You know I was playing tabletop yesterday. (Megamek actually, so rolls weren't in my control).
4 mediums versus 4 mediums. The mechs that jumped could barely hit anything; mostly misses. When they did hit they weren't particularly good hits at all. Meanwhile the mechs that stayed on the ground had incredible accuracy.
I know that there needs to be something done to JJs, but what exactly, I don't know.
I simply don't bother trying to carry non-JJ capable mechs (with the 3L being the lone exception at the moment). The current movement code and even maps make non-JJ capable mechs feel rather undesirable to drive at times.
While back when feedback for the movement code was taken, I believe what I said was that it took some time to get adjusted, but the reality is that (and I've said before, within the same thread) that the movement code SERIOUSLY needs to be refined.
I feel like every relatively important comment is shot into some sort of windtunnel followed by an echo chamber. To just "add a feature" and not work on it until later will eventually start creating problems down the line (balance and otherwise) where even just "fixing bugs" as a result of building on an incomplete feature/foundation becomes more problematic.
You know I was playing tabletop yesterday. (Megamek actually, so rolls weren't in my control).
4 mediums versus 4 mediums. The mechs that jumped could barely hit anything; mostly misses. When they did hit they weren't particularly good hits at all. Meanwhile the mechs that stayed on the ground had incredible accuracy.
Hey Koniving, I usually play on Sundays with the 1st Ghost but I'm down for Megamek anytime!
Hey Koniving, I usually play on Sundays with the 1st Ghost but I'm down for Megamek anytime!
Sounds good. Me and Lordred (perfect screenshot thread) are looking into the idea of a campaign. Also look up "King Crab Versus Dire Wolf" in the search bar here; one on one fight between the two on Megamek got posted up.
I agree.
Speaking of ideas in the wind tunnel, I'm sure you heard about the armor concept at some point right? Stock armor tonnage + set number = new max armor tonnage.
As you might recall the reason the word "tonnage" is used instead of value or points is because you can get the 'same' tonnage with any kind of armor. (This means Ferro will be more useful; you can put it on and have equal points in armor to save weight, or you can match the tonnage you had in standard armor to have more protection).
Many mechs benefit from this. (The Locust especially; though most locusts can't even hold use that much armor). Some surpassing their current limits. The Awesome in almost every comparison being 80 points to over 100 points greater in armor to Victors. Dragons having the armor necessary to live up to their tabletop reputation as "Brawlers" as well as the fact that the Dragon 1-C is just half a ton less in armor to the most armored Stalker. Shadowhawks inferior to Hunchbacks. Griffins comparable. Kintaros superior. Wolverines top of the line. It's a huge changer.
As mentioned just above, some mechs also get hurt by it. The Shadowhawk in particular was never known for having much armor as it's a recon and fire support mech; not an all out brawler. In fact it's mostly meta mechs that get hurt; mechs that are meta because they abuse MWO and TT's "everyone gets equal max armor" rule which has alienated diversity.
Anyway, the biggest thing is whether or not it would be viable even on the mechs it would hurt or nerf (which happens despite every mech getting identical treatment of stock + 3 tons), right? Welp, the Jagermech is one of the mechs most hurt by it (because it's stock armor and lore is 'paper thin'). The Jagermech JM6-S is the one most impacted by it. It is also one of the most potentially powerful mechs due to its high autocannon potential.
So the question is... will it be able to BRAWL with machine guns, small lasers and PPCs at the new armor value (6 tons + 3 tons [192 points + 96 points])? Check it out!
Spoiler
Koniving, on 01 June 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:
So, working on the new spreadsheet. I've added some entries (because the original equations took stock armor points and added ferro and standard maxes to that which causes problems with mechs that already have it. Their tonnage in armor and a tonnage correction for 'issues' have been added.
Fun fact: Tabletop literally is 18 points per ton Ferro, which means the mechs in MWO with ferro are shortened in how much armor they can have; our concept not only works but fits back into tabletop!
But of course there's one problem.
The mechs that receive reduced armor... will they still be viable? Jager S, 192 points. With 3 tons, it goes up to 288 standard. Is that measily amount viable?
I didn't just want to find out if it was viable for sharp shooting; it's too easy to get false data. So I made a brawling rig with MGs and PPCs and small lasers to find out.
Of all the mechs, the Jagermech is one of the two mechs hit the hardest by this concept.
Here's what happened on the first run.
Spoiler
If I can do that brawling, I think a player could get away with sharp shooting and so on.
The next test will be if I can do it with the concept's new engine caps. All that free tonnage, I'll be channeling that into either a standard engine or more ammo.
I agree.
Speaking of ideas in the wind tunnel, I'm sure you heard about the armor concept at some point right? Stock armor tonnage + set number = new max armor tonnage.
As you might recall the reason the word "tonnage" is used instead of value or points is because you can get the 'same' tonnage with any kind of armor. (This means Ferro will be more useful; you can put it on and have equal points in armor to save weight, or you can match the tonnage you had in standard armor to have more protection).
Anyway, the biggest thing is whether or not it would be viable even on the mechs it would hurt, right? Welp, the Jagermech is one of the mechs most hurt by it (because it's stock armor and lore is 'paper thin'). The Jagermech JM6-S is the one most impacted by it.
So the question is... will it be able to BRAWL with machine guns, small lasers and PPCs at the new armor value (6 tons + 3 tons [192 points + 96 points])? Check it out!
I'll have to think about it... you probably need pictures and diagrams so I can at least dwell on how it'll all work.
It's hard to get thinking about this game when the devs do a lot to make you think less.
I'll have to think about it... you probably need pictures and diagrams so I can at least dwell on how it'll all work.
It's hard to get thinking about this game when the devs do a lot to make you think less.
Working on an excel chart. But since someone else made it for me there were some mistakes that I'm working over and fixing. (He took stock armor points and then added the 3 tons standard and ferro to that, causing some pretty out of whack things). Non-canon Hero-mechs designed by the NGNG community will need adjustments to be brought in line with canon. (For example no Victor in the history of canon has as much armor as the Dragon Slayer.)
Btw.. ever wondered why not all BT mechs are as great as MWO's mechs?
The typical changes first changes done to a Jagermech in MWO and what it'd take in TT.
"Removed 200 fusion engine for 300.
converted to endo structure.
standard heatsinks to doubles.
Removed several heatsinks.
1.6 years (partially due to mechanic incompetence) and 2 months to find parts and have them shipped."
You know I was playing tabletop yesterday. (Megamek actually, so rolls weren't in my control).
4 mediums versus 4 mediums. The mechs that jumped could barely hit anything; mostly misses. When they did hit they weren't particularly good hits at all. Meanwhile the mechs that stayed on the ground had incredible accuracy.
Jump jets in the board game are one of the highest BV increasing items in the game, though. The weapons used by HoL during the finals can arguably be considered meta for even the board game; a jump capable 'Mech armed with PPC's and Gauss rifles is about as efficient as you can get in Battletech, until Clans come with large pulse lasers and targeting computers.
Finally I got my hands on the Dragon Slayer. I missed the last sale. This is a funny opportunity to get a mech but who cares?
So
Lights: 3 mechs and 4 variants (SDR-5D/SDR-3K/JR7-7F/EMBER)
Mediums: 1 mech and 3 variants (SHD-2H/SHD-2D2/SHD-5M)
Heavy: 1 mech and 1 variant (CTF-3D)
Assault: 1 mech and 1 variant (VTR-DS)
All jump jets, everything over lights (where there's minimum variability) are mechs that excel at a single play style. There's nothing wrong with this at all, of course there's game balance!
Variability in lights, of course, has nothing to do with the fact that none of them run AC/PPC's very well (more than one).
Jump Jets need serious love, pin point weapons need to be re-tuned badly. Of course a whole pile of new weapons that need balancing are about to be released, so good luck.
I'm gonna guess it's a collection of all of the mechs in the matches that occurred on Friday.
Nope, I spent time collecting the data on what Mechs and variants appeared when for the whole tournament.
Spider-5K never made a showing at all in the 5 rounds.
Shadow Hawk-2D2 has not been seen since Round 3.
Shadow Hawk-2H was used by SJR, not HoL.
Interesting question from all this data PGI could use for a contest.
Name the 2 Mechs that did not appear in the whole tournament.
LocationStomping around in a giant robot, of course.
Posted 02 June 2014 - 06:33 AM
Quote
The mechs that jumped could barely hit anything; mostly misses. When they did hit they weren't particularly good hits at all. Meanwhile the mechs that stayed on the ground had incredible accuracy.
That's because MWO jumpers end up with a miracle aimbuff the second they turn off the jets, somehow causing them to have rock-solid firing platforms whilst floating down.
Nope, I spent time collecting the data on what Mechs and variants appeared when for the whole tournament.
Spider-5K never made a showing at all in the 5 rounds.
Shadow Hawk-2D2 has not been seen since Round 3.
Shadow Hawk-2H was used by SJR, not HoL.
Interesting question from all this data PGI could use for a contest.
Name the 2 Mechs that did not appear in the whole tournament.
Clearly you were bored.
If I were to hazard a guess....
1) Locust (srsly Lolcust) - While you can get away with this in PUGs, having a "waste of a mech" for 12-mans is not worth it.
2) Kintaro - From my understanding, LRMs were at a minimum, so this mech doesn't have much to show for it. At least with the Trebuchet or Griffin, they have JJs, so you could do a few things with them.
There's a few others like Battlemaster, Quickdraw, Trebuchet. and Awesome... but those are the first to come to mind.
Damn you, PGI... even with the clans just 2 weeks out, half price on a DS was just too good to pass up..... So I guess I have a meta-Mech now, too....
Me too. Couldn't pass up the 50% off DS. I had a 9S for a while so had to buy a 9K to go with them so I can elite/master them. I guess I'm an "assault pilot" now. (As if owning 3 variants of a chassis makes one a "pilot")
My poor little mediums are gonna miss me for a while until they're leveled up
1) Locust (srsly Lolcust) - While you can get away with this in PUGs, having a "waste of a mech" for 12-mans is not worth it.
2) Kintaro - From my understanding, LRMs were at a minimum, so this mech doesn't have much to show for it. At least with the Trebuchet or Griffin, they have JJs, so you could do a few things with them.
There's a few others like Battlemaster, Quickdraw, Trebuchet. and Awesome... but those are the first to come to mind.
I know I saw at least one Battlemaster, and there were two LRM boat Awesomes on the Aces team early on. I'm pretty sure there were Quickdraws, too, but can't speak for any of the others. Locust is a no brainer, but not sure if it was Kintaro or Trench for the other.
I know I saw at least one Battlemaster, and there were two LRM boat Awesomes on the Aces team early on. I'm pretty sure there were Quickdraws, too, but can't speak for any of the others. Locust is a no brainer, but not sure if it was Kintaro or Trench for the other.
Well, I kept being told when tonnage limits were in discussion (before that idea was aborted and changed into 3/3/3/3) that "the Locust would have value when tonnage limits were implemented".
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This topic is locked
Koniving, on 01 June 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:
