121 replies to this topic

[Rhaythe]

Maybe this has been brought up. Maybe it hasn't. Eh well. Here we go.

PPC's are, in essence, man-made lightning. And yet, their portrayal in-game is of point-point damage delivery. Thus the current meta.

However, do a google search on damage inflicted by lightning strikes to the human body:


Heck, just look at the PPC blasts in-game:


Obviously, neither look even close to coalescing to a single point. Even the blast itself is a stream of pulsing energy strands. So why not have the PPC blasts scatter across an area of a mech starting slightly off-center of the target point and skewing in a random direction?


This maintains the power of the PPC, keeps with the lore of it being a lightning-based weapon, and is a passive nerf to the pin-point damage meta currently dominating the game.

Okay. You may now start flaming me.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

You are talking about PPC damage arcing. It's something I've been pushing for months now. Not only would it lower the pinpoint damage of PPCs without removing their FLD mechanic, but it'd be an opportunity for PGI to add some really pretty impact effects.

Mechanically, they should have them do 50% damage on impact, then jump to a random, adjacent, non-head location for 30% damage, and then jump again to a second random, adjacent, non-head, not-already-hit-by-this-shot location for the final 20% damage.

Not only would it be flavorful, but it'd be a good step toward making PPCs more mechanically balanced compared to other weapon choices. Doing this might even allow PGI to bump their base heat down a bit, and/or tweak the Ghost Heat limits/penalties.

[Ultimax]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 29 May 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

You are talking about PPC damage arcing. It's something I've been pushing for months now. Not only would it lower the pinpoint damage of PPCs without removing their FLD mechanic, but it'd be an opportunity for PGI to add some really pretty impact effects.

Mechanically, they should have them do 50% damage on impact, then jump to a random, adjacent, non-head location for 30% damage, and then jump again to a second random, adjacent, non-head, not-already-hit-by-this-shot location for the final 20% damage.

Not only would it be flavorful, but it'd be a good step toward making PPCs more mechanically balanced compared to other weapon choices. Doing this might even allow PGI to bump their base heat down a bit, and/or tweak the Ghost Heat limits/penalties.

This would make ER LLAS superior, while weighing less and taking up less crit space for less heat.



Why would you use a:

• 7 ton
  
• 3 crit slot
  
• 10 heat for 10 damage
  
• 540 range
  
• 90m min range
  
• Spread damage weapon

When a:

• 5 ton
  
• 2 crit slot
  
• 8 heat for 9 damage
  
• 675m range
  
• 0m range
  
• Spread damage weapon

...also exists?

Edited by Ultimatum X, 29 May 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[Rhaythe]

That's easy. Front-loaded damage. Which was the point of my post.

[Merrick]

personally i like this idea but i feel like the damage spread should also follow the path of least resistance ie: Hit to CT arcs to lower torso (lt or rt) then to the corrisponding leg and into the ground spreading the damage through the affected areas, though i freely admit this may be a nightmare to code and know it to be unlikely to be implemented.

Edited by Merrick, 29 May 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[xeromynd]

Would totally support this if the ratios were a bit more skewed.
65% - Pinpoint on component
25% - Adjacent "non-head" component
10% - Adjacent "non-head" component to the previous.

If they did this and bumped the heat down slightly, would be great. It's like the compliment sandwich thing they did with the gauss. "Yes you have to charge now, but the projectile speed is increased"
With PPC: "Yes there's less pinpoint damage, but less heat now!"

They could even make the ERPPC a bit more focused in this respect, maybe only deliver damage to one adjacent component, and have more percentage of pinpoint damage, still retaining it's use as a sniping weapon, with less of a heat decrease .

[East Indy]

It's interesting, but the problem is and always has been players abusing MWO's simplistic, perfect convergence.

[StalaggtIKE]

That's a loaded question. Why would you compare the PPC to the ERLL instead of the LL?

[Rhaythe]

East Indy, on 29 May 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

It's interesting, but the problem is and always has been players abusing MWO's simplistic, perfect convergence.

Agreed, but it's been made pretty obvious that that's not going anywhere anytime soon. Might as well tweak what can be tweaked.

[Ultimax]

Rhaythe, on 29 May 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

That's easy. Front-loaded damage. Which was the point of my post.

The LB10-X scatter shot is front-loaded spread damage, but they are fairly low HPS.
LRMs are front-loaded spread damage, but they are fairly high Damage per ton.

So I think your proposal would be too large of a nerf for what is really intended to be one of the premier energy weapons in the game for it's heat and tonnage.




A: Front Loaded / Spread / Projectile (requires leading, but is fire & forget)
vs.
B: Duration / Spread / Hitscan (does not require leading, requires time on target)

Wouldn't be such a bad comparison, if B wasn't lighter (29~30%), less crit slots, better damage per heat ratio (12.5% more efficient), better range (+25%), with no minimum range.

That's the issue IMO.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 29 May 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Ultimatum X, on 29 May 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

The LB10-X scatter shot is front-loaded spread damage.
LRMs are front-loaded spread damage.

You watch yo' mouf. I lub me some LBX.

[Agent of Change]

East Indy, on 29 May 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

It's interesting, but the problem is and always has been players abusing MWO's simplistic, perfect convergence.

Congrats you are not wrong.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

SRMs, LRMs, and LBX ACs all have a good chance to miss a chunk of their damage scattering, especially at longer ranges. PPC damage arcing would always do full damage to the target. With the 50/30/20 spread you'd do 5 points on impact, which is still a sizeable amount of pinpoint damage. An Awesome would be putting 15 damage on a single point, with a further 15 spread around it.

East Indy, on 29 May 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

It's interesting, but the problem is and always has been players abusing MWO's simplistic, perfect convergence.

Ultimately we need dynamic precision reduction, but since that's either never gonna happen or a long time coming, we need other, weapon mechanic fixes. PPC damage arcing is one of the more likely to do the job, insofar as any single weapon change can help things.

[RangerGee412]

How about making it a damage over time weapon? When the PPC fires it looks like a ball with a tail on it like a comet. How about the ball contains the majority of the damage but then the tail end streams the rest of the damage in. With this it can still be possible to have all your damage hit one location. Your target can still utilise torso twist in to spread the damage.

[Hobo Dan]

As others have stated, convergence may indeed be the main issue here, but there has been zero indication that convergence in its current form will ever/or could ever be changed. It’s always fair to mention convergence, but not at the detriment of other good ideas. IMO.

This idea adds flavor to the weapon without neutering it (assuming its heat generation is reduced with the effect) and helps reduce pin point damage to one section without taking away skillful aiming by the shooter.

[Agent of Change]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 29 May 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

SRMs, LRMs, and LBX ACs all have a good chance to miss a chunk of their damage scattering, especially at longer ranges. PPC damage arcing would always do full damage to the target. With the 50/30/20 spread you'd do 5 points on impact, which is still a sizeable amount of pinpoint damage. An Awesome would be putting 15 damage on a single point, with a further 15 spread around it.



Ultimately we need dynamic precision reduction, but since that's either never gonna happen or a long time coming, we need other, weapon mechanic fixes. PPC damage arcing is one of the more likely to do the job, insofar as any single weapon change can help things.

Ultimately i have decided to support this Idea. it's interesting and that alone should be noted. but as you say, convergence has to be dealt with.

[SirLANsalot]

Back in the day PPC's did do this in Close Beta. Why it was pulled out is still a bit of a mystery.

PPC's originally did 9 damage on location and 1 damage to an adjacent location for a total of 10 damage, aka the arc.


Would be cool to have this come back.

[Why Run]

More nerf weapon threads. Lets make the already insane FS's with 4 lasers and 4 mgs, more powerful by making it EVEN HARDER to do damage, nevermind Cicadas and Spiders and Jenners. THE ONLY WAY THIS WORKS IS IF HIT REG WORKS AND ARMOR IS NERFED TO TT NUMBERS! Everything else will destroy this game. Same goes with the AC proposals on range and burst. It's hard enough when many shots don't register, you'd be an idiot to take anything heavier than a Cicada with some of these short-sighted ideas. They need to wipe these balances back to Beta 1. Armor at normal levels, and then figure out how they want damage done. None of these ideas work given the current mechanics and balances, as well as bugs. ENOUGH already.

HELLO GUYS. THIS IS 3050ish. If you can't hit what you're aiming at, you were dead in the 2000s.

[Zerberus]

Rhaythe, on 29 May 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Maybe this has been brought up. Maybe it hasn't. Eh well. Here we go.

PPC's are, in essence, man-made lightning. And yet, their portrayal in-game is of point-point damage delivery. Thus the current meta.

However, do a google search on damage inflicted by lightning strikes to the human body:

OT, but that is more awesome than just about any tattoo, completely random yet so beautifully organized at the same time..... And who else can call a thunderstorm their body modifications specialist?

Edited by Zerberus, 29 May 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 29 May 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

SRMs, LRMs, and LBX ACs all have a good chance to miss a chunk of their damage scattering, especially at longer ranges. PPC damage arcing would always do full damage to the target. With the 50/30/20 spread you'd do 5 points on impact, which is still a sizeable amount of pinpoint damage. An Awesome would be putting 15 damage on a single point, with a further 15 spread around it.



Ultimately we need dynamic precision reduction, but since that's either never gonna happen or a long time coming, we need other, weapon mechanic fixes. PPC damage arcing is one of the more likely to do the job, insofar as any single weapon change can help things.

Making PPCs the inverse of SRMs...

i.e. increasing damage spread the closer they are fired to their target all the way out to perfect pinpoint at max range would be the optimal solution. But... alas... I don't see this happening either any time soon.

Why Run, on 29 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

HELLO GUYS. THIS IS 3050ish. If you can't hit what you're aiming at, you were dead in the 2000s.

It isn't nerf. It is some of us are tired of easy mode. It is laughably simple for me to kill people will PPCs + Autocannons when the enemy has none. It gets boring.

It also gets boring playing against mostly snipers, too.

So we aren't asking for nerfs, we are asking to improve the game and diversify things.