12 replies to this topic

[Shlkt]

Players generally understand that ambient temperature affects 'Mech performance, but to what extent? How big of a difference does it make to drop on Tourmaline vs. Frozen City Night? I couldn't find answers to those questions so I did some experiments and digging around in the game files. A few conclusions are below.

• Ambient temperature affects both heat dissipation and heat capacity. The biggest effect (percentage-wise) is applied to heat dissipation.
  
• The flavor text displayed while the map is loading (e.g. "Ambient Temperature: 30 C") does not accurately reflect the heat effects of the map.
  
• Although Tourmaline has the hottest "flavor text" at 97 C, the in-game heat effects are significantly lower than Terra Therma. In other words, Terra Therma is actually hotter.
  
• Forest Colony and Forest Colony Snow actually have nearly identical in-game temperature value, despite having different flavor text (30 C vs. -2 C)
  
• Your mech's heat bar actually idles at a negative value on cold maps, even though you can't see it, due to the heat capacity effects.

If you open the games .pak files you can find XML mission descriptions for each map. These files contain an actual temperature number (ranging from -0.5 to 0.5) which affects heat capacity and/or heat dissipation for the map.

The temperature number is applied directly to your mech's heat dissipation in terms of heat per second. For example, the temperature value on Terra Therma is 0.5. That means that your mech generates an extra 0.5 heat/sec at all times. The important thing to note about the ambient temperature's affect on your 'Mech is that it doesn't scale according to your base heat dissipation:

• A fully mastered 'Mech with 20 DHS (10 internal) will only feel a 13% heat dissipation penalty on Terra Therma
  
• A basic stock 'Mech with 10 SHS, on the other hand, will feel a 50% heat dissipation penalty.

Woe to the MechWarrior who drops on Terra Therma with singles!

A few of the map temperature values are shown below (it would be great if these could be added to Smurfy's map viewer! They're available in the game files, hint hint):

• Frozen City Night: -0.5
  
• Forest Colony: 0
  
• Forest Colony Snow: -0.1
  
• Tourmaline: 0.3
  
• Terra Therma: 0.5

... so the heat dissipation difference between Frozen City and Terra Therma is a whopping 1.0 heat/sec, the equivalent of 7 extra double heat sinks.

Edited by Shlkt, 07 June 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[Ixios]

Hey there,

So I did some theorycrafting a while back, Let me know if any of this is helpful.

----

Based off and ingame testing:
http://mwomercs.com/...ms/topic/71352- ... -sighting/

Modification to Heat Dissipation every 1sec = ((Temperature of map - 30)*0.5)/10
Modification to Heat capacity = - ((Temperature of map - 30)*0.5)/10

So I made a spreadsheet to expand upon this:
https://docs.google....p=sharing#gid=0
(Download the sheet for manipulation)

What does this all mean:

Based of normal (30degrees C ) heat dissipation:
- Frozen city adds 0.5Hps dissipation AND increases your maximum heat capacity by a maximum 9.6%
- Terra therma reduces heat dissipation by 0.34Hps AND decreases your maximum heat capacity by a maximum 5.6%

The increase in heat capacity is actually not shown on the heat scale HUD, but if you test it you can see that you're heat scale actually sits below 0%.

Other points of interest:
- Moving adds 0.2 HpS.
- Terra Therma has "hot Spots" that increase ambient temperature. This will effect your dissipation and capacity. Not investigated.

----

The spread sheet is out of date ( doesn't contain Crimson or HPG), but hopefully it'll give you something to work on. Feel free to ask me any questions.

Cheers,
Ix

Edited by Ixios, 05 June 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[Shlkt]

Ixios, on 05 June 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

Based of normal (30degrees C ) heat dissipation:
- Frozen city adds 0.5Hps dissipation AND increases your maximum heat capacity by a maximum 9.6%
- Terra therma reduces heat dissipation by 0.34Hps AND decreases your maximum heat capacity by a maximum 5.6%

My own experiments showed that heat dissipation effects were unrelated to the reported "flavor text" temperature. This can be clearly seen by evaluating 'mech performance on Tourmaline vs. Terra Therma. Both of these maps have nearly identical "flavor text" at 97 C and 95 C, repsectively. But their hidden temperature values in the .pak files are are 0.3 and 0.5 - quite a big difference.

Measurements that I made in the testing grounds agreed with the 0.3 and 0.5 heat/sec values.

This is how I [attempted] to accurately measure heat dissipation:
I launched into the testing grounds with a JR7-F. Started a stopwatch with my left hand while firing lasers with my right. I fired lasers as frequently as possible without shutting down for approximately 30-60 seconds. I then stopped the stopwatch at the instant the heat scale fell back to its original/idle value.

Based on the # of lasers fired I can calculate the exact heat that should have been produced, and the stopwatch times indicates how long it took to dissipate the heat. Firing continuously for a long period of time reduces the magnitude of human error using the stopwatch (i.e. 0.1 seconds of timing error compared to 60 seconds is inconsequential).

The measured heat dissipation effects agreed within 1 or 2% with the 0.3 and 0.5 figures above. I did not test "hot spots", though, so I'm not sure what effects those have. I'll do some more testing on those spots tonight.

Edited by Shlkt, 05 June 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[Shlkt]

Update: Both Caustic Valley and Terra Therma have regions of higher temperature.

The caldera in Caustic Valley has a temperature value of 0.8 compared to 0.3 on the rest of the map. That's currently the hottest place in the game aside from standing directly in lava.

The lava lake in the center of Terra Therma has a temperature value of 0.6 compared to 0.5 for the rest of the map.

These values were verified experimentally and can also be seen inside the mission XML files. Once again, they are subtracted directly from your mech's heat dissipation. They also affect your heat capacity.

My current best estimate for how the value affects heat capacity is (Temperature * 10); i.e. on Terra Therma you'll idle at 5 heat instead of 0. This formula is a little trickier to verify though due to limited resolution on the in-game heat scale.

[Ixios]

Shlkt, on 05 June 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Update: Both Caustic Valley and Terra Therma have regions of higher temperature.

The caldera in Caustic Valley has a temperature value of 0.8 compared to 0.3 on the rest of the map. That's currently the hottest place in the game aside from standing directly in lava.

The lava lake in the center of Terra Therma has a temperature value of 0.6 compared to 0.5 for the rest of the map.

These values were verified experimentally and can also be seen inside the mission XML files. Once again, they are subtracted directly from your mech's heat dissipation. They also affect your heat capacity.

My current best estimate for how the value affects heat capacity is (Temperature * 10); i.e. on Terra Therma you'll idle at 5 heat instead of 0. This formula is a little trickier to verify though due to limited resolution on the in-game heat scale.

Are these hotspots heat effects also in the XMLs?
Seems weird that the caldera in caustic is hotter then the central platforms in mount doom. Additionally It would be interesting to find out what the heat gain is from standing on the lava in terra therma.

Regarding the heat capacity heat from maps, I found the modification to heat change and heat capacity was the same equation. Of course like you've point out, there is a resolution error.

Nice work Shlkt, I'll review the xmls later, and update my spreadsheet accordingly.

Cheers,
Ix

[Koniving]

For those wondering, yes there are slight multipliers in specific areas of specific maps...

But the general heat modifies are available here. "Build" your mech with basic information, apply skills, select the map. Enjoy the heat simulator.

[Ixios]

Seems like there has been more testing since I last looked into it a year ago.

Koniving's tests conclude that the heat modifications are percentage based, dependant on number of heat sinks equipped, which I admit is something I never originally looked into.

I'm certainly more inclined to believe the game files on the heat modification values, if they are defined clearly that is.

You've both inspired me to carry out some further investigation.

Ix

[Shlkt]

Ixios, on 06 June 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

Koniving's tests conclude that the heat modifications are percentage based, dependant on number of heat sinks equipped, which I admit is something I never originally looked into.

The heat dissipation effect is definitely not percentage based, though the heat capacity effects might be - the latter part needs more testing.

Early in my process I wanted to work out whether the effects were percentage-based or not, so I performed testing with two different 'mechs with fairly different heat dissipation rates. I used a JR7-F w/ 13 DHS and also a CDA-2B with just 10 single heat sinks.

Baseline heat dissipation (2.78, 1.15 respectively) was affected by a constant amount on each map. In other words, the JR7-F was measured at ~2.48 on Tourmaline and the CDA-2B was measured at 0.85.

Quote

Are these hotspots heat effects also in the XMLs?
Seems weird that the caldera in caustic is hotter then the central platforms in mount doom. Additionally It would be interesting to find out what the heat gain is from standing on the lava in terra therma.

Yes, the hotspots are in the XMLs. Just search for "temp" and you should find all the relevant information scattered throughout the files. The coordinates of the hotspots are also listed.

I think the lava heat is also there, but I don't have the game files handy to confirm...

[MuonNeutrino]

I did some testing on these myself a little while back, I didn't realize the values were in the XML. Wish I did, would have saved me a lot of work. My methodology was roughly the same as Shlkt's, firing weapons of known heat generation on mechs with known heat capacities and dissipation rates and timing how long it took to return to neutral.

These results seem to match what I measured. Heat seems to act as a flat addition or subtraction of 1 point of heat capacity and 0.1 points of heat dissipation per 0.1 environment heat. The environment heats from the XML files seem to match what my testing indicated: 0.5 for terra therma, 0.3 for caustic and tourmaline, 0 for canyon/forest/crimson/river/river night, -0.1 for forest snow, -0.3 for HPG, and -0.5 for alpine, frozen, and frozen night.

The hotspots in the XML were something new to me. I knew that the crater on caustic and the caldera on therma were hotter, and I measured those at 0.8 and 0.6, matching the XML. There are also hot/cool spots listed on a few other maps as well, though, and I didn't know about them.

Forest colony and forest colony snow have a cool spot listed of -0.1 heat at coordinates (2832.8503,2328.7761,181.30315). If you go into the training grounds and find these coordinates, that turns out to be the waterfall at the corner of B4/B5/C4/C5, and when standing in it you do indeed read lower heat. It's not a very large amount (the difference between being at 3% heat while running on my spider and being at 1%), but it's there. Note that the whole regular forest colony map is not -0.1, just this cool spot. Since the whole map is already at -0.1 on forest colony snow, the cool spot on that version has no additional effect.

On frozen city, the map as a whole is -0.5 heat. However, there is a hot spot of 0.6 heat listed at coordinates (2034.8101,2330.083,192.5352). These coordinates turn out to be the fire on the nose of the dropship, and your heat does spike if you stand on it. Note that this fire is *not* present on forest colony night. Similarly, there is a hot spot of 0.8 heat listed on river city at coordinates (2597,1288,74.5), which turns out to be a burning building in C4. Standing on the fire does spike your heat, additionally, although they're not listed in the XML in any obvious way, the other burning buildings on the map behave the same way.

Finally, there is a cool spot of -0.1 heat listed at coordinates (2720.2053,940.83673,44.697056) on river city and river city night. These coordinates are in the small pool of water in D4, however running around that area I was not able to find any locations where my heat dipped, so I'm not sure what is up with this particular cool spot.

As well, the various lava rivers and lakes on terra therma are also listed in the XML. They have the same 0.5 environment heat as the rest of the map, but have various flags set which look like they have to do with the lava heat spike mechanic and leg damage.

Edit: oh, and yes, according to my tests running acts like an extra 0.2 environment heat.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 06 June 2014 - 04:19 PM.

[Shlkt]

Quote

Note that the whole regular forest colony map is not -0.1, just this cool spot.

Thanks for pointing that out. I must have misread the waterfall temperature as the global temperature. I've corrected the value in the OP.

[n r g]

Shlkt, on 04 June 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

Players generally understand that ambient temperature affects 'Mech performance, but to what extent? How big of a difference does it make to drop on Tourmaline vs. Frozen City Night? I couldn't find answers to those questions so I did some experiments and digging around in the game files. A few conclusions are below.

• Ambient temperature affects both heat dissipation and heat capacity. The biggest effect (percentage-wise) is applied to heat dissipation.
  
• The flavor text displayed while the map is loading (e.g. "Ambient Temperature: 30 C") does not accurately reflect the heat effects of the map.
  
• Although Tourmaline has the hottest "flavor text" at 97 C, the in-game heat effects are significantly lower than Terra Therma. In other words, Terra Therma is actually hotter.
  
• Forest Colony and Forest Colony Snow actually have nearly identical in-game temperature value, despite having different flavor text (30 C vs. -2 C)
  
• Your mech's heat bar actually idles at a negative value on cold maps, even though you can't see it, due to the heat capacity effects.

If you open the games .pak files you can find XML mission descriptions for each map. These files contain an actual temperature number (ranging from -0.5 to 0.5) which affects heat capacity and/or heat dissipation for the map.


The temperature number is applied directly to your mech's heat dissipation in terms of heat per second. For example, the temperature value on Terra Therma is 0.5. That means that your mech generates an extra 0.5 heat/sec at all times. The important thing to note about the ambient temperature's affect on your 'Mech is that it doesn't scale according to your base heat dissipation:

• A fully mastered 'Mech with 20 DHS (10 internal) will only feel a 13% heat dissipation penalty on Terra Therma
  
• A basic stock 'Mech with 10 SHS, on the other hand, will feel a 50% heat dissipation penalty.

Woe to the MechWarrior who drops on Terra Therma with singles!


A few of the map temperature values are shown below (it would be great if these could be added to Smurfy's map viewer! They're available in the game files, hint hint):

• Frozen City Night: -0.5
  
• Forest Colony: 0
  
• Forest Colony Snow: -0.1
  
• Tourmaline: 0.3
  
• Terra Therma: 0.5

... so the heat dissipation difference between Frozen City and Terra Therma is a whopping 1.0 heat/sec, the equivalent of 7 extra double heat sinks.

[Void Angel]

Shlkt, on 05 June 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

This is how I [attempted] to accurately measure heat dissipation:
I launched into the testing grounds with a JR7-F. Started a stopwatch with my left hand while firing lasers with my right. I fired lasers as frequently as possible without shutting down for approximately 30-60 seconds. I then stopped the stopwatch at the instant the heat scale fell back to its original/idle value.

I'd expect the best method would be to use video capture programs and analyzing the video for more precise measurements. =)

[Void Angel]

MuonNeutrino, on 06 June 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

On frozen city, the map as a whole is -0.5 heat. However, there is a hot spot of 0.6 heat listed at coordinates (2034.8101,2330.083,192.5352). These coordinates turn out to be the fire on the nose of the dropship, and your heat does spike if you stand on it. Note that this fire is *not* present on forest colony night.

Did you mean Frozen City Night?