168 replies to this topic

[BlackDrakon]

Damage is fine at 2.5 stop saying dumb things! The splash damage is fix, so its ok with 2.5 per missile!

[Mcgral18]

BlackDrakon, on 07 June 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

Damage is fine at 2.5 stop saying dumb things! The splash damage is fix, so its ok with 2.5 per missile!

Better at 2.5, but proper at 3.0.

Splash was causing it to do over 15 damage PER missile on smaller mechs. We won't ever see that type of carnage again.

[John80sk]

I'm curious, is this purely a fix for a problem with SRM's, or will it improve hit registration in general? Been noticing lasers in particular have been have been dodgy even on stationary mechs.

[BlackDrakon]

Fix the trajectory! dont miss that plz!

[26e2]

Fantasic guys! I'm exited

[ZachMan119]

BlackDrakon, on 06 June 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

BOUT FREAKING TIME!

I know, right?

BlackDrakon, on 07 June 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

Fix the trajectory! dont miss that plz!

Totally!

[Scratx]

BlackBeltJones, on 06 June 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

This is the exact opposite of walking in on your wife sleeping with Jar-Jar Binks.

So it's your wife walking in on you sleeping with Jar-Jar Binks?


(hides from the reader's wrath while grabbing the mindbleach)

[Gattsus]

*******, you're going to make me cry,

[focuspark]

BlackDrakon, on 07 June 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

Damage is fine at 2.5 stop saying dumb things! The splash damage is fix, so its ok with 2.5 per missile!

Did I miss something where SRM damage was boosted to 2.5 / missile? Last I checked it was only 2.15 / missile.

[PhoenixFire55]

I just hope that SRM damage goes back to proper non-increased values now that hit detection will work ...
I'm not really holding my breath tho, we've heard that SRMs are fixed a few times already.

[ShinVector]

PhoenixFire55, on 08 June 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

I just hope that SRM damage goes back to proper non-increased values now that hit detection will work ...
I'm not really holding my breath tho, we've heard that SRMs are fixed a few times already.

Do you go to testing grounds to see how..'NOT OP' SRMs are even in at 2.15 Damage ?
Testing grounds is the perfect environment to test for how SRMs should work... Existing spread rules seems to work Very if not too well in spreading damage even at super close range.

Considering all the long range pin point weapons that exist now. What is your concern ?

[PhoenixFire55]

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

Do you go to testing grounds to see how..'NOT OP' SRMs are even in at 2.15 Damage ?
Testing grounds is the perfect environment to test for how SRMs should work... Existing spread rules seems to work Very if not too well in spreading damage even at super close range.

Considering all the long range pin point weapons that exist now. What is your concern ?

My concern is their way of 'fixing' things. Along the lines ... 'we can't fix hit detection so we just buff the damage'. Because if somebody is lucky to have a near perfect hit reg on SRMs he essentially gets a far better weapon then he is supposed to, while guy who has fail hit reg all the time isn't getting any real improvement out of buffed damage.

Personally I don't trust testing grounds beyond setting weapon groups. I do enough 'live' testing to know that SRMs are already wrecking things to shreads ... as long as they register. However, spread patterns are broken. When a mech (doesn't matter which one) that packs 3-4 SRM6s can blow a leg off from a 100% fresh light in one shot without even scratching the armor anywhere else ... I can't really call that balance (that goes same way for AC-PPC-Gauss etc.). Needless to say, SRMs that are supposed to be 'splatter all over the enemy' weapon can do 'into-one-component' damage on bigger mechs same way. It depends greatly on a mech, while IMO it should depend on the range you can set manually in mechlab, at which your SRMs will hit in the tightest possible group, while at ranges shorter and longer they'll spread out exponentially (again, same goes for torso mounted pinpoint damage weapons and their convergence distance).

That said, I do believe that SRMs will actually become 'OP' at ~200m and closer ranges, same way 'meta' is 'OP' outside of those same ranges. With proper hit reg it'll be same high-alpha pinpoint poptarts with SRMs, just within 270m. Because 6 PPCs weight 42 tons, do 60 dmg and generate 167 heat, while 6 SMR6s weight 18 tons, do 72 dmg and generate 29 heat. Feel the difference? You really think ghost heat killed splatcats? Nope, its fail hit reg. Fix hit reg and they'll come back, you substitute one meta with another meta, while keeping some weapons practically useless for years now (hello pulse lasers).

Close range brawler mechs are already crushing any meta when they are within range (as they should), meta is only OP in PUGs where nobody has the guts to load up on 270m weapons and go fight instead of hillhumping, taking pop shots or spamming LRMs and arty-strikes from perfectly safe posistions. I've been doing enough 12s on highly competitive level lately to know that for certain, having experience with both brawler vs meta and meta vs brawler setups.

So ... to answer your question about my concerns. My concerns are same they were about a year ago... the inability or unwillingness of the devs to fix the core issue behind all weapon balancing problems ... that core issue being the ability to put all my damage into single component of a mech I'm shooting at without much skill involved. That is true for all ballistics, that is true for all energy weapons, that is true for SRMs, that is in most cases true for LRMs (because why can't you use streak aim mechanics for LRMs in packs of 5 is beyond me). SSRMs IMHO is the ONLY balanced weapon in the game in terms of damage and locations they hit. They need some rework on lock mechanics so that it is harder to acquire and hold locks, but otherwise they are fine.

I guess it'll be cool to have a few months of SRM meta instead of AC-PPC meta, but it doesn't really help with game balance.

[PhoenixFire55]

ManDaisy, on 06 June 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

Honestly, without self splash damage (less then 90m), its going to get a little out of hand with the face hugging. Expect big numbers and lots of complaints from those who can't adjust..

I think damage should be kept at 2.0 as in battletech lore, but damage to self needs to be added under 90m. An Srm will true be an SRM then.

No. 60m to make things interesting vs the PPC builds. So you can both invalidate their weapon and max out the efficiency of yours.

[PhoenixFire55]

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

What is your concern ?

One other thing. The entire "blancing" is happening within the very restricted environment. The general rule for everyone in PUGs is "let others go first". That leads to cowardly tactics of hiding behind bushes and such, and apparently in such trench wars long range weapons dominate, thus the AC-PPC-LRM meta, thus the whine about it. Strikes that were supposed to break the trench war didn't, because in same PUG enviro I'd rather take some damage with a slim chance of dieing standing in a strike, then be the guy to hop out of cover to avoid the strike and get focused to death by 6 pinpoint alpha snipers and 4 heavy LRM boats.

Now, change the enviro. Remove the factor of PUGs, build equally skilled teams that know how to use any weapon properly. A completely flat and open map of 1500x1500m. LRMs will dominate. A completely flat and open map of 500x500m. Brawlers will dominate. And so on. But can we do the balancing based on any of these select few examples? I don't think so.

[ShinVector]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2014 - 03:13 AM, said:

One other thing. The entire "blancing" is happening within the very restricted environment. The general rule for everyone in PUGs is "let others go first". That leads to cowardly tactics of hiding behind bushes and such, and apparently in such trench wars long range weapons dominate, thus the AC-PPC-LRM meta, thus the whine about it. Strikes that were supposed to break the trench war didn't, because in same PUG enviro I'd rather take some damage with a slim chance of dieing standing in a strike, then be the guy to hop out of cover to avoid the strike and get focused to death by 6 pinpoint alpha snipers and 4 heavy LRM boats.

Now, change the enviro. Remove the factor of PUGs, build equally skilled teams that know how to use any weapon properly. A completely flat and open map of 1500x1500m. LRMs will dominate. A completely flat and open map of 500x500m. Brawlers will dominate. And so on. But can we do the balancing based on any of these select few examples? I don't think so.

But it will give people the option to use their missiles point for SRMs instead of LRMS and streaks..
I am all for the return of close range combat instead of the LRM and poptart nonesense...

Also about face hugging doesn't work well with SRMS.. At 0M and problably a little more.. You take splash damage from your own SRMs.

This is old but still happens more or less.. SRMs huge spread even at stone throwing range...
1v1.. AC40 is king of close range combat still.

[PhoenixFire55]

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

But it will give people the option to use their missiles point for SRMs instead of LRMS and streaks..
I am all for the return of close range combat instead of the LRM and poptart nonesense...

Well, my point was that 12s aren't dominated by what people call meta. Sure, on Alpne or Caustic I'd rather have long range pinpoint and LRMs, but same way on Forest Colony or River City I'd rather have SRMs and AC20s. The ShadowHawk with AC20 and Atlas with SRMs and LBXs are just as much 'meta' in 12s.

You yourself use light mechs that aren't exactly meta and bring home top damage most kills in a lot of matches we meet. Why? Because you know how to use your mech, you don't cower and hide behind your teammates backs, you don't idle behind rocks catching strikes with your head. I had a few games in my brawler DDC where my team faced like 8 DS's and 4 3D's and I still ended up top damage and kills, simply because I know how to find isolated targets and not get cored out before I even got into that 270m range.

A Victor with AC20 and SRMs kills a Victor with PPCs and AC5s up close every single time ... provided all hits register. It is already as it should be. The dominance of AC-PPC meta is a myth born by the kind of gameplay PUGs exhibit.

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

Also about face hugging doesn't work well with SRMS.. At 0M and problably a little more.. You take splash damage from your own SRMs.

My Atlas loves facehugging, so does my Centurion A or Jager A. Never noticed me taking splash damage from any of my weapons.

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

This is old but still happens more or less.. SRMs huge spread even at stone throwing range...
1v1.. AC40 is king of close range combat still.

Indeed, but we shall see if it'll change with SRM hit reg improvements (if any).

[M4NTiC0R3X]

[ShinVector]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

My Atlas loves facehugging, so does my Centurion A or Jager A. Never noticed me taking splash damage from any of my weapons.

Indeed, but we shall see if it'll change with SRM hit reg improvements (if any).

Lights and armour mgmt is fun.

It is not that META is a myth...
It is simply pinpoint damage at a single component of your choice at range...
If say Victor were ground bound... This might be different but JJ provides additional advantages...
Anyway all these pending nerfs... I hope they don't hurt lights more....

The spalsh damage part might be due to the shape of mechs... Probably can still happen to humaniods but happens more easily with platform type mechs like Stalkers, Cats and Jenners with their long noses.

Anyway.. Another week more.. let's see whether PGI comes through on the SRM fixes..

Edited by ShinVector, 09 June 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

It is simply pinpoint damage at a single component of your choice at range...

Just as I said, yes. Question is, how is SRMs different from ACs-PPCs, if spread allows to do damage into single component given one is close enough?

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

If say Victor were ground bound... This might be different but JJ provides additional advantages...

Nope. Remember CB? Gausscats were just humping hills instead of jumping over them. Without JJs, I suppose Firebrand ftw? And Banshee?

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

Anyway all these pending nerfs... I hope they don't hurt lights more....

I hope they do. Lights are OP. Its just everything else is even more OP, so it should be hurt even more.

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

The spalsh damage part might be due to the shape of mechs... Probably can still happen to humaniods but happens more easily with platform type mechs like Stalkers, Cats and Jenners with their long noses.

Well, if your own nose is actually right inside a mech you shoot at (thanks no collisions)... its hardly "splash" damage tho, more like direct damage.

ShinVector, on 09 June 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

Anyway.. Another week more.. let's see whether PGI comes through on the SRM fixes..

Wouldn't hold my breath tho. Lately the only patches by PGI that don't break anything are those that don't fix anything.

[Mcgral18]

PhoenixFire55, on 08 June 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

I just hope that SRM damage goes back to proper non-increased values now that hit detection will work ...
I'm not really holding my breath tho, we've heard that SRMs are fixed a few times already.

You mean 3 damage right?

Otherwise, SRMs need some guidance.