275 replies to this topic

[DireWolf307]

Renan Ruivo, on 20 June 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Funny how a lot of kickstarter projects offer even alpha builds for you to try out without charging a dime ... Being "kickstarter" does not mean that people should support it without trying it out first.

There is nothing wrong with that request. If there are some (a lot, actually) people who are ready to give money without seeing what they are giving their support for that is their choice.


There is merit in what these people are asking. You might not agree with what they are asking, but you have to agree that they have the right to ask.

But you will get to try it earlier. With a Kickstarter you still have to pay before you get anything. When the Founders go in to Closed Beta 2 on August 7th, you are still getting guaranteed earlier access...

Don't see how it's different.

[gregsolidus]

I didn't say I don't agree,I'm merely stating a fact.This is pretty much a kickstarter, otherwise known as a donation.Donations are based on good faith and don't entitle you to anything nor do they require the recipient to give you anything in kind.

Edited by gregsolidus, 20 June 2012 - 06:52 PM.

[Shivus]

gregsolidus, on 20 June 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Anyone else find it weird that a whole bunch of the new users seem to have a bone to pick with the founders pack?

They're approaching it incorrectly from the idea that this is a one time purchase title. If it were, their criticisms would be valid. But it's not. In a premium free to play title you get the full deal, the full game, from not spending a single penny on it. You can access everything a legendary founder can access sans the founders mechs, but those are bonuses anyway with nothing more than a c-bill bonus. Drop some money for a premium account, custom paint jobs, what have you along the way, aside from aesthetics and the benefits of more c-bills and xp from a battle, free is the full game.

I skipped the WoT preorders, never regretted it. I played WoT for free for a good long time before finally trying out a premium account, and did just fine. I just like Mechs more than tanks, so I have little trouble dropping $60 to support a franchise I like and get some nice thank you gifts in return.

[Renan Ruivo]

DireWolf307, on 20 June 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

But you will get to try it earlier. With a Kickstarter you still have to pay before you get anything. When the Founders go in to Closed Beta 2 on August 7th, you are still getting guaranteed earlier access...

Don't see how it's different.

Ending the founder's offer before open beta officially begins. That is the difference.

If people are getting the founder's pack because they want to offer support, then they can't claim its wrong for other people to be able to buy it after open beta begins.

They won't have had access to the closed beta like the ones who bought the founder's pack early, but they prefer to see what they are supporting first. It's a tradeof.

Edited by Renan Ruivo, 20 June 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Ettibber]

Arom, on 20 June 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

I agree - my beta request has been pending for a number of weeks.

Even shedding out $60 for a game I've not played or even know the final PC spec it too much a gamble.

the specs are on the main site, also that's like saying "i won't buy a new game from a retailer because i've never played it"

[Jabberwockee]

I agree.. if it was try-before-buy it wouldn't be a founders pack. It's like pre-ordering a game from gamestop. There's no trial for Borderlands 2 but I pre-ordered it anyway. As others have said, if you don't want to be a founder, buy a premium account after the game is released and you try the free version for a bit. I've started playing WTO in part because of all the people here feeding my game addiction via the forums (you ********!) but I doubt I'll spend any cash there. It's possible I might drop $20 or something at some point but I think I'll more likely play MWO

I'm a little curious about how much $80 in game money will buy you but it's not a problem for me to drop $30 or $60 on a game like this knowing there's a slight possibility it could sux0rs (thinking of the last few lines of Fanboys). $120... that's a bit much but for those building simulator seats I'm glad it's there for them. If they want to drop that many bills and get in the credits and stuff I think that's really cool

[Shivus]

Renan Ruivo, on 20 June 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

Ending the founder's offer before open beta officially begins. That is the difference.

If people are getting the founder's pack because they want to offer support, then they can't claim its wrong for other people to be able to buy it after open beta begins.

There's no difference and no one is claiming that. Kickstarter functions to get funding for a title usually before it goes into alpha. One of the bonuses at certain price points is alpha and beta access, but you don't get those before buying that package, assuming the kickstarter succeeds, and the game actually progresses to an alpha or beta state. No one has a problem with founders packs coming back up after the 7th, it's just however PGI wants to handle it. I personally hope they'll also have preorder deals when the game gets closer to release.

[StarDreamer]

Alot of "founders" bashing "new" people that don't want to spend a lot of money without even trying it. Really gaming industry is one of the places where blind faith mostly gets you burned. There is no need to go down so hard on the "new" guys.

What I'm trying to say is that I won't be getting any of the founder packs. If I was in beta already I would seriously consider it depending on how much I liked the game. For me it is quite okay to wait until I've tried it before spending. I need to get a feel for the game that no trailer or gameplay video can convey. That shouldn't get any fans to go out and say I need to have more "faith".

What these new people want to get across is that they would be intrested in spending cash right now if they knew what they were jumping into.

A recent example of this would be world of tanks where I got to try the game quite extensively before it entered retail. I got a "preorder pack" for that game. If I get into beta at a later stage and if there are some sort of preorder packs I'll look into those.

[Scryed]

Shiiiiiiieeeeeetttt! for 120 bucks the game better play me, playing a mechwarrior, piloting a mech, in a beta!

[SpiralRazor]

Koenig, on 20 June 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Never because I don't buy games before they are released unless I know they are good because I have played a demo or participated in the beta. Also, AAA titles charge around $60, MWO is $120 for the full deal.

Ultimately you are missing the point though. I'm not asking to play the game first before I buy. I just want to see what the general reviews are before slapping down $120. With COD or BF, I would be able to do this.

Many here have scoffed at what I have suggested, they also all have legendary forum tags, funny that.

I have to agree...this is much more like a kickstarter program for more and better content..its really not there for you to be able to test the game out. If youre not familiar with the Kickstarter concept, id suggest looking at it via google and checking some games out that are currently open for donations. The devs put rewards at certain tiers. Its great system and ive contributed to $10-$15 to both Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun because of it.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 20 June 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[Koenig]

Shivus, on 20 June 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

They're approaching it incorrectly from the idea that this is a one time purchase title. If it were, their criticisms would be valid. But it's not. In a premium free to play title you get the full deal, the full game, from not spending a single penny on it. You can access everything a legendary founder can access sans the founders mechs, but those are bonuses anyway with nothing more than a c-bill bonus. Drop some money for a premium account, custom paint jobs, what have you along the way, aside from aesthetics and the benefits of more c-bills and xp from a battle, free is the full game.

Ok, so finally a rational response to an honest question.

Thank you.

Now, I was under the impression that the 4 extra founder mechs would, as a side effect, give you an extra 4 garage slots. Conceivabley, that could open up more games where there are restrictions on what you are allowed to field. Non-founders might need to keep a slot available and buy/sell stock to participate in these games. This is just an example though, I can think of a couple others where it would be beneficial to have bought the founder pack after the game was released.

Generally I think a lot of people (not you) are getting the wrong idea here. I don;t think anyone (I'm certainly not) is complaining about the FP per se. Just asking why won't be available after release.

[Renan Ruivo]

Shivus, on 20 June 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

There's no difference and no one is claiming that. Kickstarter functions to get funding for a title usually before it goes into alpha. One of the bonuses at certain price points is alpha and beta access, but you don't get those before buying that package, assuming the kickstarter succeeds, and the game actually progresses to an alpha or beta state. No one has a problem with founders packs coming back up after the 7th, it's just however PGI wants to handle it. I personally hope they'll also have preorder deals when the game gets closer to release.

Exactly. The problem is with how PGI wants to handle it.

By all means, they have all the rights in the world to handle this the way they want. I get why they are doing this, its a sales pitch. A gamble. If they offer the packs after the open beta begins they are afraid that people will decide its not worth it, and this has me worried.


I want to buy a lengendary pack and i have to money for it, however i now am finding it very uncharacteristical of them having to resort to such methods. They are choosing to bank on the fans love for the series and do so without giving the option for them to even catch a glimpse of what they are getting.


It isn't the end of the world, nor will it make me want to boycott the title (of course not). But there is no good excuse for not doing it either. It can't possibly hurt the sales, and will only add to their names. Like saying "We are so confident that this is good material that we are extending or offer so that you can see for yourselves".

[Koenig]

SpiralRazor, on 20 June 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

I have to agree...this is much more like a kickstarter program for more and better content..its really not there for you to be able to test the game out. If youre not familiar with the Kickstarter concept, id suggest looking at it via google and checking some games out that are currently open for donations. The devs put rewards at certain tiers. Its great system and ive contributed to $10-$15 to both Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun because of it.

I'm sorry but I have to ask: Did you even read the post you were replying to?

[gregsolidus]

First it was old players demanding beta access because they were old fans and now its new players demanding beta access so they can justify a donation they are misinterpreting as a pre-order.

Edited by gregsolidus, 20 June 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[nightmare]

It's quite logical for anyone who hasn't seen an actual product, or sample it for that matter, to be a bit aprehensive about shelling out big-time dough. I would be one of those skeptics. On the other hand, however, the reviews have been well received and the demos look fantastic. So I have to remain optimistic.

Face it people: these guys know better than try to pull off what would be one of the biggest scams (aside from that Facebook fiasco) to come along in a while without knowing Law Enforcement would come down hard on them--not to mention the class action suites that would follow.

Buy or don't buy the Founders Pack. Nobody is forcing you one way or the other. Those of us in the forums need to lay off the skeptics and let them rant. After all, isn't that what forums are for?

Edited by nightmare, 20 June 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[LackofCertainty]

This thread is silly.

Renan Ruivo, on 20 June 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Exactly. The problem is with how PGI wants to handle it.

By all means, they have all the rights in the world to handle this the way they want. I get why they are doing this, its a sales pitch. A gamble. If they offer the packs after the open beta begins they are afraid that people will decide its not worth it, and this has me worried.


I want to buy a lengendary pack and i have to money for it, however i now am finding it very uncharacteristical of them having to resort to such methods. They are choosing to bank on the fans love for the series and do so without giving the option for them to even catch a glimpse of what they are getting.


It isn't the end of the world, nor will it make me want to boycott the title (of course not). But there is no good excuse for not doing it either. It can't possibly hurt the sales, and will only add to their names. Like saying "We are so confident that this is good material that we are extending or offer so that you can see for yourselves".

There is a very good reason for doing so. They are selling prestige.

There are a lot of hardcore fans on the forums who have been literally begging PGI to take their money for months. So, this founder's stunt suits the needs of both sides. PGI gets some capital for servers and paying the bills, and the hardcore "take-my-money!" fans get to throw down money for the game. PGI could've accomplished the same thing by opening a Paypal account, but instead they decided to give the hardcore a few perks for their generosity and support.

Glass half-full, everyone wins, and no one loses. If you are hesitant about whether or not you want a founders, then, seriously, don't buy a founders. At worst it'll be like missing out on a sale and then deciding you're going to buy later anyway, but it's not going to break the game if you don't buy it. Chill out, and wait patiently, or pay and wait patiently. (but for a little bit less time )


P.S.
One more time for the people in the cheap seats. If you're unsure about whether or not you want a founder's, then the founder's is not for you. Worst case scenario you'll just spend a little bit of money on the game post launch. Honestly, seeings as PGI has been upfront that they're releasing the game asap and even had to pull community warfare from launch, you'll probably have a -better- experience if you just wait till the game is out with a couple months of polish before you get into it.

PGI won't have a demo, because:
1) this is not a single player game.
2) the game is in closed beta, and a lot of customers get turned off by rough products.
3) the game is going to be F2P, so anyone who wants a demo can just wait till open beta.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 20 June 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[Koenig]

gregsolidus, on 20 June 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

First it was old players demanding beta access because they were old fans and now its new players demanding beta access so they can justify a donation they are misinterpreting as a pre-order.

You must be in the wrong thread because nobody in here is demanding beta access.

Again, the problem is the "get it before its too late" gimmick. I have no problem waiting for the full release and also completely willing to spend the full $120. What the people in this thread are talking about is how it's strange that is not an option. When you factor in how much PG pushes the NDA, you would have to be a fool not to have asked the same question.

[Renan Ruivo]

LackofCertainty, on 20 June 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

This thread is silly.




There is a very good reason for doing so. They are selling prestige.

There are a lot of hardcore fans on the forums who have been literally begging PGI to take their money for months. So, this founder's stunt suits the needs of both sides. PGI gets some capital for servers and paying the bills, and the hardcore "take-my-money!" fans get to throw down money for the game. PGI could've accomplished the same thing by opening a Paypal account, but instead they decided to give the hardcore a few perks for their generocity and support.

Glass half-full, everyone wins, and no one loses.

By your explanation, the same hardcore fans would still have bought the pack wether it expired before open beta or not. There is still no good reason for them to make the deal expire before open beta ... well ... opens. No good reason for us, at any rate.

[Lou Cypher]

Koenig, on 20 June 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Never because I don't buy games before they are released unless I know they are good because I have played a demo or participated in the beta. Also, AAA titles charge around $60, MWO is $120 for the full deal.

Ultimately you are missing the point though. I'm not asking to play the game first before I buy. I just want to see what the general reviews are before slapping down $120. With COD or BF, I would be able to do this.

Many here have scoffed at what I have suggested, they also all have legendary forum tags, funny that.

MWO is Free! The early access and bonuses are what the founders are paying for. As well as supporting a dream come true after waiting for a decade. Wish people would get this through their heads already.

Edited by Lou Cypher, 20 June 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[Samson]

I don't begrudge anyone not wanting to fork out a game that all we've seen is some gameplay footage. We can't hear comments from the current crop of beta testers due to the NDA and I've had games where I've met the minimum requirements but it doesn't play well at all. If you find yourself hesitating buying a founders pack, don't. Everyone who doesn't brings valid points to the discussion. I don't want to fork over the extra $60 for the legendary pack. That's my opinion.

You shouldn't bash someone because they don't want to pay for something you do. I don't like blue cheese, I personally think it's disgusting. You don't see me standing in by the cheeses in a supermarket telling people "Don't buy blue cheese, it's gross. You should by some gouda. You'll regret it otherwise"