30 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

(By the way more curios about this than say mad.) So it seems to be that jump brawling is the red headed step child of MWO balancing. And the current changes make it more clear than ever. Lets look at total changes past and present.

1. Reduced jump jet fuel. This reduced the ability of jump brawlers to spread damage and make people miss shots. (Very little impact on jump snipers. And non on people jump jetting over rocks. )

2. Drastically reduce agility of premier jump brawlers Highlander and Victors. Victors for example no turning like at Atlas. Not like the low armor agile assault it is described as. (Very little impact on jump snipers. No impact on other jumping mechs.)

3. Adding jump jet heat. This will mean to be able to jump brawl you will have to have more heat sinks. This means you will have to have even less fire power. Put this in with the Victor for example already having to have huge engines to turn well and its a problem. (Very little impact on jump snipers. And almost non on people jump jetting over rocks. )

4. Fall damage. Not 100% clear on this yet. But if it does tend to constant leg damage for jump brawlers it is a problem. (But it does seem this will affect large jump brawlers and jump snipers more than other mechs.)

So it seems to be like they want non jump jet brawlers/hill humpers. And snipers but eh who cares about make sure the balance includes jump brawlers.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 07 June 2014 - 12:46 AM.

[FupDup]

Paul isn't a very good shot with his trusty Nerf Vulcan.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 06 June 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Paul isn't a very good shot with his trusty Nerf Vulcan.

Are you sure?

He's going to nerf *insert your favorite mech, weapon, or happiness here* *insert undefined length of time or soon™ here*.

Trust me, he knows what he's doing!

[Duncan Aravain]

So Paul is trying to make the game a bit more like the books and TT? A new vector for Paul, indeed.

[XX Sulla XX]

Funny thing is I was thinking about getting a Mad Cat. I figured it will be kinda like a Cataphract 3D agility wise but tougher and more fire power maybe. Then I thought if it is any good as a jump brawler some how it will get broken. And not sure if I want to pay $55 for a mech that gets nerfed in a month. I paid cash for every one of my Victors by the way so already has this experience before

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So Paul is trying to make the game a bit more like the books and TT? A new vector for Paul, indeed.

I have no problem with this. But the main goal I think should be having several viable play styles. It makes for a better game.

[FupDup]

XX Sulla XX, on 06 June 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

Funny thing is I was thinking about getting a Mad Cat. I figured it will be kinda like a Cataphract 3D agility wise but tougher and more fire power maybe. Then I thought if it is any good as a jump brawler some how it will get broken. And not sure if I want to pay $55 for a mech that gets nerfed in a month. I paid cash for every one of my Victors by the way so already has this experience before

Actually, since the Mad Cat has a huge engine it will probably be more agile than the Phract, barring any preemptive quirk nerfs to the Clanz.

[XX Sulla XX]

True probably will be. Probably be by far the best mech in the 70-80 ton range I like. Just not as one that can jump brawl. But maybe I am being pessimistic because I am tired.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Being unable to jump and take shots without heat concerns is a win for the PPC abusers because most who do have low slung arms built for shooting at the horizon not the air.

[crossflip]

So this hurts Wolverines, brawler Shadowhawks and Victors, aaand?

[XX Sulla XX]

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Being unable to jump and take shots without heat concerns is a win for the PPC abusers because most who do have low slung arms built for shooting at the horizon not the air.

Pin point damage at range is a win for the PPC abuser.

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So this hurts Wolverines, brawler Shadowhawks and Victors, aaand?

Highlanders, Griffins, quick draw iv-four, catapult C4, trebuchet loup de guerre any way you get the idea

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Jump brawling is fun.

Why would anyone want to nerf it?

:x

[XX Sulla XX]

More like they do not see it as valid and keep nerfing it as they are struggling to nerf jump snipers.

[Dymlos2003]

When I brawl, I don't jump all the way in the air. I do short jumps which others should be doing as well. The jump jet changes will hardly effect brawlers.

[Mordin Ashe]

I have the feeling that once Dire Wolf is released, there will be little worries left for jump snipers. Perhaps the introduction of new, heavily armed Mechs may switch the balance towards more brawling game? One can but hope.

[crossflip]

XX Sulla XX, on 06 June 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

Pin point damage at range is a win for the PPC abuser.


Highlanders, Griffins, quick draw iv-four, catapult C4, trebuchet loup de guerre any way you get the idea

So aside from highlanders, all the mechs that are already gimped have their gimp status further reinforced. A brawler griffin I see about as often as I do a non-meta victor.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

XX Sulla XX, on 06 June 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

More like they do not see it as valid and keep nerfing it as they are struggling to nerf jump snipers.

How can jump sniping be "invalid" when its been in every mechwarrior game ever?

.

[XX Sulla XX]

I said PGI sees jump brawing not jump sniping as invalid maybe. So they do not mind nerfing it to where it does not work in an attempt to nerf jump snipers.

[L Y N X]

Jumping leg damage from landing can be avoided by saving some jump fuel to feather the descend velocity on landing. This is per genre. It takes skill from practice to not use all the jump fuel on the way up.

If they need to do anything to Poptarts to lessen it then it is just slowing the JJ recharge, nothing more. I think its fine, but I dont have a dog in this fight, I use JJ on mechs that mount them but I also use ECM on the mechs that mount ECM. Strange I know...

[Koniving]

XX Sulla XX, on 06 June 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

2. Drastically reduce agility of premier jump brawlers Highlander and Victors. Victors for example no turning like at Atlas. Not like the low armor agile assault it is described as. (Very little impact on jump snipers. No impact on other jumping mechs.)

To mention it, Victor ground-based turning speeds are identical to the Awesome, and have never changed.

Their jump turning speed has, but this is because in the air it would turn faster than a Locust can on the ground while stationary.

Victor twisting speeds have changed.

Same with the Highlander, it's turning speed has not changed. Its jump turning speed has (this is actually true with all jump turning speeds).

The Highlander's twist speed got reduced. This is not the same as the turning speed.

To follow up with this, if you are a LASER and Missile jump brawler, you are completely unaffected by the jump shake mechanic. It's true. Just watch this guy.

For the entire battle it's jump-brawling. My tactic has not changed in the slightest. I actually find that Wolverines do it even better than the Griffin.

It's the PPC and autocannon user that is affected. And it's hard to distinguish jump sniping and jump brawling when you have identical weapons.

[Tahribator]

This is unfortunately true. Every change that affects poptarts also affect jump brawlers directly, since they use the same mechs and jumpjets. The only difference is the weapon systems being used and I think PGI has decided that weapon systems are in a good place and are focusing on other areas, which I appreciate.

That being said, I don't think people care about JJ brawlers as long as poptarts get nerfed. We'll see how this affects the king of JJ brawlers, the Highlanders but I doubt it will make a huge difference. A decent brawler is supposed to be heat efficient and have a lot of JJs after all, counteracting both nerfs.

Koniving, on 07 June 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

To follow up with this, if you are a LASER and Missile jump brawler, you are completely unaffected by the jump shake mechanic. It's true. Just watch this guy.

For the entire battle it's jump-brawling. My tactic has not changed in the slightest. I actually find that Wolverines do it even better than the Griffin.

Uh, that is brawling alright, but hardly representative of the "true" JJ brawlers with SRMs, ACs and Lasers. They require actual aiming rather than circling mechs in the air while spamming SSRM2s.