121 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

I couldn't help but notice that the scarring is all on his arm (1 component)

I would rather see buffs to other weapons then making PPCs flower bouquet launchers.

[Koniving]

I agree with the idea, but PGI tried this.

They couldn't fix splash damage.

The idea here is PPC damage (10) gets divided into nearby body parts.

So I hit CT, 5 damage goes there, 2.5 goes left, 2.5 goes right.

That's the idea.

Splash is multiplying damage so if a PPC is applied with splash damage...

It'd be 10 damage CT, 7 damage LT, 7 damage RT.

Trying to edit 'splash' damage led them to have missiles become dumbfired no matter what, with no flight paths at all.

Back in NGNG podcast 34 to 37, one of them, they were talking about doing this.
Then they failed horribly and gave up.

[verybad]

The Particle Projector Canon had been described in several ways for battletech.the base way however is
The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy.

The damage is NOT done through the lightning appearance, which is merely a visible effect that's little more than static according to the Battletech Tech Manual.f.

The damage is done because a bunch of high energy ions or protons are accelerated to highspeeds and it melts the armor.

NOT because of actual lightning.
It's right there in the source book,.Techmanual page 233.

In terms of balancing. I'd rather see firing multiple PPCs have effects like knocking your UI haywire for a bit

Edited by verybad, 29 May 2014 - 09:02 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Ultimatum X, on 29 May 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

This would make ER LLAS superior, while weighing less and taking up less crit space for less heat.

Why would you use a:

• 7 ton
  
• 3 crit slot
  
• 10 heat for 10 damage
  
• 540 range
  
• 90m min range
  
• Spread damage weapon

When a:

• 5 ton
  
• 2 crit slot
  
• 8 heat for 9 damage
  
• 675m range
  
• 0m range
  
• Spread damage weapon

...also exists?

Just an Idea, but here is how:

PPC

• 7 ton
  
• 3 crit slot
  
• 10 heat for 10 damage
  
• 540 range
  
• 0 Min Range (remove 90m min range) or Add Field Inhibitor On/Off Ability to have 0 Min Range w/ Drawbacks
  
• Spread damage weapon
  
• Give the PPC damage to also transfer some X amount of heat on target (Idea taken from Mech Warrior 4 and MW:LL)

ER Large Laser

• 5 ton
  
• 2 crit slot
  
• 8 heat for 9 damage
  
• 675m range
  
• 0m Min Range
  
• Spread damage weapon

That way they are still different. I imagine with this idea the PPC is still like shooting a projectile, so you can still turn away to avoid damage while their PPC is "arcing" on the target. Where as the person shooting at you with the ER Large Laser must still keep the laser on target.

Edited by General Taskeen, 29 May 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Yeah, PGI's record with splash damage is terrible, which is one reason for a different mechanic.

[Damocles]

dont splash dmg.
Stream dmg (Particle Projection Cannon streaming protons/ions) over .5 sec or so.

[Gas Guzzler]

General Taskeen, on 29 May 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Just an Idea, but here is how:

PPC

• 7 ton
  
• 3 crit slot
  
• 10 heat for 10 damage
  
• 540 range
  
• 0 Min Range (remove 90m min range) or Add Field Inhibitor On/Off Ability to have 0 Min Range w/ Drawbacks
  
• Spread damage weapon
  
• Give the PPC damage to also transfer some X amount of heat on target (Idea taken from Mech Warrior 4 and MW:LL)

ER Large Laser

• 5 ton
  
• 2 crit slot
  
• 8 heat for 9 damage
  
• 675m range
  
• 0m Min Range
  
• Spread damage weapon

That way they are still different.

I just don't like how making PPCs have spread damage just takes away from the skill of the shooter, and just makes life easier for the person being shot. It's simple, first round of PPCs hits one component, you force the next round to hit a different component. That's how you spread damage. I'm all for balance and diversifying things, it would just be nice if there was a different way to do it. As in making lasers more viable, SRMs more dangerous at close range, etc.

[Reitrix]

Has no one considered the negative impact such a change would have on 'mechs do not have Ballistic options? You're basically saying that only Ballistic slots should be allowed to FLD.

The problem is NOT one single weapon system. The problem is entirely linking several together at once.

A single PPC on its own is not OP, so it does not need "fixing". Fix the combos.

[Gas Guzzler]

Reitrix, on 29 May 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Has no one considered the negative impact such a change would have on 'mechs do not have Ballistic options? You're basically saying that only Ballistic slots should be allowed to FLD.

The problem is NOT one single weapon system. The problem is entirely linking several together at once.

A single PPC on its own is not OP, so it does not need "fixing". Fix the combos.

Or make all combos viable... or close to it at least.

[verybad]

UI, and Radar haywire from firing (ie lose hold on targets for a number of seconds friendly foe goes away, plus static).

Give the Awesome (and ONLY the Awesome) a special module/quirk that get's rid of that (for up to 3 PPCs plus the ghost heat for up to three ppcs).

There, it fixes the Awesome, and it fixes the PPC. Can I has a cookie?

[Cyborne Elemental]

What would be ideal.

7 damage on point.
Remaining 3 damage spread in decimal over nearest connected body parts, (ct hit = 7 in CT, 0.6 to head/RT/LT, 0.15 to LA/RA/LL/RL.) each body hit would needs its own damage formula following that system.

Half its heat (5 on PPC) (7.5 on ERPPC) delivered to target when in optimal range, decay matching range damage drop for anything beyond that.

0-100 meter ramp up to optimal damage for BOTH erppc/ppc. ( no magical dropoff point doing 0 dmg if its 89 meters, then at 90 it magically does full damage)

ECM emp hit from 10-1600 meters.

Reduction in heat to ERPPC to 12.5 or 13.

I always found it funny that 2 PPC gives better heat management score than 2 ERLL.

Only other alternative IMO is to make it function like any other laser, but very short duration so it has a chance to spread that damage out a little more.

Edited by Mister D, 29 May 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 May 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

I just don't like how making PPCs have spread damage just takes away from the skill of the shooter, and just makes life easier for the person being shot. It's simple, first round of PPCs hits one component, you force the next round to hit a different component. That's how you spread damage. I'm all for balance and diversifying things, it would just be nice if there was a different way to do it. As in making lasers more viable, SRMs more dangerous at close range, etc.

Damage arcing would leave a lot of skill in the placing of the initial impact point. It would also open up further avenues of skill, by trying to land shots where they could arc into vulnerable areas that are behind cover and otherwise unreachable.

Reitrix, on 29 May 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Has no one considered the negative impact such a change would have on 'mechs do not have Ballistic options? You're basically saying that only Ballistic slots should be allowed to FLD.

The problem is NOT one single weapon system. The problem is entirely linking several together at once.

A single PPC on its own is not OP, so it does not need "fixing". Fix the combos.

A few points about this:

1 - Every single FLD combo is PPC+X. Quad AC5 Jagers and Phracts aren't a problem. There aren't many mechs available that can even carry four AC5s, and aside from a Banshee or two they're all heavies. It's far more common to have 2PPCs and a single AC, or for larger mechs 2 PPCs and 2 ACs.

2 - FLD is front-loaded damage. Missile launchers are FLD. ACs, Gauss, and PPCs are FLD. PPC damage arcing would not remove PPC FLD, it would simply lower the pinpoint damage-on-impact.

3 - PPC damage arcing is not the only change MWO needs, it's simply one of the first (and likely easiest) that PGI should implement. Others include dynamic precision reduction, AC cassette-style burst fire, etc.

[Reitrix]

verybad, on 29 May 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

UI, and Radar haywire from firing (ie lose hold on targets for a number of seconds friendly foe goes away, plus static).

Give the Awesome (and ONLY the Awesome) a special module/quirk that get's rid of that (for up to 3 PPCs plus the ghost heat for up to three ppcs).

There, it fixes the Awesome, and it fixes the PPC. Can I has a cookie?

I still don't understand why people demand to be able to fire all 3 PPCs at once. Shoot the chest pair, wait a fraction of a second and pop the arm cannon. BOOM, no ghost heat.

[verybad]

Reitrix, on 29 May 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

I still don't understand why people demand to be able to fire all 3 PPCs at once. Shoot the chest pair, wait a fraction of a second and pop the arm cannon. BOOM, no ghost heat.

Because the Awesome needs a buff. That gives it something that other mechs don't have, currently it's a POS, and nobody uses it for what it was famous for. (if at all)

Edited by verybad, 29 May 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[Reitrix]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 29 May 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Damage arcing would leave a lot of skill in the placing of the initial impact point. It would also open up further avenues of skill, by trying to land shots where they could arc into vulnerable areas that are behind cover and otherwise unreachable.



A few points about this:

1 - Every single FLD combo is PPC+X. Quad AC5 Jagers and Phracts aren't a problem. There aren't many mechs available that can even carry four AC5s, and aside from a Banshee or two they're all heavies. It's far more common to have 2PPCs and a single AC, or for larger mechs 2 PPCs and 2 ACs.

2 - FLD is front-loaded damage. Missile launchers are FLD. ACs, Gauss, and PPCs are FLD. PPC damage arcing would not remove PPC FLD, it would simply lower the pinpoint damage-on-impact.

3 - PPC damage arcing is not the only change MWO needs, it's simply one of the first (and likely easiest) that PGI should implement. Others include dynamic precision reduction, AC cassette-style burst fire, etc.

You're aware that even if you added arcing, the numbers given by everyone making this suggestion means that you're reducing the PPC+X Combo damage by a whopping ... 3-5 damage.
That's hardly going to make an impact on jump snipers and such. They'll just view it as a bonus means of hitting your CT if they miss their shot and hit your ST instead.

verybad, on 29 May 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Because the Awesome needs a buff. That gives it something that other mechs don't have, currently it's a POS, and nobody uses it for what it was famous for.

I use it for what its famous for. And i do it fairly well.

Edited by Reitrix, 29 May 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[verybad]

Aws 8Q is what I was thinking of, but even so, the thing in it's most famous designs has a reliance on PPCs that other mechs simply don't. It should be able to handle them better as that's what it's designed to do.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Reitrix, on 29 May 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

You're aware that even if you added arcing, the numbers given by everyone making this suggestion means that you're reducing the PPC+X Combo damage by a whopping ... 3-5 damage.
That's hardly going to make an impact on jump snipers and such. They'll just view it as a bonus means of hitting your CT if they miss their shot and hit your ST instead.

The numbers I suggest would lower the typical FLD jump sniper pinpoint volley by 10 damage (2 PPCs are standard).

[Eddrick]

I wonder if anyone take a Heavy PPC with PPC Capasitor into consideration when coming up with the idea of "Damage Arching"?

Heavy PPC stats: 15 Damage, 15 Heat, 10 Tons, 4 Critical Slots, same range as Standard PPC (including minimum range). http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Heavy_PPC
PPC Capasitor adds 5 damage and 5 heat to any PPC with is equiped to for 1 extra Ton and Critical Slot. http://www.sarna.net...i/PPC_Capacitor

[Dymlos2003]

Yay a thread on how to ruin the PPC!

[Why Run]

Mister Blastman, on 29 May 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Making PPCs the inverse of SRMs...

i.e. increasing damage spread the closer they are fired to their target all the way out to perfect pinpoint at max range would be the optimal solution. But... alas... I don't see this happening either any time soon.



It isn't nerf. It is some of us are tired of easy mode. It is laughably simple for me to kill people will PPCs + Autocannons when the enemy has none. It gets boring.

It also gets boring playing against mostly snipers, too.

So we aren't asking for nerfs, we are asking to improve the game and diversify things.

you pulled out one sentence and ignored the rest of the paragraph. The point is, they've f'd so many other parts of the game up that you cannot keep nerfing weapons without further screwing the balance. If you want to redo the mechanics of a central weapon system, you need to clear the boards and start over. They should have done it before beta ended. It's NOT TOO LATE. It starts with scrapping the 2x armor. That decision, compounded the Hit Detection issues. Now, mini-mechs with undersized models and speed that out does the engine laugh through 1/2 the damage dealt. It's a problem because all of a sudden 250 armor is an incredible amount with tiny, often screwy hit boxes, and completely bonked hit detection.