22 replies to this topic

[Ursh]

Go do something else. You're not going to learn any good habits hanging out with a bunch of guys who won't maneuver, especially if they're taking potshots while getting whittled down by lrm and snipers.

Move around the side, run back to your base, try to do an end-around and ambush one of their lrm boats. Pretty much anything will be more productive and instructive than hanging out with cowards who refuse to do anything proactive against a team that is obviously beating them.

When your team is camping and still losing, it's okay to break the rule of staying with the group. You'll probably still die, but you were going to die anyways, and at least by attempting something sneaky you'll learn more about optimal approach routes and typical firing positions teams use to fire on the position you were just in.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I don't think that always such a good idea. It kinda depends on what mech you're in. Some mechs are not made for roaming freely and will get eaten by light packs.

In fact, I would advise patience in most situations. Running off, when you're not made for action away from the group, is a good way to get killed or leave your group down a mech if the enemy pushes while you're away.

Not that you should remain completely static, either. Moving around to detect flanking attacks or other sneaky stuff is good so long as you can still be supported by your group. The worst part about camping tactics in my opinion is they often coincide with nobody scouting anymore.

[xMintaka]

If nothing else you'll die like a mechwarrior, not some scared little kid.

This sort of thing happens most often on Terra Therma. Everyone races to the entrance to the blunderdome and just...stops. When you say push in, everyone rails on you about it being suicide and to "just wait".

Right, we wait out here, while the enemy waltzes in and sets up to either side of our entry. It's at precisely this point that those advocating the "wait and see" approach start peeking through the gap one at a time.

When a barely functional Thunderbolt and Loup de Guerre (one Mlas and LRM15, missing an arm at this point) can keep an Atlas and two Stalkers INSIDE the bowl despite being the only mechs left alive... Well, too many people in this game are afraid of damaging their pixels.


If the game is still up in the air, I agree with Rouken. It's better to be patient and stay with the group. When it becomes clear that your teammates are intent on offering themselves up for sacrifice one at a time... Meh, it's quicker and more glorious to go out all guns blazing than getting shredded in seconds before you can fire at all.

Edited by Lunatech, 29 May 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[The Basilisk]

As always. Runaround shooter kiddys bewailing, patience and thoughtfullness and then posting whine thread over whinethred on the forums promoting strategies that simply can't work. Then blaiming the game and the devs that their faulty strategies should have worked and the game is too slow or too unrealistic.
A battle, no matter whitch kind is nothing more than a lot of unnerving waiting carefull positioning and patience followed by seconds of nerve tearing seconds of action.
Those who blink first whil fail.

[Voivode]

The Basilisk, on 29 May 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

As always. Runaround shooter kiddys bewailing, patience and thoughtfullness and then posting whine thread over whinethred on the forums promoting strategies that simply can't work. Then blaiming the game and the devs that their faulty strategies should have worked and the game is too slow or too unrealistic.
A battle, no matter whitch kind is nothing more than a lot of unnerving waiting carefull positioning and patience followed by seconds of nerve tearing seconds of action.
Those who blink first whil fail.

Patience is important, but staying put in a position when your team is obviously receiving more effective fire than it is giving is a recipe for losing.

More often than not, the team that has a good sense of maneuvering under fire is the one that winds

[Void Angel]

The problem with leaving the team completely is that you tend to end up isolated and destroyed. If your team is bogged down camping, it's usually a bad thing - but while you should stay spread out and relay information to the team, you don't want to just run off because camping behind a hillside is boring. Work your way along the flank, or send up spot reports of what the enemy is doing - but don't run off by yourself, even with a small group.

[Flaming oblivion]

Voivode, on 29 May 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Patience is important, but staying put in a position when your team is obviously receiving more effective fire than it is giving is a recipe for losing.

More often than not, the team that has a good sense of maneuvering under fire is the one that winds

The OP is giving good advice he's afraid his opponents will start listening and he cant feast on easy wins , ignore him.

[Ursh]

Patience and good positioning is one thing. Hiding from LRMs/Snipers and not maneuvering to do anything about it is simply stupid and there's no point in waiting for the end, hoping the guys on your team playing peekaboo did enough damage for you to get a kill or two to salvage your KDR for the match.

The river bend in Canyon Network is a great example. Guys starting on the north side will run up to the river bend and sit below the ledge waiting for....who the heck knows. They turn around the corner and they get shot by three mechs and lrmed. They go over the top and they get shot by 3 mechs and lrmed. At that point most of your team is just sitting there, paralyzed, occasionally peeking out to get hit by 3 mechs while maybe getting one or two shots off. Your lrm boat is waiting for someone to give him locks so he can get free damage/kills without risking his pixels. If people are afraid of the other team rushing the base, hanging back by the bridge where you have a clear firing alley and structures to use for dodging lrms makes more sense. Instead, in pug game after pug game i see the majority of the team camping the river bend, waiting to die.

Best part of those matches is that I can go out guns blazing five minutes into the match, exit after death, and then see my mech is deployed for the next ten minutes, and is still sitting at XP x 2 for the day because....after getting whittled down to the last 2-3 guys, they retreated to the base and no one on the other team wanted to scratch their paint killing turrets to dig them out, so the game went down to the timer. The ten minutes I spent on the forums or catching up on what those wacky Kardashians are up to was far more productive than participating.

Edited by Ursh, 29 May 2014 - 12:28 PM.

[Sug]

Just circle the map in a counterclockwise direction until you switch starting points with the other team for no reason like the rest of us.

[Rogue Jedi]

as primarily a light pilot this does not apply to me so much as it does to slow mechs (especially as I am usually off scouting,capping or harassing) but if I am with the rest of my team and they are focusing on one avenue of advance and the enemy have it blocked I will usually suggest the team (or at least the fast mechs) break off and go elsewhere, possibly try to flank the enemy, cap points or harass the base.

If your team is in a strong defensive position and the enemy are coming at you a few at a time abandoning position is crazy in skirmish but if in conquest and the enemy is out capping you or you are in assault and the enemy is attacking your base you must at least send a lance to ensure you are not capped to a loss

[Koniving]

Ursh, on 29 May 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Too true.

In a match today we were holding a line expecting the team to flank.
They formed a line behind us.
"Flank?"
"........(Crickets)"
So I left the front line, went around, and got another 1,000+ damage multi kill match because the other team didn't think to turn around when me and 2 other Banshees finally made our way behind them.

There's a vid here that's useful in demonstrating exactly what happens when the team does not have a force willing to (or capable of) flanking.

Spoiler

Tactical failure: A cover-fire stalemate with the edge for the enemy team. The only way to break it is to flank. The only mechs who can...aren't interested. The ones who want a flank done...can't physically do it (can't climb the hill on the opposite end).

It inevitably leads to defeat.

Edited by Koniving, 29 May 2014 - 12:41 PM.

[Orbit Rain]

Sug, on 29 May 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Just circle the map in a counterclockwise direction until you switch starting points with the other team for no reason like the rest of us.

Lmfao

I can see where OP is coming from. Couple a matches yesterday was amazed at how much maneuvering people were doing to stay behind their teammates.

[White Bear 84]

The Basilisk, on 29 May 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

As always. Runaround shooter kiddys bewailing, patience and thoughtfullness and then posting whine thread over whinethred on the forums promoting strategies that simply can't work. Then blaiming the game and the devs that their faulty strategies should have worked and the game is too slow or too unrealistic.
A battle, no matter whitch kind is nothing more than a lot of unnerving waiting carefull positioning and patience followed by seconds of nerve tearing seconds of action.
Those who blink first whil fail.

Please stand still while our team alpha strikes your mechs one by one as they peek to take shots & while our scouts run around your rear and launch an airstrike on all of your mechs stupidly clustered on the same spot.

There is a difference between patience and tactics. You should never wait for the enemy to mothball you while you are all clustered up and should use tactics to your advantage in order to gain an edge over the enemy team. Staying static on one spot does not provide any advantage. Flanking, setting up a firing line among other tactics are encouraged. You can still perform manoeuvres and counter manoeuvres with patience, but at the end of the day you need to respond to what threat comes your way. I believe the OP was trying to convey this message.

I pretty much sum it up in this thread: 3 Tips for a more successful game

[Ursh]

White Bear 84, on 29 May 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Please stand still while our team alpha strikes your mechs one by one as they peek to take shots & while our scouts run around your rear and launch an airstrike on all of your mechs stupidly clustered on the same spot.

There is a difference between patience and tactics. You should never wait for the enemy to mothball you while you are all clustered up and should use tactics to your advantage in order to gain an edge over the enemy team. Staying static on one spot does not provide any advantage. Flanking, setting up a firing line among other tactics are encouraged. You can still perform manoeuvres and counter manoeuvres with patience, but at the end of the day you need to respond to what threat comes your way. I believe the OP was trying to convey this message.

I pretty much sum it up in this thread: 3 Tips for a more successful game

Yep, exactly. Shoot and move. Camping out is death.

[Chrithu]

Lunatech, on 29 May 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

If nothing else you'll die like a mechwarrior, not some scared little kid.

This sort of thing happens most often on Terra Therma. Everyone races to the entrance to the blunderdome and just...stops. When you say push in, everyone rails on you about it being suicide and to "just wait".

Right, we wait out here, while the enemy waltzes in and sets up to either side of our entry. It's at precisely this point that those advocating the "wait and see" approach start peeking through the gap one at a time.

When a barely functional Thunderbolt and Loup de Guerre (one Mlas and LRM15, missing an arm at this point) can keep an Atlas and two Stalkers INSIDE the bowl despite being the only mechs left alive... Well, too many people in this game are afraid of damaging their pixels.


If the game is still up in the air, I agree with Rouken. It's better to be patient and stay with the group. When it becomes clear that your teammates are intent on offering themselves up for sacrifice one at a time... Meh, it's quicker and more glorious to go out all guns blazing than getting shredded in seconds before you can fire at all.

AMEN brother.

Most people just do not realize that in 8 out of10 matches on terra therma being the first to secure the crater interior is key to victory. It is the fastest approach to spotting positions in order to see if the enemy is flanking around or rushing to base and it is the fastest approach to just run through to the enemy's base.

And it doesn't take many mechs to begin with. A lance of heavies can easily keep the enemy out if they act fast to get to the opposite entrance, while the rest flanks on either side. That is another quite promising approach to the map.

Camping just at the entrance peeking one at a time is like giving away the match in the first 90 seconds. If I see my team do that and cannot convince them to move I ususally just go suicide doing as much damage as possible and move on to the next match.

I mean. Peek and cover is a good way in a limited number of builds anyways and only if the majority of the team moves and pushes so that the peekers aren't the only thing for the enemy to shoot at.

In 8v8 this may have had it's occurences where it worked. But in 12v12 peeking one at a time is turning the game into 1vs12 willingly. If the enemy acts half way coordinated you see people pop in instadeaths all over the place.

Edited by Jason Parker, 30 May 2014 - 12:21 AM.

[Bigbacon]

Jason Parker, on 30 May 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Camping just at the entrance peeking one at a time is like giving away the match in the first 90 seconds. If I see my team do that and cannot convince them to move I ususally just go suicide doing as much damage as possible and move on to the next match.

this here is the problem with center 9 times out of 10 6 to 8 mechs will just pack into an entrance and stand there blocking anyone from leaving or getting in and once you get flanked they are done. If people would just go in things work out a lot better. I try to make it a point to say that during rounds on the this map and if my team won't do anything else then I just sit and watch flanks, tell team about flankers, see no attempt to care, run away because I can't take on a lance+ on my own, go find a lone enemy who is sitting by himself on the other side of the map, watch team die horribly and then die myself in a final death charge.

[oldradagast]

Lunatech, on 29 May 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

If nothing else you'll die like a mechwarrior, not some scared little kid.

This sort of thing happens most often on Terra Therma. Everyone races to the entrance to the blunderdome and just...stops. When you say push in, everyone rails on you about it being suicide and to "just wait".

Right, we wait out here, while the enemy waltzes in and sets up to either side of our entry. It's at precisely this point that those advocating the "wait and see" approach start peeking through the gap one at a time.

When a barely functional Thunderbolt and Loup de Guerre (one Mlas and LRM15, missing an arm at this point) can keep an Atlas and two Stalkers INSIDE the bowl despite being the only mechs left alive... Well, too many people in this game are afraid of damaging their pixels.


If the game is still up in the air, I agree with Rouken. It's better to be patient and stay with the group. When it becomes clear that your teammates are intent on offering themselves up for sacrifice one at a time... Meh, it's quicker and more glorious to go out all guns blazing than getting shredded in seconds before you can fire at all.

The Blunderdome on Terra Therma is a perfect example of this. Once it is clear my team has committed to a stupid course of action - generally clumping around the door while taking strikes on the head and getting in each other's way - I'll usually look for a flanking opportunity. Yeah, I'll probably die, but at least I'll being DOING something instead of staring at the back of my team-mates as they stand in a door way being cut down one at a time. And, hey - sometimes that flank works if I can convince a few people go with me.

[Wrathful-Khan]

Posted this in another thread, but it seems relevent here:

---
My personal experience of MWO is that the battles have three phases:

PHASE 1 - DEPLOYMENT/SKIRMISH/SNIPING

The first phase of battle involves both teams moving out, trying to locate the enemy whilst also trying to get a superior position. This phase is characterised by a lot of thrust & feint from light mechs, and a lot of long range lrm/sniper action with the intent of suppressing the enemy and trying to deny them from getting the superior postion.

PHASE 1 can be very short or very long (can even last for the duration of the match). Caution and patience pay off at this time.

PHASE 2 - DIGGING IN / ENGAGEMENT

The second phase of battle is when a front line at medium to short range has been established.

If one team manage to gain a superior position in the first phase - a push in the right area can end the battle quickly and decisively. (this is when stomps occur)

If neither team has the advantage it can become a war of attrition from behind cover - like trench warfare.

Ballsy maneuvres can tip the balance in this phase.

PHASE 3 - MOPPING UP

If one team manages to break their opponents line, the initiative will be in their hands to hunt down and destroy the enemy's scattered troops and pockets of resistance. Beware, for the 'losing' team may rally, regroup, or have a reserve force that can swing the tide back again.

Teamwork is important to finish the battle as efficiently as possible
----

My point is that there is nothing wrong with 'patience and caution' - as long as you are actively contributing to the team. If you are a lurmy dude - then lurm away my friend! If you are a sniper - suppress or try to get an enfilading position. A brawler? Try and quickly overwhelm strays.

And sometimes, you have to go in balls and all. "Who Dares Wins"

The wrong thing to do is to stand on each other's head, behind the same rock only 20m apart, praying to Kerensky that you don't die first. That battle will be lost before it has even started.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Jason Parker, on 30 May 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Most people just do not realize that in 8 out of10 matches on terra therma being the first to secure the crater interior is key to victory.

Not necessarily - if you can convince your team to stand back from the door - so that you can all shoot up into it - it reverses the situation - and the other team gets funneled together and shot up.


There are several points on both sides where you can do that - while still maintaining ready scouting to the sides in case of a flank.



Key point in both situations though - is NOT standing in (or near really) the doors

[Felio]

When you break off, there is also that 10% chance you can get someone to follow you.

Anyway, I had made a thread about how annoying this is and trying to figure out how to stop it.

http://mwomercs.com/...age__p__3385751

Edited by Felio, 02 June 2014 - 12:25 PM.