220 replies to this topic

[Agent of Change]

cSand, on 06 June 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Look out man, someone gonna crucify you around here, talkin like that

Naw man, we dunk people around here cause nails and boards are OP.

[cSand]

lol


If you can be hit by it, it's OP apparently

[Mcgral18]

Nikkoru, on 06 June 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

The only strategy people have come up with to beat jumpsnipers is to have your own jumpsnipers on your team.

That is why it is unbalanced.

And, three Derps for you. You're done here. Hit the showers.

Hugging them with the WubShee is effective, assuming you can reach them.

But that's the thing, teamwork is OP. Both for poptarting, and countering poptarts.

Now, don't hurt yourself while you go about derping.

[Hellcat420]

they should make it so that ppc/gauss and jumpjets cant be used within a few seconds of eachother. iirc from lore, jumpjets tap superheated gases from the reactor to produce thrust, ppcs tap alpha particles from the reactor, and gauss needs huge amounts of energy from the reactor to fire, so lore wise it would make sense. this would get rid of poptarts while letting the metahumpers to keep their crutch.

[Silentium]

I think there will always be a meta; there is always an optimal build among imperfect balance. That in mind, what is the consensus (if any) on what the meta _should_ look like?

I get the impression that more brawling is desired, is that right? Not trying to stir the pot here, I'm just curious.

[Nikkoru]

Mcgral18, on 06 June 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Hugging them with the WubShee is effective, assuming you can reach them.

But that's the thing, teamwork is OP. Both for poptarting, and countering poptarts.

Now, don't hurt yourself while you go about derping.

The last ten games I played today were 80% jump sniping on both sides.

But, obviously there isn't a balance issue, because Mcgral18 used a rolling eyes icon on the forums.

*whew* I sure am glad you clarified that for me. Now I can go back and play another game with 80% jump snipers, content in the knowledge that there isn't a problem.

You're like that guy on the titanic telling everyone that there isn't a problem while they're knee deep in sea water. I seriously can't believe they still make people like you.

[Mcgral18]

Nikkoru, on 06 June 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

The last ten games I played today were 80% jump sniping on both sides.

But, obviously there isn't a balance issue, because Mcgral18 used a rolling eyes icon on the forums.

*whew* I sure am glad you clarified that for me. Now I can go back and play another game with 80% jump snipers, content in the knowledge that there isn't a problem.

You're like that guy on the titanic telling everyone that there isn't a problem while they're knee deep in sea water. I seriously can't believe they still make people like you.

If you've read any of my posts in any other thread, you'll see that I don't support poptarting.

I don't agree it should be abolished, but it shouldn't be so easy to do. It requires very little effort.

[Nikkoru]

Mcgral18, on 06 June 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

If you've read any of my posts in any other thread, you'll see that I don't support poptarting.

I don't agree it should be abolished, but it shouldn't be so easy to do. It requires very little effort.

I haven't read you posts on other threads, but I have read your posts on this thread, where you attack the people asking for a change to the game balance.

Now you say you actually are against poptarting, but your behavior in this thread says otherwise.

So, logically there can only be three possibilities:
1) You are lying.
2) You are trolling.
3) You are mentally ill.

So, which is it?

[Mcgral18]

Nikkoru, on 06 June 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

I haven't read you posts on other threads, but I have read your posts on this thread, where you attack the people asking for a change to the game balance.

Now you say you actually are against poptarting, but your behavior in this thread says otherwise.

So, logically there can only be three possibilities:
1) You are lying.
2) You are trolling.
3) You are mentally ill.

So, which is it?

You are the one who started the attacking. You brough that upon yourself, much like a troll.

What are your propositions fo fix the poptarting? I've given my say in plenty of threads, I've not once seen you voice your opinion, aside from:

Quote

Is nothing going to be done to fix it?

Whining doesn't fix things.

Edited by Mcgral18, 06 June 2014 - 02:12 PM.

[GumbyC2C]

cSand, on 06 June 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Look out man, someone gonna crucify you around here, talkin like that

Not too worried about some candy-ass whiners talking bad about me. I actually have suggested the easy fix for this poptart "problem" to PGI many times. All you have to do is eliminate group fire and make every weapon group chain fire only. I just fixed convergence (a worse problem for us old school Battletech nerds IMHO) and poptarts in one simple move.

[Mcgral18]

GumbyC2C, on 06 June 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

Not too worried about some candy-ass whiners talking bad about me. I actually have suggested the easy fix for this poptart "problem" to PGI many times. All you have to do is eliminate group fire and make every weapon group chain fire only. I just fixed convergence (a worse problem for us old school Battletech nerds IMHO) and poptarts in one simple move.

Hunch 4P can no longer fire all it's weapons? It's a stock mech. Unless you change chainfire as well, which would be a good move.

[Aresye]

Nightfire, on 06 June 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

Do some people not think or is it just a general lack of real world firearms experience / physics knowledge?

So let's say you're right, and recoil gets implemented. Hell, I'd love recoil to be implemented just for the sake of simulation.

How much would this impact the current meta?

Please explain how recoil would change the dynamics of meta players who fire no more than once while midair.

[Rippthrough]

You know what would have fixed the jump jet meta?
Increased heat dissipation, and less heat cap, and real 2.0 external heatsinks.

The same thing that would have fixed light mechs with small engines being worthless because they can't fit efficient heatsinks.

The same thing that would have fixed boating without the convoluted crap that was ghost heat.

The same thing that would have given more divergent builds with situational weaponry.

The same thing that would end the PPC's dominance of the battlefield without neutering it.

The thing that would allow brawlers to put the hurt on snipers when they got close, due to high, sustained DPS.

So, basically, the thing that would have fixed all the heat, brawling, viability and many other issues - including lots of issues that have occured over the past 2 years - but the idea got dismissed in closed beta as worthless with no real, explicit explanation or consulation. Just 'No, we've done this'.

Edited by Rippthrough, 06 June 2014 - 02:51 PM.

[Reno Blade]

My biggest grief with the "meta", even without the ability to poptartd, is, it's easier to play it as a twitch shooter.

I'm all for adding a delay (0.5 charge without the ability to abord) to the PPC aswell as Splash damage.
Changing PPCs to splash damage would reduce its pinpoint potency, but not the skill to hit where you want.

Only adding a delay to the PPC would also keep the ability to hit your target at a section that is damaged, but it would need a bit more skill to do so (like the gauss) and also give the target a short time to react when seeing you the first time (like comming around a corner)

Same goes for lasers already!
If you see someone coming around a corner with lasers, you can twist away. you will get 100% of the damge, if the shooter is skilled, but you have the ability (if YOU are skilled) to turn and twist to spread the incoming damage.

And same would be true if we had only 5-bullet burstfire ACs. You could turn and twist very quick, but depending on the duration of the burst, you might still take 3-4 bullets (of a 5 bullet burst) into the open section and only avoid 1-2 bullets, but that is enough to give you a CHANCE to USE your SKILL to spread the damage.

Curently the only skill you can use as the target is to keep twisted away before the impact and hope the attacker uses the Pinpoint weapons on cooldown and shoots your shield arm (if you play a shield-arm mech).

Adding the ability to use your SKILLs to spread incomming damage (as described) is improving the deapth of the gameplay.



Curently you only need to point and click after a twist and then can twist away instantly again, or go back to cover (including jump sniping).
If you are using a laser or gauss, you need to aim way longer and this needs more skill.
With skill you still could use the PPC to good effect with a delay, but the target would have this split second time to react when seing you comming around the corner, or poptarting.
This would increase time to kill, as you can spread your incomming damage to a shield arm like you can already do with incomming laser or missile fire.

The addition of splash might still be needed to balance it out with other weapons, but then we need to have all ACs to use burstfire too.
Only SRM and LBX beeing the one-shot burstfire weapons then. And pulse lasers would gain efficiency as the short duration would be closer to a burstfire (AC) or beam weapon (laser) than the instant one-click weapons (ppc/ac) now.

[vortmax]

Turn off weapon convergence while airborne.

Sure they may land all their shots on you, but they won't be on the same location.

[Agent of Change]

Rippthrough, on 06 June 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

You know what would have fixed the jump jet meta?
Increased heat dissipation, and less heat cap, and real 2.0 external heatsinks.

The same thing that would have fixed light mechs with small engines being worthless because they can't fit efficient heatsinks.

The same thing that would have fixed boating without the convoluted crap that was ghost heat.

The same thing that would have given more divergent builds with situational weaponry.

The same thing that would end the PPC's dominance of the battlefield without neutering in.

So, basically, the thing that would have fixed all the heat, brawling, viability and many other issues - including lots of issues that have occured over the past 2 years - but the idea got dismissed in closed beta as worthless with no real, explicit explanation or consulation. Just 'No, we've done this'.

Another Brilliant decision from the PGI brass.

the only thing that heat doesn't address is all the issues caused by convergence (which we could do with player setting prematch), so yeah there's two of the big ones right there. will it get done? Probably not because it makes sense.

[n r g]

Eglar, on 05 June 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

I'll partially agree on that. "Jump-Sniping" as most people regard as shooting pin-point alphas from 300-800 Meters in a JJ capable mech to be a very preferable tactic, because they can deal with any kind of situation (any map). In fact, more variety is what most of people in this game want, regardless if they are hardcore competitive players or the casual player. With ppc/ac5 being a very dominant build, I do agree that PGI should do something to increase amount of viable builds, so we get more variety.

Unfortunately, unlike statistical weapon/mechstats, you can't accurately rate the advantages of have JJs against the current map-terrain or the accuracy of the player playing a certain build and this is why many people regard accuracy along with situation awareness as a "skill" to have in MW:O. Currently PGI is, step by step taking action to softnerf jump-snipers so other builds might surface. Personally, I do find this approach very good.

That being said, regarding some statements here:


Wrong. It's part of the lore.


1 Tabletop turn equals 10 seconds in no particular order. If you move/jump and shoot, it could also mean that you do it simultaneously.

[Rippthrough]

Agent of Change, on 06 June 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Another Brilliant decision from the PGI brass.

the only thing that heat doesn't address is all the issues caused by convergence (which we could do with player setting prematch), so yeah there's two of the big ones right there. will it get done? Probably not because it makes sense.

Well, to that, I would add another one mentioned in close beta - slow the weaponry down - the actual projectile velocities are far too fast, making easy shots and very fast time-to-kill times - originally touted because it helps newbies and punished the experienced, to lower the skill gap, but, we have ELO now, so what's the excuse?
Honestly, I'd run an across-the-board halving of current weapon speeds (barring, perhaps, LRMs, but at least try it first) - make people work to land their shots on a panel. The old, slow, PPC projectile was still as good back then as now, if not better, but you only saw the guys who could aim using it.
You can go back then to longer burn time lasers without hurting their competitiveness, giving that cool DOT beam effect some substance, and making pulse lasers more relevant.

Edited by Rippthrough, 06 June 2014 - 03:33 PM.

[GumbyC2C]

Mcgral18, on 06 June 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Hunch 4P can no longer fire all it's weapons? It's a stock mech. Unless you change chainfire as well, which would be a good move.

why would it not be able to fire them all? It just would not be able to put them all on the same spot with pinpoint accuracy if you force chain fire on every weapon group.

Edited by GumbyC2C, 06 June 2014 - 03:43 PM.

[Mcgral18]

GumbyC2C, on 06 June 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

why would it not be able to fire them all? It just would not be able to put them all on the same spot with pinpoint accuracy if you force chain fire on every weapon group.

The issue with the current chainfire is that you can only chainfire 4 MLs before the first is ready to recycle. So, 4 wasted MLs and also a SL.

You'd have to change the chainfire mechanic to allow that to work, especially since the 4P is a stock mech.