208 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

StillRadioactive, on 06 June 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

Do you really think that an AC/10 hit's worth of damage per LEG per FALL is insignificant for a Dragon Slayer? Because let's face it, the DS is the poptart king.

huh? You've got, what, 80iah armor per leg, if each leg is taking 10 damage with each pop, your legs have no armour after just 8 pops. Now, you're not going to take max damage, but even at half? 16 pops isn't a whole lot.

Not to say this will end poptarting, but number-dependant it'll severely curtail long drawn out popfests. If nothing else, poptarts will be very vulnerable to death by legging late match.

[Krinkov]

NST, on 06 June 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

According to this we should prepare to see people dying from jumping onto ledges...

This totally nerfs 1 or 2 JJ as a mobility assist.

e.g. Jumping onto a ledge in canyon: time-to-jump is usually > 1s, vertical landing velocity is low, and still take 4 dmg / leg (heavy).

Either increase the time threshhold before applying, or adjust the 30-60 ft/s scaling function and include 0-10 ft/s = 0 multiplier.

It sounds like less than 30ft/s will cause no damage.

[Wintersdark]

Krinkov, on 06 June 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

It sounds like less than 30ft/s will cause no damage.

This is how I read it too, then scaling from min to max 30-60ft/s. Thus, no damage from 0<30, scaled from min to max from 30 through 60, and just max damage beyond 60.

Edited by Wintersdark, 06 June 2014 - 05:26 PM.

[Tezcatli]

I hope it bugs out and people start breaking legs left and right.

Either way. It's nice if it works to give poptarts a little more consequence.

Edited by Tezcatli, 06 June 2014 - 05:28 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Wintersdark, on 06 June 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

This is how I read it too, then scaling from min to max 30-60ft/s. Thus, no damage from 0<30, scaled from min to max from 30 through 60, and just max damage beyond 60.

Hopefully we can get some clarification. I think the biggest concern pilots have are wether or not 'viable' JJ'ing e.g. up on to ledges/off ledges in the heat of battle will be bugged. Last thing we want is lights jumping up on to ledges for their legs to explode or something.

Also really hope this gets put through public testing as it is a MAJOR change & will cause a lot of ire if not implemented properly...

Either way, looks like no more screwing around doing pirouettes off cliffs in my firestarter...

Edited by White Bear 84, 06 June 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Vandruis]

So my 'mechs that are designed to fly 150 meters are now going to take 10-15% leg damage on falling? lol

[Not Bob]

Wintersdark, on 06 June 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

This is how I read it too, then scaling from min to max 30-60ft/s. Thus, no damage from 0<30, scaled from min to max from 30 through 60, and just max damage beyond 60.

Sorry, nope :\

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 06 June 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

[color=#00FFFF]In greater detail:[/color]
[color=#00FFFF]If a Mech is in the air longer than [1] second, the system would calculate the armor brought into the game together with the leg health. To determine damage, a certain percentage is taken from that calculation, i.e. Light Mechs = [1] %, Medium Mechs = [2] %, Heavy Mechs = [3] %, and Assault Mechs = [4] %.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]Depending on what the current fall speed is (on a range between [30] ft/s and [60] ft/s) this base damage is multiplied by another variable (ranging from [1] to [1.4]).[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]The outcome is a dynamic range of fall damage depending on speed and weight class of a Mech.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]Here is an example using the numbers above of what this could look like:[/color]
[color=#00FFFF]· [/color]Light: minDmg = [0.67] / maxDmg = [0.938]
[color=#00FFFF]· [/color]Medium: minDmg =[2.14] / maxDmg = [2.996]
[color=#00FFFF]· [/color]Heavy: minDmg = [3.75] / maxDmg = [5.25]
[color=#00FFFF]· [/color]Assault: minDmg [7.28] / maxDmg = [10.192]

If they are in the air at all for 1 second or greater, they will take damage. Whenever a light is in the air for more than one second at the least, they will take .67 damage to their legs. Now, I don't know if you play lights alot, but I do, and I'm always in the air. Whether it is dodging, running off a steep cliff to JJ safely on the ground, fly over a guys head to turn him around, or any other various reason - You're taking that .67 damage. Now, a Jenner only has 48 total HP in the leg (32 armor, 16 internal), so yes, you can sometimes jump a bit, but people will aim for your legs. This is making the light harassers much much harder.

I think instead of a static one second (I wouldn't know a good formula) but Negative Fall Distance / Speed. If the fall speed is greater than a threshold (Say 30Ft/s) /then no damage is taken, and damage is only taken on fall. This will help with people clearing obstacles, or scaling something. As you'll be going vertical (Positive Distance) you wouldn't incur the one second penalty (Which I'm removed). And then the landing is usually pretty soft, as you won't be shooting yourself 80m in the air to clear a 15m hurdle.

Edited by Not Bob, 06 June 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[L e x]

ETA?

[ManDaisy]

I say there should be no limit on max damage. Numbers need to be tweaked higher as well. A 0 multiplier needs to be applied to soft landings.

Scaling should be based on actual weight of the mech (tonnage), not the class of the mech (light, med, heavy assault)

Edited by ManDaisy, 06 June 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

For poptarting to be viable, people are going to need to load on full jets. Both for height, and fuel usage.

As for lights, shorter hops or cushioning should work just fine. I'm excited because it's more in line with how MW2 Mercs was where JJs actually took some forethought and skill to use without wrecking your mech, or overheating it.

Consequently, I already flare to cushion so the changes won't affect me at all.


Lastly, it means IS mechs are going to have to drop down an engine rating or two to not only mount more jets, but more sinks to compensate. Suddenly locked XLs on Clan mechs don't look so bad.

Edited by ShadowWolf Kell, 06 June 2014 - 05:44 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

p8ragon, on 06 June 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

this + jump jet heat +srm fix = Pop tarting pest control

fixed it for you

[BlackDrakon]

1st week of implemantation, lot of mechs legged, rofl.

[Deathlike]

StillRadioactive, on 06 June 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

Do you really think that an AC/10 hit's worth of damage per LEG per FALL is insignificant for a Dragon Slayer? Because let's face it, the DS is the poptart king.

That depends... if I cushion the fall with 4 JJs instead of 2, should I not take less damage?

I'm mostly talking about mechs that get legged often (not necessarily lights, although they are very much affected by this). Mechs like the Quickdraw already suffer from being legged (this was always true since the day it was released). I don't have a problem if people skimp on their leg armor (it is their own decision), but JJ-capable mechs that naturally get their legged chopped off are most affected by this.

If anything, it makes taking multiple JJs in a light a lot more risky.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 June 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[Jody Von Jedi]

My poor Quickdraws are going to have to loose some weight.

[JagerXII]

I would prefer to see all mechs take the same % damage when they fall instead of a number based on weight. The numbers they put up are not final and hopefully just extreme examples to illustrate what they are thinking.

Jump fighting (not static jump camp/sniping though that is still skill intensive) is the most exciting and fun MWO combat can be; not only for a player but for spectators as well. Lets not nerf it too badly. Hill humping Stalkers, etc is the most boring the game can possibly be.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

At a minimum, this will add another skill mechanic to jump sniping, which is good, but it might not change the top-tier "meta".

I'm anxious to see this in game.

Great work with the communication ... keep it up. One bit of advice, though ... one of these little notes every other day would generate more consistent buzz than dropping five (or more ... are there more coming?) on us at once.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Sounds good.

A question though.

Will the various gravity levels on the differing maps be taken into account ?

I am thinking that small, low gravity worlds would bring damage down for all mechs, and large high gravity worlds will cause more damage.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Dirk Le Daring, on 06 June 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Sounds good.

A question though.

Will the various gravity levels on the differing maps be taken into account ?

I am thinking that small, low gravity worlds would bring damage down for all mechs, and large high gravity worlds will cause more damage.

As well as increasing/decreasing lift. Another MW2 Mercs mechanic that's been sorely lacking in MWO. It was one of the further ways the game maps were diversified and diversity is always a good thing.

Edited by ShadowWolf Kell, 06 June 2014 - 06:20 PM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 06 June 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

As well as increasing/decreasing lift.

Good idea

[Cimarb]

Jin Ma, on 06 June 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

From what i understand,

So as long as i've been in the air for >1s. regardless of if i thrust to pad the fall, i will still take a great amount of leg damage?

We definitely need to know this, as it makes a LOT of difference. I would assume feathering the fall will lessen the damage, just like it currently does, but verification would be great.