82 replies to this topic

[Flaming oblivion]

dario03, on 28 May 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

They should be the weakest direct fire weapon since they are the only weapon that can do indirect fire. Besides unless you let the enemy get within 180m they're not weak at direct fire anways.

They should be until you entirely negate the indirect fire with a module. Then equipping them becomes a moron only option. And they are weak at direct fire only weapon you cant twist effectively with , the speed they go through ammo .The spread, the minimum range , the fact they burn through ammo so fast ,ecm ams they're travel speed ,cover the list of reasons they're pathetic at direct fire is endless . Hence why you never or rarely see them in high end gameplay, yet they get nerfed again lmfao.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 28 May 2014 - 11:22 PM.

[Pjwned]

Immediately the first thing I think when reading "instant target loss module" is "wow this sounds incredibly stupid and poorly thought out," not to mention it completely screws over anybody that brings the improved target decay module.

I can understand the intention but completely nullifying target decay is stupid, it should just reduce the effectiveness by some amount, say 1 second or 1.5 seconds or something.

[Hangfire]

Wouldn't this screw up the 360deg Target retention module as well as Target Decay? These modules cost a lot of cbills so it would be nice to know exactly how this'll work.

[Chrithu]

Hey guys.

Get me in the loop. What are you on about?? Looked up the announcement area, found nothing about a new module.

Links??

[Hangfire]

Jason Parker, on 29 May 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:

Hey guys.

Get me in the loop. What are you on about?? Looked up the announcement area, found nothing about a new module.

Links??

http://mwomercs.com/...veloper-vlog-4/

I think that's where I heard about it

[wanderer]

Quote

Inner Sphere mechs should not be able to share targeting data in the year 3050 (they don't have C3)

Sharing targeting data would mean I could fire my LRMs to hit as if I was at your range, not my own. That's how C3 works.

My hit rate at 900m with a spotter at 200m clearly indicates this is not the case.

SPOTTING, which is what LRMs use is perfectly doable with even an unarmed hillbilly in Battletech, never mind a military-tech giant robot.

Know the difference and quit whining about it.

[Vweegit]

I give less than a single damn about poptarts using this, but I am giggling in anticipation of knifing you people in the back with my Jenner. Repeatedly. The real fun is gonna be the little ECM buggers. I just may have to build one and enable ninja mode.

On reflection:
Are we certain this is going to cross over to IS mechs? Perhaps it will be clan-only since they don't have ECM?

Upon further review:
Looks like I missed the last couple lines in the vlog. Yep. Ghost lights, here I come.

Edited by Vweegit, 29 May 2014 - 04:26 AM.

[CheeseThief]

I find this module surprisingly loreful.

The Fedrats spend so long developing those listen-kill missiles, and then the clans rocked up and said 'LOL, don't even need ECM'.

[Imperius]

Unless jump jets are going to produce PPC like heat and the fall damage will shatter a leg in a few poor thrust throttle jumps it won't be enough of a counter.

Also if heavies are going to take more fall damage via a scale... Then why isn't the armor buff scaled for how big slow targets that we and super easy to hit?

Light = x2 armor
Medium =x2 armor
Heavy =x2 armor
Assault =x2 armor

How it should have been

Light =x2 armor
Medium =x2.25 armor
Heavy =x2.50 armor
Assault =x2.75 armor

The extra .25 .50 and .75 should be added via the side torsos and center torso.

Now heavies and assaults have 3 nerfs in play

Slow, hill climb, and now fall damage SOUNDS "Balanced" to me.

Edited by Imperius, 29 May 2014 - 06:19 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Grey Ghost, on 28 May 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

Won't this also be the first Module that negates another Module, or is it only going to effect basic target decay? It's probably going to become the de facto must have module for everyone, especially Hill Humpers & Jump Snipers.

I worry about lone LRM launchers becoming wasted space again if this does become as prolific as I've imagined.

EDIT: It will be interesting if this or 3/3/3/3 will actually create an uptick in actual scouting Mechs, and less light PPC ERLL ECM peek-a-boo snipers.

yes, but scouting will not be done as much till the activity is in-game payout balanced against damage.

[Onmyoudo]

Yeah fall damage is either gonna be negligible or those same rocks that take out Locusts are gonna be topplin' Atlases. One or the other, guaranteed.

[Kjudoon]

1453 R, on 28 May 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Slapping this on a poptart is something of a waste, methinks. Obviously it’ll be a good boost to their ability to avoid counterfire, but poptarts are already poptarting to avoid counterfire anyways. Doesn’t matter if you can hold your lock an extra few seconds most of the time.

No no no. The real big-ticket for this one is going to be strikers. Like I mentioned in the official feedback thread, this thing is going to make light, agile strikers in cluttered terrain into veritable ghosts. Imagine trying to track a Commando in a city with this module. Or better yet, the Stormcrow this sucker’s going into as soon as the 17^th hits. The minute you break LoS, you fall off the face of the earth as far as enemy sensor systems is concerned. That’s going to ease a striker’s approaches to the targets he wishes to strike immensely; smart use of this module with covered approaches may very well almost live up to ECM levels of watdafuqery.

This is the sort of thing we need to see more of in the modules system, honestly. Powerful effects that have distinct advantages for specific roles on the battlefield. Not 2 meters’ extra range for flamers. I mean really.

I suspect clan modules will not be available for IS mechs.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Ok, so think of it this way, one less module for Arty/Air!

Kjudoon, on 29 May 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

I suspect clan modules will not be available for IS mechs.

They said you can use them...which goes against this whole Clan tech is clan tech, IS is IS they said earlier.

But it's a module everyone can use apparently.

Edited by shad0w4life, 29 May 2014 - 07:06 AM.

[Kjudoon]

I missed that conflation then. I wonder how/if they're going to work to balance out LRMs again once that, the Chaff Module, the AMS buff modules and other anti-LRM things go into effect on top of broken ECM.

Nope. Not detecting a catastrophic mess at all.

Edited by Kjudoon, 29 May 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Mystere, on 28 May 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Unfortunately, many of the existing player base know nothing else except "Module XXX is OP! Make it as dumb as the rest!", the one-dimensional thinkers that they are.

Apologies if I read it wrong, but many here thought/think that getting locks on targets you can't actually see, ala having actual direct LOS, was BS.

Does this module not correct for that? No SEE, = no Lock.

One assumes the other Lock based modules (360) will still function as they should... If you get a visual Lock and have decay, your lock will hold for its duration, regardless if the enemy has the "no-see-em" ^tm module on-board.

Edited by Almond Brown, 29 May 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

Remove target decay entirely. Replace it with target prediction. After a target leaves sight a target is predicted based of the last known vector of the targeted mech. Target decay never made sense from a realism sense anyway.

[TygerLily]

I'm going to wait to judge it until I see it BUT my worries in advance are like many people's: The recent LRM buff was good for bringing indirect fire in line with direct fire in terms of balance and this seems like a step back (with brawling and actual roles for Medium and Lights needing the next buffs). From the sounds of it, it's a loss of lock instantly with "no target decay" not referring to the module but to target decay in general.

I suppose the upside is, even if it does become the new Seismic (IE, a big go-to module), that's just that many fewer artillery and air we'll be seeing since it uses up the module slot...Will be super nice for Lights without ECM trying to make that getaway!

Again, waiting for implementation but I think it should just be the reverse of the target decay module: decreases the amount of time you remain targeted by the same amount as Target Decay increases it. Then it's not ultra powerful but is there for the guy who wants to deal with less LRMs. Meanwhile, Target Decay isn't rendered moot.

[Trauglodyte]

Imperius, on 28 May 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

I use target decay to see when they are going to pop up again to time my shot for them to "fly into it" I'm a gauss sniping Ilya... It doesn't just nerf added missile suppression. It's still a buff IMO, just throwing out my perspective you may have overlooked

I get that perspective. I used to use the module on my Scout mechs, back when the game first released into Open Beta when I thought "scouting" was needed, wanted, and important. Well, rather when the module was released but you get my point. Anyway, the module has a lot of uses outside of just LRM use. But, most people use it for LRMs only and that is why I posted what I did which you got. Win win

Almond Brown, on 29 May 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Apologies if I read it wrong, but many here thought/think that getting locks on targets you can't actually see, ala having actual direct LOS, was BS.

Does this module not correct for that? No SEE, = no Lock.

One assumes the other Lock based modules (360) will still function as they should... If you get a visual Lock and have decay, your lock will hold for its duration, regardless if the enemy has the "no-see-em" ^tm module on-board.

It just means that if you have the new module, you bone someone that has Target Decay. But, if they're not firing LRMs at a target at near max range when the target is about to gain cover/concealment, you don't lose anything. And, it only affects people that carry that module which most try-hards won't because they need 2 for strikes and one for whatever. I'm not really happy with this new one but it only slightly impacts LRM use and other uses of the module. If you pay attention to your targeting information, you'll quickly get an idea of who is and isn't taking it which means you play THOSE targets a bit smarter, harder, and differently. I chalk this up to nothing more than an added layer of AMS.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 29 May 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

the reign of timbertarts is inevitable.

Doubt it. Madcats with 2 JJ can only carry 25.5 tons of weapons. Dragon Slayers carry at least 35 tons. And clan autocannons wont do pinpoint damage. So Dragon Slayers will remain the preferred poptart platform.

Edited by Khobai, 29 May 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[Imperius]

Khobai, on 29 May 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Doubt it. Madcats with 2 JJ can only carry 25.5 tons of weapons. Dragon Slayers carry at least 35 tons. And clan autocannons wont do pinpoint damage. So Dragon Slayers will remain the preferred poptart platform.

Yes because clan weapons weigh more than IS weapon right ?