even as it was brief talking to Paul during the attempted 2nd roll-out of 3/3/3/3.. it obviously wasn't working as intended, and he told me right then and there that it wasn't going the way it should and he and the crew had ideas as to how to work it out. (And I gave him one of my own.. shameless plug.)

Did that make 3/3/3/3 work out better? Obviously not. Did I feel better about Dev attentiveness to the rollout of the feature? Much.

I would love it if the Devs came out with a thread "here's our idea for resolving x issue: We will look into well-read, short but sweet posts regarding concerns or additional suggestions." (With of course a disclaimer that your suggestion may or may not be implemented.) And then to add icing to it, the Comm manager could compile a list of qualifying ideas (which they already do) and add to it the Dev's comments regarding the overarching ideas. I.E: "Issue with suggestion 'y' is that it is too resource heavy and would slow the servers."

Doing that before beginning the programming on the feature could go a long way in preventing ham-handed "fixes" like Ghost Heat.

I know.. I know. I'm dreaming.

I actually enjoy that Ghost Heat did in fact curb the high damage pin point alpha builds to oblivion. Realistically it isn't ghost heat that is the problem as far as I am concerned. It is just the heat system in general.

When you allow for increased heat capacity AND dissipation you just open up a doorway to the high damage crap. It is harsh to make it so that every weapon system runs hot but MW/BT is not a that casual.

Zuesacoatl, on 28 May 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

agreed, I would have stopped at the founders if I had plans to stop or give up mid journey. I came in knowing that this is probably BT/MWs last hope of a real game, and I will do all I can to make it succeede, even poor in the big amounts of money I have for the Founders, Overlord, and now Masa clan pack to do my part in adding to their development funds. People need to realize this sad truth, no one wants this volatile IP, or the very outspoken community that comes with it. I see so many peeps talk about MWLL, but I remember the forums there, there will always be the NEVER happy group with products that they did not make. They will always hate others visions, the only problem is, the MW/BT community seems to have a lot more of those people than many other IPs out there, and Devs do not want to deal with that.

Point out its flaws, give what you think is constructive critisism, but in the end, understand, if you put money into this game, you are putting money into the pockets of someone trying to bring their vision to life, just realize that their vision may not align with yours. I understood that from day one, and spend money knowing that I may not see exactly what I want to see.

Case in point, look at the scrapshow that is /r/mwo vs /r/outreachhpg that just exploded into a massive flame war on all sides. Good to know we all act like reasonable adults and not 16 year old adolescent boys on the internet.

/endsarcasm

[Karl Streiger]

Livewyr, on 28 May 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

*toots own horn for a minute* back in Beta when PPC Heat was a huge topic, with the masses calling for a PPC Heat nerf, I felt like one of few who argued that the PPC Heat needs to stay the same because it is small, light, and unlimited in ammunition.. Heat was the balance factor.

And i thought i was the only one that raged against the buffing of the PPC.... back then the weapon was the real - High Skill Weapon - most of the current high ranked players this days would only run Large Lasers instead.
3sec recharge and FLD made the weapon supreme in the right hands - although without HSR and lag shield fighting of a Jenner with PPCs in the arms was serious business.

[DEN_Ninja]

Karl Streiger, on 28 May 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

And i thought i was the only one that raged against the buffing of the PPC.... back then the weapon was the real - High Skill Weapon - most of the current high ranked players this days would only run Large Lasers instead.
3sec recharge and FLD made the weapon supreme in the right hands - although without HSR and lag shield fighting of a Jenner with PPCs in the arms was serious business.

I was called crazy for putting PPC's on my Catapult back in CB. I laughed when I jump jetted onto their dead mechs.

I didn't like the buffs at all. If it wasn't for ghost heat tbh I could go around in my K2 with Quad LPL have 40 damage hitscan alpha and the ability to fire it 2.5 times for a total of roughly 100 hit scan damage.

Edit. This 100 hitscan damage would only take about 8-9seconds to be outputted due to the 3.25 cycle rate. that is like 11 potential DPS.

I'd love for them to take off ghost heat and put up a PTS just so that people can suffer to the wills of the energy boats.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 28 May 2014 - 05:50 AM.

[Alex Warden]

Tichorius Davion, on 28 May 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I was called crazy for putting PPC's on my Catapult back in CB. I laughed when I jump jetted onto their dead mechs.

I didn't like the buffs at all. If it wasn't for ghost heat tbh I could go around in my K2 with Quad LPL have 40 damage hitscan alpha and the ability to fire it 2.5 times for a total of roughly 100 hit scan damage.

I'd love for them to take off ghost heat and put up a PTS just so that people can suffer to the wills of the energy boats.

oh i remember when i ran around in my k2 and shooting my 2 ppc´s like a pistolero in a cheesy italo western... it was kinda ridiculous... ppl can cry about ghost heat as much as they want, but - given the mechanics PGI went for - it was the right decision...

Edited by Alex Warden, 28 May 2014 - 05:55 AM.

[Livewyr]

Tichorius Davion, on 28 May 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

I actually enjoy that Ghost Heat did in fact curb the high damage pin point alpha builds to oblivion. Realistically it isn't ghost heat that is the problem as far as I am concerned. It is just the heat system in general.

When you allow for increased heat capacity AND dissipation you just open up a doorway to the high damage crap. It is harsh to make it so that every weapon system runs hot but MW/BT is not a that casual.

I like that it effected the 6PPC stalkers and such, but there are much better ways of dealing with the issue, ones that are more "fixes" than "bandaids."

(See if I can provide a quick example in 4 reasonable sentences or less. Go!)
Limiting Heat capacity to a hard 30 points and increasing HS efficiency would allow for people to fire as much as they dared of however many multiples of the same weapons. It would create a much more solid base from which to make improvements for variation of gameplay, such as increasing the Heat Capacity with Single heatsinks: allowing for someone to have a larger alpha strike capacity at the expense of slower cooling. This could be coupled with heat penalties, (like TT has) adapted for use in a real time game: like slowing the mech's topspeed and acceleration at 70% heat to prevent a pure gun-blazing meta, for example.
Done!

That would be a brilliant start, admittedly it would require a complete reworking of the Heat System, but just as UI2.0 (reworked UI) allowed for improvements such as sale downtime reduction, a better heat system would allow for basic mechanics, such as heat, to govern a playstyle, and allow players to choose between a DPS favoring heatsink setup, or an Alpha based heatsink setup.

Karl Streiger, on 28 May 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

And i thought i was the only one that raged against the buffing of the PPC.... back then the weapon was the real - High Skill Weapon - most of the current high ranked players this days would only run Large Lasers instead.
3sec recharge and FLD made the weapon supreme in the right hands - although without HSR and lag shield fighting of a Jenner with PPCs in the arms was serious business.

There were few of us.

The only Buff the PPC needed, was HSR.

Edited by Livewyr, 28 May 2014 - 05:56 AM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Livewyr, on 28 May 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

I like that it effected the 6PPC stalkers and such, but there are much better ways of dealing with the issue, ones that are more "fixes" than "bandaids."

(See if I can provide a quick example in 4 reasonable sentences or less. Go!)
Limiting Heat capacity to a hard 30 points and increasing HS efficiency would allow for people to fire as much as they dared of however many multiples of the same weapons. It would create a much more solid base from which to make improvements for variation of gameplay, such as increasing the Heat Capacity with Single heatsinks: allowing for someone to have a larger alpha strike capacity at the expense of slower cooling. This could be coupled with heat penalties, (like TT has) adapted for use in a real time game: like slowing the mech's topspeed and acceleration at 70% heat to prevent a pure gun-blazing meta, for example.
Done!

That would be a brilliant start, admittedly it would require a complete reworking of the Heat System, but just as UI2.0 (reworked UI) allowed for improvements such as sale downtime reduction, a better heat system would allow for basic mechanics, such as heat, to govern a playstyle, and allow players to choose between a DPS favoring heatsink setup, or an Alpha based heatsink setup.



There were few of us.

The only Buff the PPC needed, was HSR.

Oh man you don't even know. My original criticisms for how heat sinks and capacity worked was basically this.


SHS are 1 added Heat Capacity and 1 Heat Dissipation(HPS)
DHS are 0 added Heat Capacity and 2 Heat Dissipation(HPS)

Base Heat Capacity is 30. Allow for either between 10-20% increase in capacity from skill tree making it 33-36 total capacity.

Push PPC's back to 11 Heat Generated(HGS) ER PPC's to 14 Heat Generated(HGS)

Increase/Decrease Cycle times for energy weapons across the board.

Small Class lasers at 2 seconds
Medium Class lasers at 3 seconds
Large Class lasers at 4 seconds
PPC's at 5 seconds.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 28 May 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alex Warden, on 28 May 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

oh i remember when i ran around in my k2 and shooting my 2 ppc´s like a pistolero in a cheesy italo western... it was kinda ridiculous... ppl can cry about ghost heat as much as they want, but - given the mechanics PGI went for - it was the right decision...

2 PPCs are supposed to be handled with a minimum of 21 heat sinks or appropriate amount of doubles. That our game cannot handle that simple truth is sad indeed.

But I do love your use of Sam!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 May 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Green Mamba, on 28 May 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

Here is the Video. Host Starts the Question of Costs of Games about 18:00 minutes into the Video in Which Bryan answers this 60k Generally for Mechs and from 70k up to 250K for Maps with various Timeframes and Dev numbers

Isn't that the video with the iron queen off camera telling our DEVs NOT to answer a fan's question?!?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Tichorius Davion, on 28 May 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

No kidding. I am staying on this boat whether it sinks or floats though.


Also... Let's reiterate. Back in 2010-2011 no studio was willing to pick up the MW IP.

If MWO died today you'd have almost no chance to see another MW game for probably a decade or more if you are lucky. I like MWO anyways so "that's uh just like your uh opinion man".

Don't they old the IP rights till 2016 anyways so the game should be secure until then? I'm guessing that is their time frame for all mech releases then see whether or not they want to sell to somebody like Nexon, because the way the community treats devs and staff I wouldn't blame them if they didn't want to stick around.

[DEN_Ninja]

lockwoodx, on 28 May 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Don't they old the IP rights till 2016 anyways so the game should be secure until then? I'm guessing that is their time frame for all mech releases then see whether or not they want to sell to somebody like Nexon, because the way the community treats devs and staff I wouldn't blame them if they didn't want to stick around.

I don't know the specific of the deal for the IP nor am I well verse in copyright law.

It would seem that IGP/PGI have locked in the IP for the foreseeable future. It is not like anyone was going to pick it up anyways.

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Oh don't you She Squawks even try to get started. Get your team into a Drug Dependency program, and win about 4 more of them rings (buy Richard SHerman a muzzle), then come back and started squawkin!

Were you even born the last time the Forty Whiners won a ring?

Completely different game back in those days, what with having to avoid dinosaurs on the way to practice and all.

Have to admit that I'm torn re: Russell Wilson. You see, I grew up in Nebraska so I'm not sure I can forgive him for what he did to my Huskers.

[Tombstoner]

Livewyr, on 28 May 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

I would love it if the Devs came out with a thread "here's our idea for resolving x issue: We will look into well-read, short but sweet posts regarding concerns or additional suggestions." (With of course a disclaimer that your suggestion may or may not be implemented.) And then to add icing to it, the Comm manager could compile a list of qualifying ideas (which they already do) and add to it the Dev's comments regarding the overarching ideas. I.E: "Issue with suggestion 'y' is that it is too resource heavy and would slow the servers."

Doing that before beginning the programming on the feature could go a long way in preventing ham-handed "fixes" like Ghost Heat.

I know.. I know. I'm dreaming.

What... crowd sourcing design concepts to the players..... Really what do we know... its not like we have backgrounds in game design... just everything else under the sun..... sigh....

To quote a friend of mine..... " Individually we know some stuff, together we know everything".

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

But he has ZERO class pretty much any time he open his mouth.

Sherman is polarizing, that's for sure. He's loud and brash, so of course that's going to be the case.

But if you really believe what you said here, then you've clearly only seen Forty Whiner propaganda. Sherman is one of the smartest and deepest players in the NFL. You may not agree with him, but if you actually listen to him you have to at least admit that he's thoughtful and insightful. He's an athletic version of Russell Brand in that regard.

[Heffay]

Tichorius Davion, on 28 May 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

I don't know the specific of the deal for the IP nor am I well verse in copyright law.

It would seem that IGP/PGI have locked in the IP for the foreseeable future. It is not like anyone was going to pick it up anyways.

From the November post by Russ (?), they have the IP locked up until 2018, with an option to 2020 if certain milestones are met.