210 replies to this topic

[Xeno Phalcon]

Shar Wolf, on 09 June 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Then don't go phrasing it like you are looking for a fight.

That does wonders for the way people respond to you.

But then, I guess PGI is the only one who should be getting in trouble for being lousy at communication.

While I wouldnt call my post angelic I clearly pointed out right off the bat that

Quote

I don't much care either way

in regards to if there was or was not any proof but had information showing that it was unlikely the argument could go much farther due to a general lack of possibility for such proof, but hey if it makes you feel better to lash out at others you go right on ahead.



And have a kitten.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Xeno Phalcon, on 09 June 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

While I wouldnt call my post angelic I clearly pointed out right off the bat that

You would be surprised how often I run into people trying to start an argument that way (IRL as well as the forums )



.....customer service...worst job in the world - I would rather be scrubbing toilets.


Having said that - thanks for the kitten - sorry the best I can do in return is a pokemon - but at least it isn't a Pikachu.

[Prezimonto]

Shar Wolf, on 09 June 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

MWO is at least a step in the right direction.

Then don't go phrasing it like you are looking for a fight.

That does wonders for the way people respond to you.

But then, I guess PGI is the only one who should be getting in trouble for being lousy at communication.

I have plenty of proof that they are either:
1) Extremely bad at judging deadlines to report, with many consecutive, "due in 90 days" issues that get pushed another 90 days back.

2) If they aren't essentially incompetent at meeting deadlines then the most obvious conclusion is they lied to us about deadlines.

It's actually a simple problem, either they knew they couldn't meet the deadlines given to supporters, or they thought they could and have been so woefully, inadequately, unable to meet them that two years after the first 90 days later promise we've still got another 90 days to wait.

I can't know the reason for the exceptional failures the devs had to deliver on content other than a handful of maps and new mechs, despite telling us over and over that more is coming. That doesn't mean there isn't plenty of proof that they did in fact fail to meet stated goals and deadlines repeatedly.

Add that many of the decisions they've made over the last two years have been highly unsatisfying for someone looking for mech combat in the battletech setting, with a bent towards mech comabt simulation (again as originally presented to founders), and I've had enough. I'd like to think that they're not so incompetent that they couldn't have figured out after the first 90 days were up that they weren't going to many anything close to the projected timeline. If they had been up-front then that it might be a LONG time I wouldn't be nearly as irritated. But we were strung along, offered more mechs without much else, sometimes in expensive packages, and I'm just done with all the shady marketing and communication.

I actually don't know why you're being so hostile about it, I'm letting off a gripe, about a common issue around here, and you're actually telling me to shut up and go away.

I get what you're saying about no game will ever be perfect, exactly what I want to play. That doesn't mean that THIS game hasn't gone down an entirely dissatisfying road. One that de-emphasizes many of the unique features of the setting and strongly discourages larger community groups through lack of support, and actively shutting down the ability to form groups in game and easily find matches. I have no problem with non-cannon changes to make the game feel like battletech and be fun to play as a FPS. I've suggested lots of non-cannon solutions. But that doesn't change that this game still has issues over a year later with stale game play revolving around non-cannon mech builds that heavily emphasize high front loaded damage, often paired with jump jets.

It's just not much fun anymore, outside of Stock Mech Mondays, and it could have been something much, much better.

Edited by Prezimonto, 09 June 2014 - 01:51 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Prezimonto, on 09 June 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

I have plenty of proof that they are either:

Proof that they are having problems was never the question.

Proof that they are deliberately lying to people is.

Proof that:

Prezimonto, on 09 June 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

I think this is still what's making me most angry: that I was lied to outright about projected content and delivery rate.

THAT is justified is the question.


Unless of course - you are giving permission for people to scream about you lying when you miss deadlines.

[Prezimonto]

Shar Wolf, on 09 June 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

Proof that they are having problems was never the question.

Proof that they are deliberately lying to people is.

Proof that:

THAT is justified is the question.


Unless of course - you are giving permission for people to scream about you lying when you miss deadlines.

I've already admitted that initial statement is, at best, only perhaps correct.

And, yes, I fully expect that if I over the course of a year told my boss that I can't make this deadline, it'll be 3 months more, every three months, and then at the end of that first year said, "wait, no, make than a whole year more." I fully expect that I'd be fired, or at the minimum censured or yelled at.

It would demonstrate that I, honestly, have no real idea what I'm doing, or worse that I was lying the whole time about actually working on the project.

Edited by Prezimonto, 09 June 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Prezimonto, on 09 June 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

I've already admitted that initial statement is, at best, only perhaps correct.

Yes you have.


And yet you seem to keep taking offense from it.


Hitting a little to close to home did it?


As for the problems PGI is having there are several many fixes for them.


But alas!

It is sooo much better! to just keep whining in the forum!

[DAYLEET]

Get it straight Prez, when PGI says they are going to do something and then never do(or vice versa) it it's not lying it's business as usual. and im usualy glad about that because i don't realy want to play a hardcore nerdy game.

For exemple, if they never implemented 3rd person view i would never had spent hundreads of $ on colors and camo. Now they could have given us the opportunity to shoot the little uav flying negating the use till the next match(unless you had more in module slot?) but you know...pgi.

Now if you said they mostly make terrible choices in their "timeline?" of stuff to add to the game id say "Right on brother!"

Edited by DAYLEET, 09 June 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[Prezimonto]

Shar Wolf, on 09 June 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yes you have.


And yet you seem to keep taking offense from it.


Hitting a little to close to home did it?


As for the problems PGI is having there are several many fixes for them.


But alas!

It is sooo much better! to just keep whining in the forum!

I'm not taking offense for no reason. I'm defending my feelings, which I've also admitted to having, because they're based on being jilted over and over. It's not like the bitterness stems from a single or even only a few instances of problems.

I've also tried to lend constructive feed back, time and time again. It has essentially added up to nothing. So if good responses are good for nothing, and bad responses are good for nothing... does it matter which way I land on day to basis?

If I didn't still love the setting, I wouldn't still be posting here at all. If stock mech mondays didn't exist I wouldn't be playing the game at all anymore.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Prezimonto, on 09 June 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

I'm not taking offense for no reason. I'm defending my feelings, which I've also admitted to having, because they're based on being jilted over and over. It's not like the bitterness stems from a single or even only a few instances of problems.

I apologize for offending your feelings then.

Unfortunately for you - my feelings are that despite your self proclaimed attempts at constructive feedback - you have on the whole behaved in what has been - for the most part - at best an infantile manor.


So why don't we leave it at that before the moderators get upset?

Edited by Shar Wolf, 09 June 2014 - 04:55 PM.

[Prezimonto]

Shar Wolf, on 09 June 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

I apologize for offending your feelings then.

Unfortunately for you - my feelings are that despite your self proclaimed attempts at constructive feedback - you have on the whole behaved in what has been - for the most part - at best an infantile manor.


So why don't we leave it at that before the moderators get upset?

Heh, and here I was going to point out that our feelings are equally valid, based on evidence(of different sorts and both causing us to be irritated), and at cross purposes. Also, thanks for the parting infantile jibe, that's amazing.

Cheers.

Edited by Prezimonto, 09 June 2014 - 06:16 PM.

[codynyc]

with all the money from the gold mechs they got .. hopefully it wont go to develop another game.....

[Shimmering Sword]

Prezimonto, on 09 June 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

based on evidence

You went and said it again man. You keep saying roughly "ok, I concede my point, it's just feelings", then you immediately reassert that you have evidence against them. You don't.

You listed two possible outcomes, stop trying to convince yorself that they're a company of liars and just acept the obvious and very easy to believe option of "they over estimated their abilities".
Regardless of if someone likes or dislikes this game, that's the one undeniable thing, PGI kicked this off from the deep end and couldn't pull through fast enough.
Have they been deliberately delaying the game and changing features just to spite you? No. They've encountered coding roadblocks, scaling issues, an agressively evolving competitive community, and yes, bad delivery estimates.

But what are we getting? Progress, no matter how slow. Arguably the prettiest MW game to date. A huge mech selection, a steadily increasing map pool. Balance and feature changes that better the game (even if slow to come). And eventually, community warfare, which at no point have they ever said they're dropping.

So, despite PGI having trouble with development, they on the whole have good intensions the for the game. If they really wanted to be some evil empire for the sole purpose of ruining the lives of battletech fans, they could have done it in much easier ways.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Shar Wolf, on 09 June 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

The game I want to play is so complex it will probably never get made - and I have been waiting for it since Mech2.


Destruction of parts of the mechs that have yet to even have any pressence outside of a few novels (IE a laser melting the casing ejection port on an autocannon - rendering the AC useless - without destroying it - damaging the loading mechanism - or the stabalizers - or the specific threads of myomer fibers - without actually destroying the legs ability to move)

Punching holes in specific parts of the arm or leg or torso - not just pounding him with a small laser and somehow removing armor from the entire left side of an Altas....


I have said it before - I will say it again.

If you have proof that they have deliberately and knowingly lied to you - that is called Fraud.

Fraud is a serious crime - and if you have proof of that and chose not to actually do anything about it (and no - whining on the forum does not count) then you are just as much to blame for the state of things as they are.


Just like someone witnessing a murder but not saying anything can be held responsible for the murderer remaining at large.

TLDR: if you have proof that they have lied to you - put up or shut up.

Shar Wolf, on 09 June 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Allow me to rephrase that TLDR since apparently 2 paragraphs of 1 sentence each was actually to long for you.

If you have proof that they lied to you that is a legal crime.


Do something about it or shut up.

Which means - take it up with the law........ or shut up.

this is an official news channel representitive of the componies plans of action.

http://mwomercs.com/...eveloper-update

note:



these dates may have not been set in stone but was an assurance of the developement plans to founders of the game they're purchased products would be going towards. these features regardless were as stated for the open beta phase.

it hasn't happened, pilot trees are still partially broken place holders and CW is still vaporware

now let's confirm that this news statement was in fact a lie.

http://mwomercs.com/...e-inner-sphere/



note CW is associated with plans having no developement towards it until the licence was renewed. ie: they told lies about their developement plans to ensure founders would buy in and then only when money is secured do they say "sorry it was all an act whilst we do more important things". if this isn't fraudulant then it's the worst and most mislleading of management i've ever witnessed and is a perfectly good reason for boycotting this whole project which is still pushing deadlines back and is still underdelivering whilst grabdealing on recycled content.

now i've put up exactly why pgi boast an under 50% founders retention and you can shut up.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 09 June 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Shimmering Sword, on 09 June 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

You went and said it again man. You keep saying roughly "ok, I concede my point, it's just feelings", then you immediately reassert that you have evidence against them. You don't.

You listed two possible outcomes, stop trying to convince yorself that they're a company of liars and just acept the obvious and very easy to believe option of "they over estimated their abilities".
Regardless of if someone likes or dislikes this game, that's the one undeniable thing, PGI kicked this off from the deep end and couldn't pull through fast enough.
Have they been deliberately delaying the game and changing features just to spite you? No. They've encountered coding roadblocks, scaling issues, an agressively evolving competitive community, and yes, bad delivery estimates.

But what are we getting? Progress, no matter how slow. Arguably the prettiest MW game to date. A huge mech selection, a steadily increasing map pool. Balance and feature changes that better the game (even if slow to come). And eventually, community warfare, which at no point have they ever said they're dropping.

So, despite PGI having trouble with development, they on the whole have good intensions the for the game. If they really wanted to be some evil empire for the sole purpose of ruining the lives of battletech fans, they could have done it in much easier ways.

I myself have said it hundreds of times. PGI should have had UI 2.0 in the works from the very beginning. I feel as if they always waited for the roadblocks to happen instead of anticipating them. I do love this game,it is not perfect but it is fun. I think it can only get better.

[Prezimonto]

Shimmering Sword, on 09 June 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

You went and said it again man. You keep saying roughly "ok, I concede my point, it's just feelings", then you immediately reassert that you have evidence against them. You don't.

You listed two possible outcomes, stop trying to convince yorself that they're a company of liars and just acept the obvious and very easy to believe option of "they over estimated their abilities".
Regardless of if someone likes or dislikes this game, that's the one undeniable thing, PGI kicked this off from the deep end and couldn't pull through fast enough.
Have they been deliberately delaying the game and changing features just to spite you? No. They've encountered coding roadblocks, scaling issues, an agressively evolving competitive community, and yes, bad delivery estimates.

But what are we getting? Progress, no matter how slow. Arguably the prettiest MW game to date. A huge mech selection, a steadily increasing map pool. Balance and feature changes that better the game (even if slow to come). And eventually, community warfare, which at no point have they ever said they're dropping.

So, despite PGI having trouble with development, they on the whole have good intensions the for the game. If they really wanted to be some evil empire for the sole purpose of ruining the lives of battletech fans, they could have done it in much easier ways.

What, you need me to dig up the repeated times they said, "another 90 days" before CW? or UI 2.0 which was the block to CW? Stop being a lazy forum goer and look it up yourself. Just because you draw the prettiest, awesomest mechs, doesn't mean you get to call me wrong for calling events that happened, evidence.

My feelings of irritation stem from:
A lack of CW after 2 years (yes, I realize I need to wait longer).

A UI that's more clunky than before (yes, I know fixes are on the way).

Stale gameplay, which hasn't significantly changed in a year (I see no reason this will change anytime soon, unless clan mechs significantly change the way the game is played).

Lack of support for groups between 5 and 11 players. (possible fixes in the distant future, caused most of my personal group to abandon ship a long time ago, as we couldn't all play together)

There's more, but at the end of the day I agree, the devs have good intentions for the game. They care, or at least many of them do, and that's obvious, but for much of this it's going to be too little and/or too late.

I also don't think, IF they were lying about deadlines that it had anything to do with pissing off battletech fans, I think it has everything to do with making money. And that's where we get to a number of decisions that necessary or not also have the tang of being shady:
The announcement that PGI secured the license to the game for additional years, AND THEN started work for real on CW and UI 2.0 after "launch".
The handling of gold mechs being "limited" in number with no actual number of mechs or way to verify how many actually exist, it's certainly possible, but usually you get a number like 048/100 so you know you're buying something special and not a random marketing scheme to increase hype.
The same goes for the bonus prizes on the phoenix and clan packs... those numbers don't move, nothing tells us how many people need to sign up/pay out to get to the next level, it again looks like a pure marketing ploy to generate enthusiasm using the tools of kickstarted material without the accountability. Am I glad people will get their extra bits, that that might not have gotten at all? Yes. Is it ethically dubious? I sure looks that way to me.

In short, I'm worn out. I wouldn't be upset if I didn't genuinely like the game, at least at one point. Or if I wasn't invested fairly heavily into the game. But the only solution is "wait", and part of the problem is the cycle of hope and disappointment I've ridden with the game, while waiting, for years now. Hope that all will better with the next patch, fix, solution, addition, mech, map, and more often not disappointment that it's not actually getting better in a significant fashion. Small, incremental changes have happened, but even those are a mixed bag, dealing with one problem and causing more.

Edited by Prezimonto, 09 June 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

GalaxyBluestar, on 09 June 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

now i've put up exactly why pgi boast an under 50% founders retention and you can shut up.

And I have shown you how you can - or rather should - be dealing with that.

Shar Wolf, on 09 June 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

I have said it before - I will say it again.

If you have proof that they have deliberately and knowingly lied to you - that is called Fraud.

Fraud is a serious crime - and if you have proof of that and chose not to actually do anything about it (and no - whining on the forum does not count) then you are just as much to blame for the state of things as they are.


Just like someone witnessing a murder but not saying anything can be held responsible for the murderer remaining at large.

But then - it is sooo much more appropriate and helpful (not to mention soooo intelligent) to whine in the forums rather than actually do something about it.

Prezimonto, on 09 June 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Also, thanks for the parting infantile jibe, that's amazing.

Cheers.

Thanks for being willing to admit you are.

Cheers.

[Kyle Lewis]

Butane9000, on 06 June 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I feel this translates into:

"Hey everyone! We didn't make as much money as we thought! Though it's our fault for not breaking down in detail final systems and tying the Clans into Community Warfare we still want your money! So while you won't get some of the special items you'll get a good chunk of them! So come on down and give us your money for a third time while we wait months and years to give you what you are expecting!"

based on you expertise at Esperanto? Who are you to translate anything? Are you an insider in the company, willing to break ranks and expose the company from within?

[Kyle Lewis]

Belorion, on 06 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I have stated on here before, there is no way I will buy the package without knowing when I will and won't be able to use the mechs. If they give me that information (couldn't take long to post that) then I will consider buying a package.

Otherwise, why buy something I can't use?

they stated all that all clan mechs will all be released June 17th for those that preordered. they also spelled out exactly the release dates of the mechs for mc and cbills.

[Kyle Lewis]

Darth Bane001, on 06 June 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

Um yes I am entitled to my hard earned money and whether I feel this content is worth spending it on. I asked for a refund after them failing to make 3x4 work, and well when was the last time they released a patch that wasn't broken? So yeah my faith in them is low at this point but still holding on somewhat. I find it sad that you actually follow me to the point of making a point to quote me on something. If I choose to uninstall the game to make a statement and come back when I feel they done something right to make it worth my time to play then thats my right. You cant decide that for me.

Actually that still falls into the realm of your personal opinion, you decided to drop out because of the faults you feel are deal breakers, and that is fine, its your time and money on the line.

However as with most other peoples opinions no one else is interested in seeing the same boring "im quiting" "NOMD" posts after every piece of information that PGI releases.

Do it, quit already, log off the forums and bask in your ability to get out from the screwing you feel that PGI is doing to everyone. Stop wasting your valuable time and the expense of sending your electronic posts, I mean what you will save 2 to 3 cents for each time you don't traffic the mwo site, or log on to the game servers. PLUS it would mean one less atlas driver during the matches for the rest of us.

[Kyle Lewis]

GalaxyBluestar, on 09 June 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

this is an official news channel representitive of the componies plans of action.

http://mwomercs.com/...eveloper-update

note:



these dates may have not been set in stone but was an assurance of the developement plans to founders of the game they're purchased products would be going towards. these features regardless were as stated for the open beta phase.

it hasn't happened, pilot trees are still partially broken place holders and CW is still vaporware

now let's confirm that this news statement was in fact a lie.

http://mwomercs.com/...e-inner-sphere/



note CW is associated with plans having no developement towards it until the licence was renewed. ie: they told lies about their developement plans to ensure founders would buy in and then only when money is secured do they say "sorry it was all an act whilst we do more important things". if this isn't fraudulant then it's the worst and most mislleading of management i've ever witnessed and is a perfectly good reason for boycotting this whole project which is still pushing deadlines back and is still underdelivering whilst grabdealing on recycled content.

now i've put up exactly why pgi boast an under 50% founders retention and you can shut up.

wow, I thought the religious right was the only source of out of context reasons for things. The first quote you used is far out of date, and was already commented on by PGI. its called unexpected delays, they started communicating the issues and process after people just had to KNOW why stuff wasn't done when the ESTIMATED them too, so now we get reasons and explanations and now that is not enough, still people waste their precious time posting about how evil the company is, how they are only trying to steal our money and leave us with nothing.

Except these same people still here, they still bother to log on the website, they still log into the game, they still participate, yet its PGI who is wasting their time. How about this, save your time, save your money, log off the forums, uninstall the game, send in your refund request.

Just go find something else to enjoy, I mean at least until your unrealistic expectations for how real life can work. I mean you do know what Murphy's Law means right? and then you can spend your precious time complain about that next failed expectation.

How the game is not going to be around in two years.
PGI is not a fly by night company, its not one of those fake apps that cost you 9.99 per month until you final see your bill is too large. they have not flown to south America, never to be heard from again, they are producing new things every month, it may not always be what everyone is wanting at that moment, but they are still working for us their customer base, even if you won't open your eyes to realize it. Blizzard took 10 years to develop WOW. PGI has only been working on this game for little over2 years. I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt. we are not ALL game developers, we are not all engineers, and we are not all immune to unexpected issues arising from the development of the game so far.

UI1.5 became a liability for further development, so they fixed it, so it doesn't look as pretty as smurphies, ill give you that, but it wasn't the external appearance that was the reason i was excited, it was the fact that it helped remove roadblocks to other functions. ( The had the gut to come forward and said, look we chose the wrong way of approaching the game, and it started to bite us in the ass, so we went back and found a better way) when was the last time a corporation came forward and said, yeah we do bad things for bad reasons and we are going to actually fix it in your children's lifetime.

CW Everyone is looking forward to this aspect of the game, and frankly i wouldn't want to see CW before they have full collision back in the game, anything to stop 35 ton firestarters willing to charge right at an atlas and win. I want to see seamless game play, before i start worrying about the clan mech arrival.

CLANS so I know that a great portion of those awaiting the arrival of the clans, is about having the advantage and being unstoppable, they don't care about the lore, I mean just look at how many of the people that are complaining already that the clans are going to be nerfed, I think the idea that the TT rule are not translating well to the game, means that they need to have adjustments to the clan tech, and anyone going clan for "story" should be ok with that. to most CLANS might as well be spelled META, they want that extra level of advantage, nothing less.

Edited by Kyle Lewis, 10 June 2014 - 12:09 AM.