111 replies to this topic

[ManusDei]

It's pretty consistent and reproducible each match now. Every match I'm highest damage on my team and I'm finding it more difficult to get kills while losing almost all my solo queue drops. Matchmaker is definitely placing 1 or 2 players with a high K/D in each match and grouping them with 10-11 players with very low K/D on purpose. But then again my damage is 600 to 1000 now each match. K/D is climbing while Win/Loss is taking a nosedive. Same reproducible results every day, every match.

[Papaspud]

ManusDei, on 26 July 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

It's pretty consistent and reproducible each match now. Every match I'm highest damage on my team and I'm finding it more difficult to get kills while losing almost all my solo queue drops. Matchmaker is definitely placing 1 or 2 players with a high K/D in each match and grouping them with 10-11 players with very low K/D on purpose. But then again my damage is 600 to 1000 now each match. K/D is climbing while Win/Loss is taking a nosedive. Same reproducible results every day, every match.

Me too- same thing, had 3 games with over 1000 damage a couple of days ago, only won 1. Hard to buy a win no matter what you do. KDR has risen quite a bit too, w/l..... not so good. Not every game, but way more often than it seems it should be, I can't believe I am in the same ELO bracket as some of the people I watch play....... really?

[ManusDei]

Today I can't win for nothing. 16 matches in a row all lost with less than 200 damage each round and I'm still highest damage on team. Something is up with matchmaker but until the dev's acknowledge this fact...it can't be fixed.

I'm even losing every match playing in a 2 man group same experience high damage lost match. The last patch the did something or adjusted their algorithm for matchmaker. The first release of the new matchmaker was the best version now its back to where it was before the re-write. Guess the devs couldn't leave well enough alone. If it aint broke don't adjust it PGI cause I believe you just broke it again.

Edited by ManusDei, 27 July 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[Tevesh]

I'm finding that matchmaking is putting together unbalanced matches more often than not. I'd say that 50% of my matches are blowouts either way. 10% are close matches and the other 40% are matches that could have gone either way but one team got an advantage early and the score was tilted in their favour. I think the biggest culprit is the group size. Groups of 8-10 skilled players can dominate a match even against 3 groups of 4 skilled players. I think group size should be limited to 6. If you have more friends than that you can split into a group of 4 and a group of 3 just fine.

[Cimarb]

Tevesh, on 27 July 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I'm finding that matchmaking is putting together unbalanced matches more often than not. I'd say that 50% of my matches are blowouts either way. 10% are close matches and the other 40% are matches that could have gone either way but one team got an advantage early and the score was tilted in their favour. I think the biggest culprit is the group size. Groups of 8-10 skilled players can dominate a match even against 3 groups of 4 skilled players. I think group size should be limited to 6. If you have more friends than that you can split into a group of 4 and a group of 3 just fine.

No. We fought for a long time to get larger groups. How about we try not to take steps backwards?...

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Tevesh, on 27 July 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

... I think the biggest culprit is the group size. ...

I disagree ... I find it very interesting that in the solo queue, you can most often determine your chances of winning early in a match by how well the players group up and provide close support to each other.

In the group queue, you can make the same determination, except when one group doesn't link up with the others, the impact is much, much greater. Some groups will break off and do their own thing because they think they know better (and they might be right, but the best map positioning won't win most 12v8s) ... others just don't realize the bad choices they're making. In either case, the group leads aren't adapting to the situation fast enough and aren't communicating with each other (or are ignoring each other).

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 27 July 2014 - 07:45 PM.

[Tevesh]

Larger group sizes would be fine if the matchmaker would match 10 person groups against other 10 person groups of close to the same skill. But when you have a 10 person group going up against 3 4-player groups the 10 player group has a serious advantage. Plus with the large group sizes matchmaking seems to be throwing elo out the window just to find matches. It's not much fun losing 8-10 matches in a row 12-2 for no reason other than the matchmaker failing to make a fair match. I think reducing group sizes somewhat would alleviate that. Or make it so that of you're in a group of 8 or more you only get paired against another group of similar size (within 1). Nothing is going to drive players away faster than having the matchmaker screw you over repeatedly.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Any time I see someone type in chat "gg close matchmaker" or "stoopid noob team" or any other excuse for their loss, I can't help but think (and sometimes reply), "it's always someone else's fault".

Sometimes, the players who gripe about getting rolled are some of the higher scoring (in kills and/or damage), but they obviously weren't applying that damage in the right places at the right time, or they wouldn't have lost.

There are, and always will be factors beyond your personal control that will affect the outcome of a match. While I get as frustrated as anyone about these factors, I prefer to think back on the things I could have done better, and learn from them, rather than blame someone else for my loss.

Blaming others, or factors beyond my control, for my failure does not help me become a better player.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 27 July 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[Daishi8]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 27 July 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

Any time I see someone type in chat "gg close matchmaker" or "stoopid noob team" or any other excuse for their loss, I can't help but think (and sometimes reply), "it's always someone else's fault".

Sometimes, the players who gripe about getting rolled are some of the higher scoring (in kills and/or damage), but they obviously weren't applying that damage in the right places at the right time, or they wouldn't have lost.

There are, and always will be factors beyond your personal control that will affect the outcome of a match. While I get as frustrated as anyone about these factors, I prefer to think back on the things I could have done better, and learn from them, rather than blame someone else for my loss.

Blaming others, or factors beyond my control, for my failure does not help me become a better player.

Explain then, why 2 weeks ago 90% of matches ended 10 - 12, after that matches end 2 - 12 at best 3 - 12. Yes i made a lot of kills with my new mechs 2 weeks ago, so now i have to suffer with losing every match? Not even fun to start playing when you know how it will end after 2min of start.

[Cimarb]

Daishi8, on 28 July 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Explain then, why 2 weeks ago 90% of matches ended 10 - 12, after that matches end 2 - 12 at best 3 - 12. Yes i made a lot of kills with my new mechs 2 weeks ago, so now i have to suffer with losing every match? Not even fun to start playing when you know how it will end after 2min of start.

Explanation: perception.

You FEEL that was the case, but it likely was/is not. Start taking stats of your matches, or just screenshot the After-Battle Report screen, for a week or two, then look back at them - it is quite an eye opener, whether it supports your claims or (likely) not.

[Willard Phule]

*shrug*

I've been seeing the same thing myself, not that it matters. There was a post out there somewhere that had Russ explaining that the "new" matchmaker is supposed to put a couple of higher Elo players on each team and then fill it with new players that need to be carried.

I guess it's working as intended. Frustrating as hell, but it's all good. I just make sure to let the new players know that shooting their own teammates heals their damage and the red smoke gives them temporary "godmode." Normally good for flushing out a few morons.

[Tevesh]

I just think that they either need to reduce group size again or make the matchmaker very strict on matching group sizes over a certain point. Then if you are in a 10 person group and fail to find a match a few times you know you need to split into 2 5 player groups.

[ManusDei]

If its working as intended then I would have to say its working to frustrate the hell out of good players being dropped into a match with 10 noobs. The only purpose it serves PGI to drop one or two high ELO players into a match with 10 other low ELO players is an attempt to lower the high elo players k/d. What ever happen to the goal of a balanced match? Match with similar pilots with the same ELO ? Is PGi saying they can't do it?

[Roland]

I think the issue is that there simply aren't enough players who know how to play the game at a competent level, Manus. At any given time in the solo queue, there just aren't enough higher tower players to create a full match.

The best you can do is try to tell the new players some basic things, and try to nudge them away from doing what their instincts tell them to do. And hope they listen.

Edited by Roland, 28 July 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[ManusDei]

I can understand that rational Roland if that Is PGI's intention. How long does PGI think they can abuse top ELO players and expect them to carry 10 noobs every match? Really how long before it frustrates them to the point of thinking...its not worth it anymore. Is this the best you can do PGI? Alienate high ELO players who will never experience a competent match with their peers, then expect them to carry noobs forever?

I don' think PGI is thinking of all the angles here with this issue. I can imagine the response from PGI " to our surprise we can't find enough high ELO players to fill a single solo queue match...so we sprinkle them across the board in he hope they would not mind carrying noobs every match".

[Kyrie]

Exposing new players to a few higher ELO players in a match seems like a good idea... for the new players. For the high ELO players, it forces them into a position to either try to lead the herd, or suffer the fate of random failure.

If you know yourself to be a highly skilled player, trapped amongst a team of new players....

[Cimarb]

Kyrie, on 29 July 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Exposing new players to a few higher ELO players in a match seems like a good idea... for the new players. For the high ELO players, it forces them into a position to either try to lead the herd, or suffer the fate of random failure.

If you know yourself to be a highly skilled player, trapped amongst a team of new players....

The main problem is we do not know our Elo, and therefore have no clue whether we are "good" or not according to the matchmaker.

Elo has nothing to do with individual skill, since it is determined by a team-based system, so it really does not matter how good you are individually. No matter how skilled you are, your Elo could be the exact same as a brand new player with lots of luck and zero skill.

[Kyrie]

Cimarb, on 29 July 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

The main problem is we do not know our Elo, and therefore have no clue whether we are "good" or not according to the matchmaker.

Elo has nothing to do with individual skill, since it is determined by a team-based system, so it really does not matter how good you are individually. No matter how skilled you are, your Elo could be the exact same as a brand new player with lots of luck and zero skill.

Not exactly. Some people are maintaining a high rate of Wins over Losses, despite the fact that it is a team-based ELO system. While we cannot know our actual ELO score, we can judge the trend of our changes to the ELO score based on W/L over time. If your W/L rate is improving, it follows that your ELO is improving. If your W/L rate is declining, your ELO score will also decline.

The point I was trying to hint at is that if you are a highly skilled player, and you seem to be trapped with a bunch of newbs -- your only choice in that match is to either rely on random chance and pray for a win, or try to actually lead the new players. I suspect the highly skilled players are praying rather than trying to lead. :-)

[Tevesh]

Kyrie, on 29 July 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Exposing new players to a few higher ELO players in a match seems like a good idea... for the new players. For the high ELO players, it forces them into a position to either try to lead the herd, or suffer the fate of random failure.

If you know yourself to be a highly skilled player, trapped amongst a team of new players....

I'm disagree with it being a good idea to put new players with high ELO players. How long will a new player stick around if they get instantly cored every time they make a slight mistake? If they're playing against other players of similar skill then their mistakes, while still causing them damage, will not cause them to be completely eliminated. I think there should be limits on the ELO range in a match. Very high ELO players should not be in matches with complete newbies. I know this will impact matchmaking for the small percentage of players that are in the very high ELO range but I think overall it would be better for the game.

[Kyrie]

Tevesh, on 29 July 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I'm disagree with it being a good idea to put new players with high ELO players. How long will a new player stick around if they get instantly cored every time they make a slight mistake? If they're playing against other players of similar skill then their mistakes, while still causing them damage, will not cause them to be completely eliminated. I think there should be limits on the ELO range in a match. Very high ELO players should not be in matches with complete newbies. I know this will impact matchmaking for the small percentage of players that are in the very high ELO range but I think overall it would be better for the game.

I disagree. A veteran player cannot, usually, instantly core anyone unless the tonnage disparity is silly, or he is using a troll build like the Direstar. Instant-cores tend to happen more when you expose yourself to multiple enemies at the same time, and you get focus fired because of your bad position instead of opposing skills.

The advantage to new players lies in being able to, occasionally, be teamed up with a helpful veteran that helps lead the noobs, and also being able to spectate veteran players in action.

Exposure of new players to small doses of great skill is a good thing.