75 replies to this topic

[Dracol]

My vote would be to leave in Arm-lock but make it only changeable within settings. This leaves it in for those who need it, but removes the benefit of switching between the two during combat.

[SirLANsalot]

If you have weapons in the arm and torso on the same grouping, then arm lock is a godsend, because it lets you get all your weapons to track together, instead of the arm ones flying off into lala land when you adjust to stay on target. Great for mechs like the AS7-D/K when you have 4 ML, and 2 are in the CT, quickly hold Shift to get all 4 to track.


If you do not have weapons that are mixed between torso and arms, then its a hindrance to have it on, as it prevents you from aiming above your head on hills or at your feet. Also it inhibits your ability to track light mechs with your faster tracking arms. However your arms track at the speed of your mouses DPI/Sensitivity, so for some it might be a good idea to drop your DPI during a match. I actually run 2 DPI's on my mouse, one for ingame, one for not. Out of game I run a high 3200 DPI, but ingame thats wayyyy too sensitive to stay on track of anything. So I drop it to 500DPI and everything smooths out far better. Why MWO is the only game I need to do that with is still a mystery, but it also is the only game that has TWO different things that track. FPS games all just track on one ridicule, MWO, as we know, tracks with 2.

[Mycrus]

SirLANsalot, on 01 June 2014 - 08:15 PM, said:

If you have weapons in the arm and torso on the same grouping, then arm lock is a godsend, because it lets you get all your weapons to track together, instead of the arm ones flying off into lala land when you adjust to stay on target. Great for mechs like the AS7-D/K when you have 4 ML, and 2 are in the CT, quickly hold Shift to get all 4 to track.


If you do not have weapons that are mixed between torso and arms, then its a hindrance to have it on, as it prevents you from aiming above your head on hills or at your feet. Also it inhibits your ability to track light mechs with your faster tracking arms. However your arms track at the speed of your mouses DPI/Sensitivity, so for some it might be a good idea to drop your DPI during a match. I actually run 2 DPI's on my mouse, one for ingame, one for not. Out of game I run a high 3200 DPI, but ingame thats wayyyy too sensitive to stay on track of anything. So I drop it to 500DPI and everything smooths out far better. Why MWO is the only game I need to do that with is still a mystery, but it also is the only game that has TWO different things that track. FPS games all just track on one ridicule, MWO, as we know, tracks with 2.

2 reticule is what makes this game skill based..


In pgi infinite wisdom they decided to build a way to negate this totally

[SirLANsalot]

Mycrus, on 01 June 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

2 reticule is what makes this game skill based..


In pgi infinite wisdom they decided to build a way to negate this totally

Previous MW titles didn't have that system. MW4 kinda was close but there was no benefit to using your arms separately. This is why a joystick work back then for Mechwarrior. However MWO is a new game, and a new generation, and is not meant to be used with a joystick. However those that cried and cried finally got there joystick based gameplay they wanted, and armlock is what they needed to make it work. Armlock in this game tho is a death sentence in 90% of the mechs and using a joystick, abit fun, isn't worth the effort and major drawbacks.

If you must use a joystick, then at least learn to pilot the right mechs that work best with them. The Jagermech, Stalker, Catapult, Blackjack, Yen-Lo-Wang are all mechs/chassis with no lower arm actuation, making using a joystick with them a tad bit more natural. Oh and Clan mechs with PPC/Ballistics in both arms will work too as that also removes the lower arm actuator.

[Mycrus]

SirLANsalot, on 01 June 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Previous MW titles didn't have that system. MW4 kinda was close but there was no benefit to using your arms separately. This is why a joystick work back then for Mechwarrior. However MWO is a new game, and a new generation, and is not meant to be used with a joystick. However those that cried and cried finally got there joystick based gameplay they wanted, and armlock is what they needed to make it work. Armlock in this game tho is a death sentence in 90% of the mechs and using a joystick, abit fun, isn't worth the effort and major drawbacks.

If you must use a joystick, then at least learn to pilot the right mechs that work best with them. The Jagermech, Stalker, Catapult, Blackjack, Yen-Lo-Wang are all mechs/chassis with no lower arm actuation, making using a joystick with them a tad bit more natural. Oh and Clan mechs with PPC/Ballistics in both arms will work too as that also removes the lower arm actuator.

The game does not support joystick. Full stop.

we first order throttle and turning

But aiming is coded as zero order and the mouse reigns supreme.

I use a joystick knowing full well that I am gimping my aim

[SirLANsalot]

Mycrus, on 01 June 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

I use a joystick knowing full well that I am gimping my TEAM

FIFY

[Mycrus]

SirLANsalot, on 01 June 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

FIFY

I don't care.

I probably do better than you in mouse with my hotas.

Care to 1v1 to prove it?

[Mcgral18]

E N E R G Y, on 01 June 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

Arm Lock ON is superior, end of story.

Ask the old-school pilots, ask FPS players, ask snipers, duh duh duh duh

The arm lock "OFF" fad only came with new players entering MWO who don't realize convergence or reflexive shots.

....Actually you're better off with it turned off, so you can actually hit things above your torso pitch.

Then, you see, there is this handy SHIFT key which switches to whichever mode you don't have it set to. So, when you required pinpoint magical instantaneous convergence, you press it and watch things fly apart. This leaves your arm weapons to actually hit things high or low.

[Octavian]

I group arm and torso weapons separately for a reason. Rarely toggle arm lock on except to quickly center the arms.

[Bishop Steiner]

E N E R G Y, on 01 June 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

Arm Lock ON is superior, end of story.

Ask the old-school pilots, ask FPS players, ask snipers, duh duh duh duh

The arm lock "OFF" fad only came with new players entering MWO who don't realize convergence or reflexive shots.

that's adorable.


wrong, but adorable, nonetheless.

[Koniving]

Aresye, on 31 May 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

It doesn't break the game.

Compare to closed beta and early open beta when mechs had to use CTRL to get pinpoint aiming of between 10 to 30 maximum and it couldn't include their torsos to now, where torso + arm weapons = pinpoint damages of 30 to 45 per trigger squeeze. Some mechs can get up to 65 in a single pinpoint shot.

It breaks the game substantially.

You can hear UAC/5s here firing 3 times faster than they currently do, and yet mechs could easily survive them.


Versus this.


Before Armlock, even with poptarts in existence, this was meta.

...Do you see a single poptart? Or Twin PPC + AC/5? None of them were compatible because almost no one had arm weapons with both types (except the Dragon).

Edited by Koniving, 01 June 2014 - 09:14 PM.

[Eglar]

Dymlos2003, on 31 May 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Well what I'm really talking about is the instant torso movement you get when you toggle it on. Move your arms all the way to the side press the toggle and your torso INSTANTLY goes to your arms. That's the broken part of it. Atleast fix that.

lolwut? that's just wrong. (i mean your statement)

[Dymlos2003]

Eglar, on 01 June 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

lolwut? that's just wrong. (i mean your statement)

The insta thing? Yeah quite silly.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 01 June 2014 - 09:29 PM.

[Eglar]

Dymlos2003, on 01 June 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

The insta thing? Yeah quite silly.

ok, let's revise your statement:

Dymlos2003, on 31 May 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Move your arms all the way to the side press the toggle and your torso INSTANTLY goes to your arms. That's the broken part of it.

• It's not instant, it's MAX arm movement speed.
  
• It's not the torso that moves to the arms, it's the arms that snaps to the torso.

I have armlock (default shift) on mouse button4 and use it ALOT and I am playing with a fairly high mouse sensitivity (0.6 on lights 0.9 on others). It's the Crosshair, not the circle you want to aim with when toggling armlock. What many newer players precieve as "torso moving to the arms" is your cockpit field of view that instantly gets reset when toggling armlock , not the torso.

[KharnZor]

E N E R G Y, on 01 June 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

Arm Lock ON is superior, end of story.

I'm surprised you'd make such a statement considering your skill lvl.
You are wrong of course.

[zazz0000]

Who's spreading these rumors about torso instantly snapping to arms?? That's entirely not true.
When you engage arm lock with arms deflected, the camera instantly snaps to dead center, and both arms and torso drift towards each other (arms moving fast as hell), and it NEVER lands on the spot where either the torso or the arms were aimed at. If anyone could, please provide some video of it actually used to pull off a wicked sick snapshot.

With that said, I like my arm lock the way it is (ie ON). I'll turn it off on "when I need to" basis, but that's only about 10% of actual combat duty. Removing it completely will not improve the game, simply alienate a portion of users, and nerf/buff certain mechs.

There was a thread about the same thing about a month ago btw, PGI chimed in, saying that they encourage users to use their preferred style and have no plans on changing the system. They asked to point out any possible exploits, if such existed.

[Utilyan]

Right now its just a "hold" should be a TOGGLE.

[Dymlos2003]

Eglar, on 01 June 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

ok, let's revise your statement:

• It's not instant, it's MAX arm movement speed.
  
• It's not the torso that moves to the arms, it's the arms that snaps to the torso.

I have armlock (default shift) on mouse button4 and use it ALOT and I am playing with a fairly high mouse sensitivity (0.6 on lights 0.9 on others). It's the Crosshair, not the circle you want to aim with when toggling armlock. What many newer players precieve as "torso moving to the arms" is your cockpit field of view that instantly gets reset when toggling armlock , not the torso.

Torso Crosshair moves to the arm crosshair instantly. How you don't see this I don't know. You also use it a lot cause it gives you a clear advantage. It's a broke mechanic and should be banned.

Or non toggle-able during game.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 01 June 2014 - 10:03 PM.

[zazz0000]

Dymlos2003, on 01 June 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Torso Crosshair moves to the arm crosshair instantly. How you don't see this I don't know. You also use it a lot cause it gives you a clear advantage. It's a broke mechanic and should be banned.

Picture or it didn't happen bro. And if you do provide the picture, PGI would love to see it and (hopefully) fix it. Their words.

Edit: You do understand that, in order for it to work like you've stated, the torso would have to exceed its maximum allowable twist speed? Cuz if it's not exceeding, it's not instant, and therefore not broken.

Edited by zazz0000, 01 June 2014 - 10:10 PM.

[n r g]

Mcgral18, on 01 June 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

....Actually you're better off with it turned off, so you can actually hit things above your torso pitch.

Then, you see, there is this handy SHIFT key which switches to whichever mode you don't have it set to. So, when you required pinpoint magical instantaneous convergence, you press it and watch things fly apart. This leaves your arm weapons to actually hit things high or low.

You do realize some mechs have no weapons on their arms right kid? Also, mechs with only 1 arm with weapons I simply prefer to use SHIFT to unlock the arms and fire and go back to 100% convergence.

It's better eh? feel free to add me for a 1v1 to show me.

Also , anyone else here who wants some games I would love to test things out with you regarding armlock so add me on MWO friends so we can do some private matches.